[BurlyShirley]

And IMO, there's really nothing that Honda can get from DHing that would crossover to MotoX stuff, so you have to assume they're going to be fore sale at some point. This win is a big thing for Honda.

Anyone got any news on a marketing strategy or sales stuff?

 

[thaflyinfatman]

And IMO, there's really nothing that Honda can get from DHing that would crossover to MotoX stuff, so you have to assume they're going to be fore sale at some point. This win is a big thing for Honda.

Anyone got any news on a marketing strategy or sales stuff?

Um actually, there were some pretty solid (ie reliable) comments that Honda were developing the dh bike for the primary purpose of furthering their MX bikes... I'll see if I can find the quote.

Edit: here it is:

"In an interview with the Honda design team in an issue of MBA late last year, the engineers stated that Honda's interest in MTB's was to test concepts for their Moto range. They said that DH MTBs were a perfect test-bed for certain Moto design concepts. The bike was designed entirely by the CAD program that they use for Moto's."

 

[BurlyShirley]

I think that's a bit of a smokescreen comment. Theres really nothing that I could see would apply. Especially in terms of suspension, because the suspension being used has to be set up entirely different that waht one would use on a moto bike.

 

[Silver]

If they can have it come in at around 2500, MAYBE 3500 at the absolute most for the frame, why not?

If they can't, I can't see it selling. Most riders are gear whores to some extent or another, very few people keep the same bike for three or four years.

 

[crashing_sux]

This win is a big thing for Honda.

QUOTE]

What win?

 

[Pow pow]

What win?

Greg Minnar won the first round of the world cup at Fort William this weekend, and I was there watching


I would like to think Honda will make the bike avaliable at some point, but working on the gearbox is probably going to be a bit more complicated that tuning your mech.

 

[Transcend]

the bike will NEVER be commercially viable. Honda is using it as a pure proof of concept situation for moto endeavors. Look for a big feature on Transcend on this exact issue (including interviews with riders, technitians and team managers) following the NCS round in West Virginia.

 

[BurlyShirley]

shut up. its coming out

 

[Full Trucker]

its coming out

The new Honda bike is gay? Weird... not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[DHanamal]

Actually, Honda did not win this weekend. Greg Minnaar won.

The rider makes the bike, not the other way around.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Oh, so the rider was not on a Honda? Is that what you're saying? Because I could swear that he was riding a honda. Everything I read said he was on a honda. What is this other information you have? Do you mean to say that a man can win a world cup on a non-legitimate DH bike? Is that it? WTF are you talking about this is not a win for Honda?

 

[valve bouncer]

Honda made that bike for the same reason a dog licks its balls.....cause it can

 

[crashing_sux]

Oh, so the rider was not on a Honda? Is that what you're saying? Because I could swear that he was riding a honda. Everything I read said he was on a honda. What is this other information you have? Do you mean to say that a man can win a world cup on a non-legitimate DH bike? Is that it? WTF are you talking about this is not a win for Honda?

Minaar is so fast he could win on a big-wheel, the bike is really a formality

Hell, he doesn't even need a bike, he could run down the course faster than everyone else but the damn rules require him to take a bike with him and he says it's easier to ride it than carry it.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

"In an interview with the Honda design team in an issue of MBA late last year, the engineers stated that Honda's interest in MTB's was to test concepts for their Moto range. They said that DH MTBs were a perfect test-bed for certain Moto design concepts. The bike was designed entirely by the CAD program that they use for Moto's."

Say it with me: "EVERYTHING that is printed in MBA is pure bullsh*t".

Thanks.

 

[rockracing]

I'm actually really surprised that he won on that bike, cos from the pics, it looks like his derailleur fell off at some point during the race.........

 

[CTR]

Minaar is so fast he could win on a big-wheel, the bike is really a formality

Hell, he doesn't even need a bike, he could run down the course faster than everyone else but the damn rules require him to take a bike with him and he says it's easier to ride it than carry it.

correction needed there, he could probably beat most of us on a big wheel, but i don't honestly think he'd take out sam, nathan, peaty etc.

 

[Ian F]

the bike will NEVER be commercially viable. Honda is using it as a pure proof of concept situation for moto endeavors.

This is really a shame as a MX company like Honda is probably the only company with the manufacturing base to produce a top-notch DH bike at a really low price-point. I had visions of this bike being sold at Honda dealers for around $2000.

But then again, I doubt most MX dealers would want to deal with a bunch of whiney DH racers... :mumble:

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Say it with me: "EVERYTHING that is printed in MBA is pure bullsh*t".

Thanks.

Most of it is, yes. But interviews with a technician? As if they'd just totally make that up.

 

[BMXERNAR]

Cannondale used their downhill bikes to develop the suspension on their moto cross bikes. They ran computers on the suspension during practice rounds. I could see Honda using some of it on the XR line but not the motocross line. :devil:

 

[Leethal]

Is a long damn time, when I left Honda (as an employee in purcahasing)they were never going to make a "Personal Watercraft" either...

 

[Jeremy R]

Cannondale used their downhill bikes to develop the suspension on their moto cross bikes. QUOTE]

And we all know how successful of a venture that turned out to be. :devil:

Even though it sucks, I have to agree with the others.
I don't think Honda will bring this bike to market because of one reason and that's money. Honda can make more money in one day selling floor mats to civic owners than they would make all year selling a few DH bikes.
This appears to be a straight up R & D venture from Honda. But either way it is a great thing for our sport.
The only exception I can think of was if Honda wanted in the whole market.
From making low end bikes, MTBs, road bikes, all the way up to DH bikes.
Imagine the price points a company like Honda could hit. Ah, one can only dream.

 

[bizutch]

are you kidding...if they can make the gearbox concept work, it will eliminate chain guides, derailleurs, cassettes and alot of durability issues.

On the flip side, Mexico has just introduced their own internally driven bike. It's low maintainance and all the rage on the Tijuana DH circuit.

 

[DHanamal]

I was just trying to make a point, because nobody even mentioned Greg Minnaar for the win. He couldn't have won on a beach cruiser, but he has won World Cups on other bikes, Orange 222, Haro DHR. I'm sure the Honda bike rides extremely well, but the bike is nothing without a good pilot.

 

[Threepointtwo]

Say it with me: "EVERYTHING that is printed in MBA is pure bullsh*t".

Thanks.

Not true. Didn't you see the Bigfoot sighting in the July issue? There was even a picture.

 

[formerly poobah]

Cannondale used their downhill bikes to develop the suspension on their moto cross bikes. They ran computers on the suspension during practice rounds. I could see Honda using some of it on the XR line but not the motocross line. :devil:

since when does cannon dale make mx bikes

 

[go-ride.com]

I have heard that because the strength to weight ratio of a DH bike has to be much greater than an MX bike, Honda wanted to use the DH bike as a development tool for improving MX bikes. Essentially, the new 450cc 4 stroke MX bikes are so powerful there is little more power that even the best riders can handle. For that matter, I’ve seen a few interviews from top MX racers commenting about how the 450s have been tuned for less hard hitting power to make the bikes less fatiguing to ride. However, there is opportunity to make them lighter and have smoother power output. Thus the new new DH bike with a very CR looking frame and a new type of smooth power output transmission.

This is what I’ve heard, and from what I’ve seen of the bike it makes sense.

 

[biker3]

since when does cannon dale make mx bikes

well i dono when it started but it ended this year considering their brilliant MX bikes and quads nearly sent them down the pooper. Now their just back to bikes hopefully it stays that way...

 

[Roasted]

since when does cannon dale make mx bikes

They don't....anymore.

 

[BMXERNAR]

since when does cannon dale make mx bikes

It has been a couple of years ago back in 2000 or so. From my understanding the suspension was pretty good, it was the motor that was a piece of crap. I dont think the motor ever made it thrue one mx national with out blowing up. The motorcycle side of the company caused them to file for bankruptcy back in 02 or 03. Closed a couple of their plants over the deal. They also made a four wheeler.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Actually, their 4 wheeler is one of the best ever made and people pay big bucks for them.

 

[Wumpus]

since when does cannon dale make mx bikes

I also heard they had a crappy marketing plan. The dealers had to take something like 3 mx bikes for each 4wheeler.

 

[bizutch]

Actually, their 4 wheeler is one of the best ever made and people pay big bucks for them.

you're right. the demise of their moto program revolved around their dealer program. The quad was smokin and dealers and customers were clamoring for them, but Cannondale was pushing the MX bike hard. They were requiring(I believe this is the correct #) each dealer to order 2 moto bikes to every 1 quad. No one wanted to do that for obvious reasons. Plus Cannondale did a big corporate NO NO. They mixed funds....i.e., used bicycle profits to feed the motocross credit line. Bad, VERY BAD business practice.

 

[Threepointtwo]

Well, since this is a moto thread now, ATK bought the assets of the Cannondale MX division and is fixing all of the C'Dale problems and selling them as new ATK models. Both the quad and the cycles. I visited the factory last week and was pretty impressed.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Well, ATK sucks, and badly i might add. Mix that with the crappy cannondales and you've got a recipe for disaster IMO.

 

[rockracing]

I was just trying to make a point, because nobody even mentioned Greg Minnaar for the win. He couldn't have won on a beach cruiser, but he has won World Cups on other bikes, Orange 222, Haro DHR. I'm sure the Honda bike rides extremely well, but the bike is nothing without a good pilot.

true, he seems to be a very versatile rider, just saw an interview on the tv with him, very vague about the bike, just mentioned its low centre of gravity and that it corners very well as a result

they're skipping the next 2 world cup stops in favour of the norba series.....seems strange to me. so keep an eye out for him at snowshoe.

 

[bizutch]

yeah...I'll give you guys a performance report on it as I try to chase him down the course in practice....should be about a 2 second evaluation...tops!

 

[BurlyShirley]

they're skipping the next 2 world cup stops in favour of the norba series.....seems strange to me. so keep an eye out for him at snowshoe.

seems to me like theyre catering to an American audience...

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Like Scotty said, from what we've heard from a bunch of industry guys (one of our buddies at Shimano, one from Troy Lee, and a guy who used to own a moto shop here in SLC), Honda is making the bike specifically to further their own MX and Endure bike development. I believe a Honda press release referred to the high strength-to-weight ratio that DH bikes must possess (ie guys are going near moto speed on bikes that weigh 40 pounds or less and doing huge drops and jumps that are the same size you see on the national MX track). Obviously a lot of the weight in a moto bike is in the engine, but if Honda can figure out how to trim weight from the frame, suspension, and wheelset via DH R&D, it's going to benefit their entire product line. In the meantime, they're showing the DH world that the gearbox concept is totally viable and able to win races, which we saw at the opening WC this year. The bike isn't the best looking machine IMO, but it's also not the worst. The important thing is that more companies are now going to seriously investigate internal drivetrains, which is going to benefit everybody in the sport (although maybe not our checkbooks).

 

[BurlyShirley]

That still just doesnt make any sense to me. I mean, the stuff a DH bike goes through is NOTHING compared to a MX bike. Ever seen Larocco's Leap at RedBud? G-zus. Plus a DH frame wont have to deal with torque issues like an MX frame and a ton of other things. The concept of this applying to MX technology is nothing but a smokescreen IMO. Why not just test the concepts on a dirtbike? Also, having Showa and Kayaba come up with MTB forks just for this little test doesnt make sense either unless they had some real way to profit, as theyre independent companies, and designing a comletely new fork for something like this sounds like a stretch to me. Mark my words. The honda will be for sale.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Well technically some of Honda's "smokescreen" goals have already been met, like a 2 pound gearbox, and Showa and Kayaba have both developed monocoque crowns for the forks, which they also had never done before. Maybe the bike will see production, although I seriously doubt it. The big thing to keep in mind with that is the number of DH bikes they'd sell, even at a $2500 price point. How many are they going to sell? Maybe 1,000 a year? 2,000 if everything falls into place for them? Honda probably sells 10,000 CR250s every year in the US alone. It's simply not a very viable business decision. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the bike go into production and the things you're saying are justifiable, but looking at the numbers it just isn't feasible.