manitou '04 slider plus?

Captain Crunch · Jun 21, 2004

That fork is incompatible with your bike. Also, your RM handle is incompatible with your bike as well.

Threepointtwo · Jun 21, 2004

Not sure about the incompatability (the DHR is a 1 1/8" isn't it?) but the fork is a good one. I have been running one on my DH9 this season and I like it. It is relatively light, stiff, and well damped. The SPV is just icing on the cake. I don't do any climbing but I like the SPV while sprinting. I don't know how much energy is actually wasted in the fork while pedalling but psychologically, it gives you an advantage. Maintenance has been a non-issue. Just squirt some lube in the micro lube ports and you're good to go.

Threepointtwo · Jun 22, 2004

I weigh 175 and the stock springs and oil are fine for me. The sag is just right and I don't bottom. There is such a wide range of damping with the SPV setup that I don't know that playing with the oil will be necessary. Just get the right springs and then tune with what's there.

Threepointtwo · Jun 22, 2004

I'm not sure what the right size is for your bike. I ride a DH9 and use a small. You'll have to ask Manitou or your bike shop.

punkassean · Jun 22, 2004

Threepointtwo said:
Maintenance has been a non-issue. Just squirt some lube in the micro lube ports and you're good to go.

ummm dood...The micro lube ports on Shermans were just there in case Manitou wanted to use micro lube for these forks but in th end they didn't...so they don't actually function. Hence they are powder coated right over the ports from the factory. So I guess the micro lube is another psychological advantage as well like SPV as you mentioned...

FWIW I like my Sherman Slider a lot but I run the SPV with such low pressure that it does nothing, otherwise the fork is too firm and inactive.

punkassean · Jun 22, 2004

Konabiker7 said:
cool, i weigh like 140lbs so same as u basically. i went to order the fork 2day and they asked me if i wanted short or long... i guess long right?

all that means is a drop crown (long) or flat crown (short). I would get the drop crown since the Sherman is a short fork to begin with. That way you can adjust the geometry by sliding the stanchions down in the crowns. That is what I had to do on my Stinky to get the geometry right with my Sherman+. Or if your headtube is more than 5" or so you will most likely need the long anyway.

Matt D · Jun 22, 2004

i ordered the large for my DH9 and got two crowns for some reason. Kind cool eh?

punkassean · Jun 22, 2004

did you get two different crowns or two drop crowns?

bighitfsr · Jun 22, 2004

I'm also in the market for new forks.
I narrowed my search down to the slider plus, 888R and avalanche DHF8ti and posted several times about these forks.

I've since crossed the slider plus off my list for a couple of reasons:

- from the reviews/post I've read it seems the fork is harsher over small stuff than similar non-SPV forks (even with SPV pressure set to the absolute minimum). From the extensive posting and searching I've done it seems that the 888R has significantly better small bump compliance than the slider plus.

- there is a rumour floating around that the 04 SPV in shermans and dorados has been pretty badly executed (the tolerances of the dampers components are supposedly responsible for this). 04 SPV dorados are getting upgraded to the 05 SPV internals as the 04 has some sort of issue???

- tire clearce is tight, probably doesnt fit my favorite tire the michy comp32.
Might not be an issue for you, it is for me.

I've read numerous posts from racers who switched our their 03 dorados for 04 sliders for the lighter weight, better torsional stiffness and SPV who are regretting the decision. I would definitely need to rip-up a serious DH course at speed on a slider plus to make a decision after what I've read about the fork.

The bottom line is the performance of the damper is pretty questionable.
Some people rave about it others think is pretty average.
I would personally not touch it without first trying one out at full speed on a DH run (I cant get a test so its off my list).

punkassean · Jun 23, 2004

At speed the Slider is great, it gobbles bumps and dips. It is only the very small frequency stuff that gets "overlooked" but with the SPV at minimum pressure it is not bad. However yes the 888R is much more buttery start to finish. I also doubt if a 2.8 Michi will fit but a 2.5-2.7 Maxxis will fit fine (I am running 2.5 Timberwolf's with plenty of clearance) As far as the price, it is for sure the best bet. All in all I really like mine but an 888R would be nice!

MikeD · Jun 23, 2004

2.8 micchie fits on my 521s with plenty to spare.

evilbob · Jun 23, 2004

punkassean said:
ummm dood...The micro lube ports on Shermans were just there in case Manitou wanted to use micro lube for these forks but in th end they didn't...so they don't actually function. Hence they are powder coated right over the ports from the factory. So I guess the micro lube is another psychological advantage as well like SPV as you mentioned...
QUOTE]

Hhhmmm, mine aren't powder coated right over the ports? They also except micro lube every other week........not much.......just enough to keep the upper bushing and seal lubed......especially needed on the left leg. How is this not functioning?

Jm_ · Jun 23, 2004

i think that manitou is shooting themselves in the foot by not having an TPC+ option for all of the sherman forks (that are now SPV).

Silver · Jun 23, 2004

The SPV is a bit funny. It feels weird when you aren't moving and doing the parking lot test, but once I start rolling I forget it's there and the fork just seems to work. It's not Marzocchi plush over small bumps, but I didn't think that the TPC+ Breakout was either.

Jeremy R · Jun 23, 2004

Jm_ said:
i think that manitou is shooting themselves in the foot by not having an TPC+ option for all of the sherman forks (that are now SPV).

Because the SPV is better and way more adjustable. I have owned both.
That said, it still does not compare at all to the damping in a real oil bath
like the 888, but then again there is a nice size price difference between those two as well.

Garrett · Jun 23, 2004

bighitfsr said:
I'm also in the market for new forks.
I narrowed my search down to the slider plus, 888R and avalanche DHF8ti and posted several times about these forks.

I've since crossed the slider plus off my list for a couple of reasons:

- from the reviews/post I've read it seems the fork is harsher over small stuff than similar non-SPV forks (even with SPV pressure set to the absolute minimum). From the extensive posting and searching I've done it seems that the 888R has significantly better small bump compliance than the slider plus.

- there is a rumour floating around that the 04 SPV in shermans and dorados has been pretty badly executed (the tolerances of the dampers components are supposedly responsible for this). 04 SPV dorados are getting upgraded to the 05 SPV internals as the 04 has some sort of issue???

- tire clearce is tight, probably doesnt fit my favorite tire the michy comp32.
Might not be an issue for you, it is for me.

I've read numerous posts from racers who switched our their 03 dorados for 04 sliders for the lighter weight, better torsional stiffness and SPV who are regretting the decision. I would definitely need to rip-up a serious DH course at speed on a slider plus to make a decision after what I've read about the fork.

The bottom line is the performance of the damper is pretty questionable.
Some people rave about it others think is pretty average.
I would personally not touch it without first trying one out at full speed on a DH run (I cant get a test so its off my list).

- First of all I disagree about the slider+ being harsh on small bumps. When set up properly I think it feels just as plush as a marzocchi. At first when I got mine a few weeks ago I thought the same thing. However, after one ride I realized that the fork came with the compression adjuster turned all the way up. After a little adjustment it feels like butter over everything.

- I've heard the same rumor about the tolerances, but mine doesn't seem to have that problem so I'm not going to complain and assume that it's just a rumor.

- I happen to be one of those people who switched from an '03 dorado to the slider+. So far I've been really impressed with the slider and definetly like it a lot more than my beat up dorado. The slider is definetly a lot stiffer than the dorado and I think the spv feels a lot better than the tpc. With the spv the front wheel feels like it's glued to the ground and definetly feels really well matched to the avalanche shock I have.

xy9ine · Jun 23, 2004

evilbob said:
Hhhmmm, mine aren't powder coated right over the ports? They also except micro lube every other week........not much.......just enough to keep the upper bushing and seal lubed......especially needed on the left leg. How is this not functioning?

wierd. you must have some early off-spec unit; mine, as well as every other slider i've seen has superfluous / non-functioning grease ports - ie, just little nubs with no holes to the inside...

punkassean · Jun 23, 2004

Garrett said:
However, after one ride I realized that the fork came with the compression adjuster turned all the way up. After a little adjustment it feels like butter over everything.

When you say "compression adjuster" do you mean the SPV chamber size adjustment? Because the fork doesn't have a true "compression" adjustment...

I like mine too but to say it is as smooth as an 888R is just not true...

punkassean · Jun 23, 2004

evilbob said:
Hhhmmm, mine aren't powder coated right over the ports? They also except micro lube every other week........not much.......just enough to keep the upper bushing and seal lubed......especially needed on the left leg. How is this not functioning?

I will re-iterate, every single Sherman I have ever seen inc. the two I have owned were non functioning...I asked Manitou about it and they told me that they put it in the casting/forging JIC because if they decided to run micro lube another casting would cost a fortune and if they didn't decide to run it, it's not hurting anything. I would be curios to see a pic of your ports...Even first year Shermans had the ports coated over, that's how Icame to find out. One of the guys at my shop got a firefly and I tried to use a sharpened spoke to pick out the paint to inject some lube. That's when I called Manitou and got the story...I wish mine had functioning ports however because I think it would help with the sticky initial travel problem. I have been using a drop or two of Tri-Flow on the dust wiper instead...

Jm_ · Jun 23, 2004

Jeremy R said:
Because the SPV is better and way more adjustable. I have owned both.
That said, it still does not compare at all to the damping in a real oil bath
like the 888, but then again there is a nice size price difference between those two as well.

Well I haven't ridden an SPV fork, but I have ridden TPC+ forks (in addition to countless other kinds). I believe that TPC+ is a darn good damping system, and that it can work awesome with an oil bath (or semi oil bath).

I think that SPV has merit for people wanting a little more efficiancy(in forward motion) than others, but I think that all-out suspension performance will still be wanted by other people, and that's why TPC+ as an "option" would be nice. Any restriction in movement (pedaling platform, etc) is going to impact the suspension, maybe a little bit, but its a noticable amount as verified by many people here (and myself riding spv rear shocks).

Untill someone makes a fork or rear shock (they are close supposedly) that is adjustable to "zero" pedaling platform or SPV effect, I think that a TPC+ fork still has merit. On every SPV shock that i've tried, the "no platform" setting does not feel anywhere as good as a shock that doesn't have a platform, suspension wise.

evilbob · Jun 23, 2004

punkassean said:
I would be curios to see a pic of your ports...QUOTE]

I will try to remember to get a pic up later when I get home from work.........I'm curious now why mine has them?

Jeremy R · Jun 23, 2004

Jm_ said:
Well I haven't ridden an SPV fork, but I have ridden TPC+ forks (in addition to countless other kinds). I believe that TPC+ is a darn good damping system, and that it can work awesome with an oil bath (or semi oil bath).

I think that SPV has merit for people wanting a little more efficiancy(in forward motion) than others, but I think that all-out suspension performance will still be wanted by other people, and that's why TPC+ as an "option" would be nice. Any restriction in movement (pedaling platform, etc) is going to impact the suspension, maybe a little bit, but its a noticable amount as verified by many people here (and myself riding spv rear shocks).

Untill someone makes a fork or rear shock (they are close supposedly) that is adjustable to "zero" pedaling platform or SPV effect, I think that a TPC+ fork still has merit. On every SPV shock that i've tried, the "no platform" setting does not feel anywhere as good as a shock that doesn't have a platform, suspension wise.

Yeah, I was referring to the overall damping improvement in SPV compared to TPC+. It would have been nice to set it at "zero" for sure, if it would have made it suck up the small stuff better which I can only assume it would.
But on the big and medium size sharp hits I think the SPV really outshines the old TPC+, and the SPV did not really even bother me enough to notice any extra arm pump or anything from the lack of small bump response. It was not until I rode the 888, when I realized it just made all that other stuff just seem downright choppy.

profro · Jun 23, 2004

Comparing my SPV rear shock to my Avalanche rear shock, the SPV certainly takes away the small bump sensetivity.

Garrett · Jun 23, 2004

punkassean said:
When you say "compression adjuster" do you mean the SPV chamber size adjustment? Because the fork doesn't have a true "compression" adjustment...

I like mine too but to say it is as smooth as an 888R is just not true...

Really? I thought the knob on the bottom of the fork was the compression adjuster. Well if not, it stilll made the fork feel a ton better when I turned out.

I didn't really say that it was as smooth as a 888R...I just said marzocchi fork. I haven't riden a 888, so I can't really say whether it's smoother or not... but it does feel smoother than the z1 I had on my hardtail until I broke that in half dj'ing :mad:

and the monster t I used to have.

punkassean · Jun 23, 2004

That's the rebound adjuster that really doesn't work to much anyway...Maybe it just made it more lively feeling due to the faster rebound...

Turley · Jun 23, 2004

mine felt awesome out of the box then stiffened up. Sent them in for warrenty and they have come back alot better. Still unsure whether I will go to 03 dorado's though as they still ain't as "super plush" as I would like.

MikeD · Jun 23, 2004

321 might be pushing the clearance...I wonder if anyone's tried that here on the board.

evilbob · Jun 24, 2004

Please excuse the picture quality and dirt, just got back from a ride. Anyway this is a pic of the micro lube port on the back of the left leg on my slider +. I was able to check out 3 others on my ride 2 of which my micro lube grease gun was able to get grease into.

MikeD · Jun 24, 2004

That's bizarre. Every Sherman I've seen has vestigal lube ports. Is there an actual zerk fitting there, or just a hole?

In any case, isn't the semi-bath supposed to use oil to lube and not grease??

Threepointtwo · Jun 24, 2004

Mine has usable ports as far as I can tell. I shoot grease in and cycle the fork - the sliders have a nice lube sheen.

evilbob · Jun 24, 2004

MikeD said:
That's bizarre. Every Sherman I've seen has vestigal lube ports. Is there an actual zerk fitting there, or just a hole?

In any case, isn't the semi-bath supposed to use oil to lube and not grease??

Actual fitting, besides if it was just a hole things would squirt back out under compression load.

Yes the semi-bath uses oil. It splashes the bottom of the seal and bushings, but when setting for awhile that area gets dry and sticky. Even when being ridden allot I don't think the semi-bath works for the left leg. You would need to put allot of oil in the empty left leg to get it to splash up enough to lube well.

bighitfsr · Jun 24, 2004

The fork still relies on grease to lube the upper bushings and seals (I own an 03 firefly).
The fork feels a whole lot smoother if you use the new golden prep-m when you rebuild it.
If you use a thicker lube such a slick honey you can feel a little bit of a difference.
I think this is another aspect where the dorado is better as being an inverted design the oil bath is sitting where its needed right on top of the seals.

Anyway this thread definitely confirms my concerns that:

1) small bump sensitivity is not as good as a non-spv fork

2) there is a possible the issue with the tolerances of the actual SPV damper: so many mixxed opions on the performance of the damper suggests to me that something funky and inconsistant is going on with the dampers themselves.

I'm not bashing the SPV shermans they still have better damping than boxxers and are way lighter than anything marzocchi has on offer. I dont think there is any better choice at the price point of the slider plus. Anyway I'm gonna spend the extra an get a fork that has no compromise small bump compliance (888R or DHFti).

manitou '04 slider plus?

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