[$tinkle]

I see a push for many more NPs and PAs. Residency programs are pretty much maxed out for MDs, and I don't see them increasing in size to crank out a corresponding increased number of attendings, certainly not in primary care.

related: Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — In the Inland Empire, an economically depressed region in Southern California, President Obama’s health care law is expected to extend insurance coverage to more than 300,000 people by 2014. But coverage will not necessarily translate into care: Local health experts doubt there will be enough doctors to meet the area’s needs. There are not enough now.

Other places around the country, including the Mississippi Delta, Detroit and suburban Phoenix, face similar problems. The Association of American Medical Colleges estimates that in 2015 the country will have 62,900 fewer doctors than needed. And that number will more than double by 2025, as the expansion of insurance coverage and the aging of baby boomers drive up demand for care. Even without the health care law, the shortfall of doctors in 2025 would still exceed 100,000.

Health experts, including many who support the law, say there is little that the government or the medical profession will be able to do to close the gap by 2014, when the law begins extending coverage to about 30 million Americans. It typically takes a decade to train a doctor.

“We have a shortage of every kind of doctor, except for plastic surgeons and dermatologists,” said Dr. G. Richard Olds, the dean of the new medical school at the University of California, Riverside, founded in part to address the region’s doctor shortage. “We’ll have a 5,000-physician shortage in 10 years, no matter what anybody does.”

Experts describe a doctor shortage as an “invisible problem.” Patients still get care, but the process is often slow and difficult. In Riverside, it has left residents driving long distances to doctors, languishing on waiting lists, overusing emergency rooms and even forgoing care.

“It results in delayed care and higher levels of acuity,” said Dustin Corcoran, the chief executive of the California Medical Association, which represents 35,000 physicians. People “access the health care system through the emergency department, rather than establishing a relationship with a primary care physician who might keep them from getting sicker.”

In the Inland Empire, encompassing the counties of Riverside and San Bernardino, the shortage of doctors is already severe. The population of Riverside County swelled 42 percent in the 2000s, gaining more than 644,000 people. It has continued to grow despite the collapse of one of the country’s biggest property bubbles and a jobless rate of 11.8 percent in the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario metro area.

But the growth in the number of physicians has lagged, in no small part because the area has trouble attracting doctors, who might make more money and prefer living in nearby Orange County or Los Angeles.

so will the gov't subsidize incomes in the same manner they subsidize residency for alaskans? but this would then run the risk of inappropriately meddle in the free market, no?

riverside: too cheap to work
orange co: too expensive to live

 

[jimmydean]

related: Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Lawso will the gov't subsidize incomes in the same manner they subsidize residency for alaskans? but this would then run the risk of inappropriately meddle in the free market, no?

riverside: too cheap to work
orange co: too expensive to live

I would think it might get like teachers in Silicon Valley. Intel subsidized housing for doctors, interesting.

 

[narlus]

pelvic floor laxity

sounds like a good name for a grindcore band.

 

[Toshi]

related: Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Lawso will the gov't subsidize incomes in the same manner they subsidize residency for alaskans? but this would then run the risk of inappropriately meddle in the free market, no?

riverside: too cheap to work
orange co: too expensive to live

They already do just that, complementing the market forces leading to, say, lower salaries in Manhattan and higher salaries in Nebraska:

http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/loanrepayment/
http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/shortage/

 

[limitedslip]

I can see the motivation of firemen and police officers to risk their lives for minimum wage...teachers are next. R-Money will be hard as a rock...

I dunno about firemen, but cops don't really risk their lives any more than we all do. That said, you don't want the kind of cops that would work for min wage. Then you'd really only get farvas that are doing it for the power.

 

[JohnE]

I dunno about firemen, but cops don't really risk their lives any more than we all do. That said, you don't want the kind of cops that would work for min wage. Then you'd really only get farvas that are doing it for the power.

Being that I have spent the majority of my adult life in law enforcement, dealing with moronic ideas like the first, I will let it slide, but I would agree wholeheartedly on the second.

 

[norbar]

I dunno about firemen, but cops don't really risk their lives any more than we all do. That said, you don't want the kind of cops that would work for min wage. Then you'd really only get farvas that are doing it for the power.

You are speaking of Canadian police force of course.


As for min. wage I agree. Low policemen pay means outside of a few people who do it for ideals (very few) you have unmotivated, stupid, corrupt cops. Visit Poland and try it. It got better with the corruption but they are as little motivated as possible.



As for $tinkies doctors complaining about pay cuts - screw them. Aren't high medical costs instead of insurance companies the real reason why the healthcare costs are stupid high acording to some recent studies. I understand they require skill but talk about overblown pay.

 

[Toshi]

As for $tinkies doctors complaining about pay cuts - screw them. Aren't high medical costs instead of insurance companies the real reason why the healthcare costs are stupid high acording to some recent studies. I understand they require skill but talk about overblown pay.

Study citation please. Also, please clarify whether "high medical costs" are due to delivery of excess care, delivery of lots of needed care due to the unhealthy state of the US populace, delivery of an acceptable amount of care at unacceptable per-unit costs, overutilization of selective procedures due to our antiquated fee-for-service payment model, or perhaps high overall costs due to private insurers having much higher administrative overhead (and profit-padding) than central payers such as Medicare/aid.

 

[jimmydean]

...high overall costs due to private insurers having much higher administrative overhead (and profit-padding) than central payers such as Medicare/aid.

This.

When I worked at Plexis (claims processing software for medical insurance), I was amazed at how many hands were in the cookie jar when one person goes to one doctor for something simple. Doctor gets paid, the facility where the visit happens gets paid, the third party administrator that oversees the facilities gets paid, insurance gets paid...

 

[JohnE]

But socialized medicine will kill this company...I mean country!

 

[limitedslip]

Being that I have spent the majority of my adult life in law enforcement, dealing with moronic ideas like the first, I will let it slide, but I would agree wholeheartedly on the second.

This year the homicide rate for police is 5.25 per 100,000, and the population homicide rate is 4.8 per 100,000. Granted, it's been a good year for cops, but it's not like they are soldiers. Police have always fared better than cab drivers, for instance.

As far as min wage for cops, I knew a guy who did some interviewing for a position in his department. 15,000 applications for 3 open spots, 1 of the 3 spots went unfilled. There are plenty of applicants, but almost none are actually qualified. Reduce the pay and those very few worthy applicants won't be there. (I realize no one has actually taken the pro-min wage for cops position in this thread, just thought that was interesting)

 

[JohnE]

This year the homicide rate for police is 5.25 per 100,000, and the population homicide rate is 4.8 per 100,000. Granted, it's been a good year for cops, but it's not like they are soldiers. Police have always fared better than cab drivers, for instance.

As far as min wage for cops, I knew a guy who did some interviewing for a position in his department. 15,000 applications for 3 open spots, 1 of the 3 spots went unfilled. There are plenty of applicants, but almost none are actually qualified. Reduce the pay and those very few worthy applicants won't be there. (I realize no one has actually taken the pro-min wage for cops position in this thread, just thought that was interesting)

Being that I have spent the majority of my adult life in military law enforcement, dealing with moronic ideas like the first, I will let it slide, but I would agree wholeheartedly on the second.

That being said, I have no desire to be acivilian cop anymore (Spent 4 years doing that...)...when I retire I am probably going into another occupation that R-Money hates, teaching.

 

[norbar]

Study citation please. Also, please clarify whether "high medical costs" are due to delivery of excess care, delivery of lots of needed care due to the unhealthy state of the US populace, delivery of an acceptable amount of care at unacceptable per-unit costs, overutilization of selective procedures due to our antiquated fee-for-service payment model, or perhaps high overall costs due to private insurers having much higher administrative overhead (and profit-padding) than central payers such as Medicare/aid.

Sorry for talking without citation. Will try to look it up fast. Need to lower my late after work post because my brain apparently works like ****.

 

[limitedslip]

Being that I have spent the majority of my adult life in military law enforcement, dealing with moronic ideas like the first, I will let it slide, but I would agree wholeheartedly on the second.

That being said, I have no desire to be acivilian cop anymore (Spent 4 years doing that...)...when I retire I am probably going into another occupation that R-Money hates, teaching.

Those aren't ideas, those are facts

 

[Silver]

Being that I have spent the majority of my adult life in military law enforcement, dealing with moronic ideas like the first, I will let it slide, but I would agree wholeheartedly on the second.

That being said, I have no desire to be acivilian cop anymore (Spent 4 years doing that...)...when I retire I am probably going into another occupation that R-Money hates, teaching.

By moronic ideas, you mean statistics?

The last time I looked into it, the most dangerous part of being a police officer was driving. Now sure, that's dangerous. So is being an outside salesman.

If we're going to do straight emotions, I can go directly to the insults and save us both some time...

 

[JohnE]

I dunno about firemen, but cops don't really risk their lives any more than we all do. That said, you don't want the kind of cops that would work for min wage. Then you'd really only get farvas that are doing it for the power.

Yeah, okay douchebag...I will remember that the next time I respond to a complaint about some steroid fueled Special Operator who is freaking out because his wife was shagging some pogue while he wa ass deep in Afghanistan...not risking my life or my patrolmens at all. Piss off. And Silver, you too can **** off, go serve someone other than your self before you mock anyone elses professions.

Fact is you will die someday...somehow, someway. Some of us choose to live first. Limited Slip, you can piss up a rope. I love preserving your freedom to be a douchebag.

 

[limitedslip]

I said police, not soldiers

edit: removed snark

 

[JohnE]

So since you have moved away, who is protecting you from anarchists, thugs, thieves, robbers and miscreants? Orwell was right, imho...

 

[JohnE]

This is not to say there are no Farvas in police work, the unfortunate truth is that there are. I left a civilian PD because of them and returned to the military...

 

[limitedslip]

I think I misunderstood your posts. My point is that domestic policing in the US is not really life threatening.

 

[Silver]

Silver, you too can **** off, go serve someone other than your self before you mock anyone elses professions.

Like you do my former profession of construction worker when you want your dick sucked extra hard because "It's dangerous!" even though the stats say that it's a little bit more dangerous than most jobs and not nearly as dangerous as some? Or farmers, fisherman, loggers, truck drives, garbagemen...all lives not worth spit, because they ain't got a badge, amirite?

It's odd you'd take offense at a completely factual statement. You're probably not interested, but you know you can google the numbers, right?