What are some affordable full-suspension mtn-x/jump frames? I'm not sure exactly how much I will be able to pay, but price is the number-one priority.
binary visions said:Neither of those options are particularly affordable, though.
Tully - would you consider a hardtail? It's pretty hard to beat the affordability of a good burly hardtail...
Without a doubt cheaper than those two options.RD said:They are thr cheapest mtn-x purpose built frames I can think of. Much less than a Tazer or Rail.
- $900 Supergo for the SX EnduroRD said:two best bang for the buck, and probably performance in general:
Iron Horse DW-Link MTN-X - $1,600
Specialized Enduro SX
A Rail is $1,400, less than the IH & MUCH stronger.RD said:They are thr cheapest mtn-x purpose built frames I can think of. Much less than a Tazer or Rail.
How about a Transition Preston FR? You arent going to find many cheaper new frames out there. Plus, its a really fun bike.Tully said:What are some affordable full-suspension mtn-x/jump frames? I'm not sure exactly how much I will be able to pay, but price is the number-one priority.
I'd be interested to know if you have any actual data/information to back that up. I don't know the weights on either frames but the Hollowpoint MT-X looks pretty frickin' burly.redical said:A Rail is $1,400, less than the IH & MUCH stronger.
redical said:- $900 Supergo for the SX Enduro
Duh, You can just by looking at it.binary visions said:I'd be interested to know if you have any actual data/information to back that up. I don't know the weights on either frames but the Hollowpoint MT-X looks pretty frickin' burly.
Yeah they seem to be dropping in price because of the VPP Tazers coming out in the fall. I am looking at possibly buying a new 2004 I found with an air shock for only $400!stoney98 said:Used bikes an option? You can find used tazers, etc in the $600 range.
WIth a name like "Binary Visions" you should use your eyeballs. : )binary visions said:I'd be interested to know if you have any actual data/information to back that up. I don't know the weights on either frames but the Hollowpoint MT-X looks pretty frickin' burly.
SPAM!RD said:Just a thought... An example of some used frames in great shape for good prices!
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89990
I am not sure if they do, I got the quote from an actual shop. But at that price, it is worth driving to one. If not, find the closest out of state shop, call up & talk to the manager. Pay with your card right there & then and have him ship it to you.RD said:Don't they only sell Specialized in-store only? I couldn't find the frame on tehir website.
If you are looking for a used bike I would consider something other than the Tazer. The Tazer was pretty much a race only bike and an had about a 1 season life span.stoney98 said:Used bikes an option? You can find used tazers, etc in the $600 range.
Especially one that looks as beat as his! hehehe!go-ride.com said:If you are looking for a used bike I would consider something other than the Tazer. The Tazer was pretty much a race only bike and an had about a 1 season life span.
Why do I think young grasshopper is going to get is hand smacked?redical said:WIth a name like "Binary Visions" you should use your eyeballs. : )
Seriously though, just compare the two frames. The rail is burly and all strength & $200 cheaper. The IH I wouldn't trust that those stays won't flex. They have had problems with their 2003 linkeages cracking their seattubes. Any engineer who makes such a blatant mistake sucks ass. Aren;t they taiwanese crap anyway? Can't compare to the quality & engineering of a Turner. No comparison, yet Turner cost less. I hear weight is about the same too. And the IH has too long of a chainstay to be nimple enough to corner & accelerate out of the gate & manual - all essentials for a MTX frame.
Bring it on!DRB said:Why do I think young grasshopper is going to get is hand smacked?
Compare the two frames, like, visually? Come on now. Don't gauge a frame by a simple glance at the tubing size. The comment about the chainstays flexing falls under the same category. You have no way of knowing the thickness of the tubing they've used or how stiff they are.redical said:WIth a name like "Binary Visions" you should use your eyeballs. : )
Seriously though, just compare the two frames. The rail is burly and all strength & $200 cheaper. The IH I wouldn't trust that those stays won't flex. They have had problems with their 2003 linkeages cracking their seattubes. Any engineer who makes such a blatant mistake sucks ass. Aren;t they taiwanese crap anyway? Can't compare to the quality & engineering of a Turner. No comparison, yet Turner cost less. I hear weight is about the same too. And the IH has too long of a chainstay to be nimple enough to corner & accelerate out of the gate & manual - all essentials for a MTX frame.
binary visions said:Compare the two frames, like, visually? Come on now. Don't gauge a frame by a simple glance at the tubing size. The comment about the chainstays flexing falls under the same category. You have no way of knowing the thickness of the tubing they've used or how stiff they are.
I'll leave the linkages comment alone. There was a problem, they fixed it. That doesn't mean they suck ass, it means they made a mistake.
They are Taiwanese yes, but don't lump yourself into that category of the ignorant masses who assume anything made in the US is of higher quality than overseas. Taiwan turns out some very, very high quality stuff, and America turns out plenty of crap.
Chainstay preferences are all over the board with riders. Some people like the short chainstays, some like longer ones.. That's not a frame "fault", simply your preference.
I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm simply curious if there's valid information to back up the claim of it being a lot burlier..?
Sez you. And, oh wise silverback Gorilla, you won't be tossed off for spamming? I'm no Engineer or hype marketing fool like lots of these guys on here, but I have many many years of race experience in cycling as well as dirt jumping. Consumers have valid opinions too. Time to take back the power from the hype-meisters and give it to the consumers who get stuck with badly designed crap. Once again Rail vs MTX, not even a strength comparison. And what're you, the forum nazi? Freedom of speach, man. You are just pissed nobody wants your beaten up Taz. :dancing:stoney98 said:Hey Redical,
Here's a few ideas for ya.
1. Don't slander older monkey's. We've been here longer and have built up our reputations by demonstrating our knowledge and integrity (for sales).
2. Don't spout about what you don't know. Can you do FEA? Guess what, DW can and DOES on all the frames he designs this includes IH MTx, DH, HT and Evil frames. Bet you didn't know that.
3. There's no need to be an ass.
4. Taiwanese frames can be just as strong if not stronger then American made frames. The same certifications are used by Taiwanese and US welders to prove a level of equality. And you know what, frame builders in factories like giant and pacific (at least the highend divisions) are master welders most times. Never underestimate a bike based on it's local of build. I'd be more skeptical of those who engineered it.
5. Put the numbers from the IH next to those for the Turner, and you know what, they're VERY similar.
You might know alot amongst your group of friends, however this board is populated with quite a few engineers, pro racers, team managers, bike industry reps, Bike designers, and and alot of other who know a LOT more than you. Try being humble and keeping your flames down, else you'll get the boot.
-Stone
redical said:If they have to use ultra-thick tubing to compensate for narrow tubing, you get taxed with weight - and you don't resolve flex issues. WHy do 99% of the frames use large diameter, paper thin tubing?
"They made a mistake" is a lame ass excuse. They are guilty of the same crap tons of these software developers are guilty of - putting out product before it is ready to make quick buck & save development money. What about the poor schmuck who has laid out his hard earned bucks for that mistake?
US made is not an automatic high qual, you're right. But when you are talking about a reputable company like Turner, you know that their quality is what has kept their small comapny is biz for so long in the US - the cost of manufacturing in US is so high that it becomes darwinian survival of the fittest. Either fittest because of the quality of the product or fittest because you have gobbled up the comp (hahahaha). Taiwan can be okay if you have experienced engineers who know what they are doing and don't make msitakes. Otherwise, I guess that the cheap price of manufacturing there will make up for the fact that you will be warrantying out tons of those frames in the future.
Yeah, people have personal preferences, but for MTX, you need those geo benefits that give you the best acceleration. It is basically big bike bmx. All about acceleration, bike handling, and more acceleration. Especially US MTX tracks at the moment. It is not true downhill where longer bike gives the stability you need to keep from killing yourself. Oh yeah, and the 68 head angle is also a bit slow for these tracks. 68 would have put you over the first berm at Sea Otter. :dancing:
No fighting offense taken, dude. I am just saying that you only need to look at the two frames & you will see that there is no comparison as far as strength. Rail is probably one of the strongest MTX-specific frames on the market - it is overbuilt like a downhiller. Anyway, I am done. My fingers ouchy now! :mumble:
stoney98 said:Hey Redical,
Here's a few ideas for ya.
1. Don't slander older monkey's. We've been here longer and have built up our reputations by demonstrating our knowledge and integrity (for sales).
2. Don't spout about what you don't know. Can you do FEA? Guess what, DW can and DOES on all the frames he designs this includes IH MTx, DH, HT and Evil frames. Bet you didn't know that.
3. There's no need to be an ass.
4. Taiwanese frames can be just as strong if not stronger then American made frames. The same certifications are used by Taiwanese and US welders to prove a level of equality. And you know what, frame builders in factories like giant and pacific (at least the highend divisions) are master welders most times. Never underestimate a bike based on it's local of build. I'd be more skeptical of those who engineered it.
5. Put the numbers from the IH next to those for the Turner, and you know what, they're VERY similar.
You might know alot amongst your group of friends, however this board is populated with quite a few engineers, pro racers, team managers, bike industry reps, Bike designers, and and alot of other who know a LOT more than you. Try being humble and keeping your flames down, else you'll get the boot.
-Stone
From the posts, he hasn't ridden either, otherwise I would have expected some "When I rode this, it..." comments.ssaddict said:What did you honeslty think when you road the Hollowpoint MTX bike? Cause I have no idea what flex your talking about, but then again I only weight 165. But tossing it around and sprinting on it felt damn good and I can't wait to get one.
The Rail is actually less - $1,400 compared to $1,600 for the IH. Eric Carter designed the Rail & along with Troy Lee, "invented" the sport of organized MTX. I'd put my money on his thoughts as far as MTX designs. He rode what he designed. Where was all that thinking you are talking about on the 2003 IH Hollowpoints?RD said:Don't judge a book by it's cover. Iron Horse frames may cost a lot less than their Turner counterparts but they may have had much more extensive design and development work done to them. DW implements some of the best thinking in the bike "industry" and any other for that matter in the work he does for Iron Horse and other companies.
And which have you ridden that you so passionately defend the bike?binary visions said:From the posts, he hasn't ridden either, otherwise I would have expected some "When I rode this, it..." comments.
redical, Taiwan didn't produce the frame, they just welded the tubes and machined the parts, and you can get just as high quality stuff from them as in the US, with just as tight QC. I have no idea if the quality level of fabrication is near Turner's, but "it's made in Taiwan" shouldn't even enter into this discussion.
The frame was designed in the good old US-of-A, and the suspension at least was designed by a guy on this board, DW, who I've not seen an ignorant or poorly thought out product from, so keep your flaming about that to a minimum. You have no idea what in the creation/production process might have happened to cause that. And the "poor guys" who laid out their hard earned money got a warrenty, just like they should have. Their hard earned money stayed right where it should - in their pockets.
Lots of comments but it seems like you haven't ridden one so how can you feel so passionatly about it? You don't know if it flexes, or if the geometry ends up working well - you only know your current preferences and have dismissed the frame with a cursory glance as flexy and poorly fabricated.
There's a big difference between you arguing that a bike is crap when you've never ridden it and really don't know whether or not it is crap, and me refuting your unfounded assumptions with facts...redical said:And which have you ridden that you so passionately defend the bike?
stoney98 said:Just gonna point this out, but EC actually rides an XCE, not a Rail.
Don't buy into the hype.
I threw some facts at ya as far as specs. You're the one that sounds like a groupie following the herd.binary visions said:There's a big difference between you arguing that a bike is crap when you've never ridden it and really don't know whether or not it is crap, and me refuting your unfounded assumptions with facts...