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Initial thoughts on Socom vs. Sunday

Bikerpunk241

Bikerpunk241

Monkey
Sep 28, 2001
765
0
Seeing as I was curious, and I got a bunch of people asking me how the socom was compared to the sunday, here are my initial thoughts on the bike.

The setups of the two bikes are:
2006 Sunday
Fox DHX 5.0 with 350 steel spring full boost and 90 psi.
Boxxer team with soft spring
Maxxis High Roller 26 x 2.5 Super tacky tires

2007 Socom
Fox DHX 5.0 with 350 Steel Spring 2 of 3 turns in on boost, 90 psi.
Boxxer Team with stock (medium) spring
Maxxis Minion DHF 26 x 2.5 3c tires

Jumping on the Socom, it immediately feels steeper and taller than the Sunday. However, with a slightly stiffer front end, it is possible to slack out the socom to be equivalent in head angle to the Sunday. Even with 35% sag on the socom, the Sunday sits a little bit lower to the ground.

Pedaling: When I first jumped on the socom, I was thinking, oh, another DH bike, won't pedal all that great. Even with the efficiency of the DW Link, the Sunday kinda feels like a pig pedaling around the parking lot (not uncommon for a DH bike. Riding around town, the Socom felt more like an xc bike. It felt like I was pedaling a short travel xc bike around, rather than 8" of fun.

Rocks: While both bikes handle rockgardens stupendously, you must hold your body in completely different positions. The slacker sunday is a little more forgiving when you plow into bigger rocks. The Socom is just as at home on this terrain though, just lean back and let the rear handle it.

Jumping: It's hard to compare the two, but to me, there wasn't a glaring difference between the two. The Socom feels a little bit more nimble and ready to jump, while the sunday feels like it wants to just stay on the ground and just eat the lip like it's a little bump in the road.

Cornering: This one is the toughest to judge as the tire selections are completely different. Both bikes like for you to be much farther forward to keep the traction, but there is a fine line, to far, and you'll loose the rear end. The Socom feels a little more consistant while in the midst of a drift, though that could be the tires.

I don't have any high speed time on the Socom yet, but I'll keep it updated. Thus far, the on;y complaint I have is cornering, I have a tendency to press my outer leg into the frame, and in doing this, I put the back of my knee in the path of the swing arm. All in all, I would jump on either of these two bikes without a second thought.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
thanks for the review, i love it when people throw these comparisons up, more people need to start doing them.
 
bent^biker

bent^biker

Turbo Monkey
Feb 22, 2006
1,958
0
pdx
thats a really sweet (read informative) writeup. word to being in boulder, I'm prolly gonna go to school there as my sis works at NIST and I hear the m.e. program is good. you buddies with lee?
 
Bikerpunk241

Bikerpunk241

Monkey
Sep 28, 2001
765
0
bent^biker said:
thats a really sweet (read informative) writeup. word to being in boulder, I'm prolly gonna go to school there as my sis works at NIST and I hear the m.e. program is good. you buddies with lee?
Click to expand...
Yeah, Lee's a good guy, fun to ride with.....
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
One thing I noticed with the setups that you have is that in my experience, I find that the minions roll a lot faster in hard pack and parking lots than the High rollers. I'd be interested to see the comparison with identical tires and pressure in a back to back ride.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,105
6,047
borcester rhymes
Yeah, if you've got the parts, swap em over and try to be as scientific as possible. tire/pressure and even rim choice can make a huge difference...
 
ATOMICFIREBALL

ATOMICFIREBALL

DISARMED IN A BATTLE OF WITS
May 26, 2004
1,354
0
Tennessee
Nice review,i was wondering between those two bikes .

Sam Hills' bike looks real lightweight in all the footage i watch, & he sticks it to the ground no doubt.
 
dhkid

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
dw said:
One thing I noticed with the setups that you have is that in my experience, I find that the minions roll a lot faster in hard pack and parking lots than the High rollers. I'd be interested to see the comparison with identical tires and pressure in a back to back ride.
Click to expand...
i found that high rollers rolled slower then minnions too. but not by much.
 
H

hbfrdh

Chimp
Mar 23, 2004
50
0
Nice "quickie" review b-punk. It would be nice if more people would write posts such as yours when comparing two similar, or somewhat similar bikes. Please continue to update this thread!
 
rosenamedpoop

rosenamedpoop

Turbo Monkey
Feb 27, 2004
1,284
0
just Santa Cruz...
dw said:
I find that the minions roll a lot faster in hard pack and parking lots than the High rollers.
Click to expand...
The Minions do roll faster than High Rollers, plus he's using Super Tacky High Rollers and 3C Minions. The 3C tires roll much faster than Super Tacky. I got some Minion 3Cs last week and after 7 days of riding, I see no reason for Maxxis to continue making Super Tacky tires. The 3Cs are simply better. :clapping:
 
RaID

RaID

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,393
0
Not the real North Shore (Sydney), Aus
rosenamedpoop said:
The Minions do roll faster than High Rollers, plus he's using Super Tacky High Rollers and 3C Minions. The 3C tires roll much faster than Super Tacky. I got some Minion 3Cs last week and after 7 days of riding, I see no reason for Maxxis to continue making Super Tacky tires. The 3Cs are simply better. :clapping:
Click to expand...
what about compared to Slow Reezay?
ive found they grip better and last longer then Super Tackys
 
Bikerpunk241

Bikerpunk241

Monkey
Sep 28, 2001
765
0
I'm 5'7" 150 lbs. Sunday size 17", Socom size Medium. I'll let you all know on the tires once I get a chance to try em. Hopefully this week.
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
Bikerpunk241 said:
I'm 5'7" 150 lbs. Sunday size 17", Socom size Medium. I'll let you all know on the tires once I get a chance to try em. Hopefully this week.
Click to expand...

At 150 lbs, the 350 spring that you are running on the Sunday is really stiff for your weight. You really should consider a 300. I weigh 165 and run a 300 on the DHX with 110 psi in the chamber and boost valve all the way closed. That is going to make a big difference in how the bike rides.

What chainring are you running on both bikes?
 
rosenamedpoop

rosenamedpoop

Turbo Monkey
Feb 27, 2004
1,284
0
just Santa Cruz...
RaID said:
what about compared to Slow Reezay?
ive found they grip better and last longer then Super Tackys
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree Slow Reezay (40a) was a better compound than Super Tacky (42a), but Reezay has been/is being phased out. The 3Cs are a really functional combination of 40a shoulders, and 42a center knobs with 70a cores. They roll much better than 40a or 42a, but turn like Reezays.
 
Biscuit

Biscuit

Turbo Monkey
Feb 12, 2003
1,768
1
Pleasant Hill, CA
dw said:
At 150 lbs, the 350 spring that you are running on the Sunday is really stiff for your weight. You really should consider a 300. I weigh 165 and run a 300...
Click to expand...
No kidding. I'm 185 and run a 350# spring.

I'm particularly interested in knowing wheel specs and fully built weight of each bike.
 
downhillracer

downhillracer

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2005
1,230
0
Sammamish, WA
rosenamedpoop said:
Yeah, I agree Slow Reezay (40a) was a better compound than Super Tacky (42a), but Reezay has been/is being phased out. The 3Cs are a really functional combination of 40a shoulders, and 42a center knobs with 70a cores. They roll much better than 40a or 42a, but turn like Reezays.
Click to expand...
yah thats what i have found, the new 3cs have the same traction as reezays but roll faster and last longer. they are sweet!
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Those 3c ones also cost more than twice as much as the Slow Reezaays, over here at least... $140 for a tyre, no thanks.
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
dw said:
One thing I noticed with the setups that you have is that in my experience, I find that the minions roll a lot faster in hard pack and parking lots than the High rollers. I'd be interested to see the comparison with identical tires and pressure in a back to back ride.
Click to expand...
Really? I've found Minions to be extremely slow-rolling tyres, and High Rollers typically somewhat better. That said, that might be partly because the HRs lose their centre knobs (on the rear at least) after about 5 runs...
 
W

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
That's soft. I'm 220ish and I ran a 400 last season with lots of bottom out and lots of boost. Im running 450 on my new frame this season and it feels sooo much better.

It's feels smoother over chatter, faster everywhere and snaps out of corners so much better than it did before while maintaining drift traction a lot better. Rebound is the same, boost is now 110 and bottom out is again all the way in.
 
ska todd

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
I can understand 400# for someone 220-230 on a Sunday if they run a little less sag or like to freechuck; 450# is a bit firm though. How much sag are you running? At 1/3 sag, 350# with a turn or two of preload, bottom out in, and ~100-125psi boost should be money.

-ska todd
 
W

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
ska todd said:
I can understand 400# for someone 220-230 on a Sunday if they run a little less sag or like to freechuck; 450# is a bit firm though. How much sag are you running? At 1/3 sag, 350# with a turn or two of preload, bottom out in, and ~100-125psi boost should be money.

-ska todd
Click to expand...
Im running somewhere around 20-25% sag with little preload. My point is, the bike feels a lot better stiffer than it's "supposed" to be, which seems weird to me, too....but is definitely what it is. I've run all my previous frames around 1/3 sag.

For my riding style? I like going really fast in the NW - which means hitting big rocks hard and occasionally feeling like a big gap is needed.

but I'm definitely not a freechucker.
 
Biscuit

Biscuit

Turbo Monkey
Feb 12, 2003
1,768
1
Pleasant Hill, CA
WBC said:
Im running somewhere around 20-25% sag with little preload. My point is, the bike feels a lot better stiffer than it's "supposed" to be, which seems weird to me, too....but is definitely what it is. I've run all my previous frames around 1/3 sag.
Click to expand...
For clarification, since it doesn't seem clear in your earlier post:
What frame are you riding WBC?
The spring #'s being quoted are specifically for IH Sundays.
 
Bikerpunk241

Bikerpunk241

Monkey
Sep 28, 2001
765
0
dw said:
At 150 lbs, the 350 spring that you are running on the Sunday is really stiff for your weight. You really should consider a 300. I weigh 165 and run a 300 on the DHX with 110 psi in the chamber and boost valve all the way closed. That is going to make a big difference in how the bike rides.

What chainring are you running on both bikes?
Click to expand...

I know I should have a softer spring on the Sunday, I tried both 300 and 350, and well, don't really have a good reason for riding the 350, just am. For chainrings, Sunday has a 40 on it, Socom has a 38. Also, I neglected to say that it's not my Sunday anymore, had to sell it to get the new bike, which would have been another Sunday, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to try something new and different. I miss my Sundays (both of them), but I like to broaden my horizons also to see if there is another option that might work out better for my riding style.
 
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