[rigidhack]

Going with new wheels, so I want to know what you think about my hub options. 150mm spacing, laced to MAcic 729s - on a bike that will be used for both DH and FR applications (mostly FR, really).

I am mainly looking at the Hope Pro 2 and the new Saint. Anybody had time on either one?

 

[norbar]

What's the weight on the new saint?

Hopes are quite prooven so if there is nothing really convincing in the saints I'd go for them. I've rocked a pro2/dt revolution/823 combo in the rear and it has been performing great.

 

[dropmachine]

Hadleys: Colors, excellent execution, great engagement, great support, just a great damn hub all around. They are pricey though, especially if you get the kickass ceramic bearings. Easy to maintain too.

HOPES: Simple, simple, simple. Light. Really, just a well done standard hub, except for the 150. The flange spacing is i think the same as the 135s, so you're sort of losing a big bonus that you get going ot 150 with a zero offset wheel. Not very good engagement, but whether thats important or not on a DH bike is up to you. Pretty colors.

SAINTS: They roll awesomely well, they're strong, but they do take maintenance, which is easy to do once you figure it out. Not so light, but nice wide flanges. Centerlock, for what its worth.

 

[gemini2k]

Wait....people use non hadley hubs for DH? Since when?

 

[rigidhack]

Hadleys: Colors, excellent execution, great engagement, great support, just a great damn hub all around. They are pricey though, especially if you get the kickass ceramic bearings. Easy to maintain too.

HOPES: Simple, simple, simple. Light. Really, just a well done standard hub, except for the 150. The flange spacing is i think the same as the 135s, so you're sort of losing a big bonus that you get going ot 150 with a zero offset wheel. Not very good engagement, but whether thats important or not on a DH bike is up to you. Pretty colors.

SAINTS: They roll awesomely well, they're strong, but they do take maintenance, which is easy to do once you figure it out. Not so light, but nice wide flanges. Centerlock, for what its worth.

Excellent info. This build is more focused on durability (or indestructability) than on weight. I'll make that trade any day of the week. I understand the Saint is a non-sealed cup & ball design. Is it as easy to service as a BMX hub? How likely is it to hold up to a season of PNW mud and nastiness?

Also, the info on the Hope hub is new to me. I am slightly concerned with engagement as I will be using the bike as a FR bike, too, and the quick engagement on skinnies and such is nice.

 

[Udi]

Since you mention mud and nastiness, I'd suggest sticking with the hope. I've found hadley hubs to be sub-par in the sealing department, and the needle bearing used in the freehub body is very sensitive to water. If you keep it packed with a light grease (and I mean packed, not gently lubed) then it will hold up to wet riding, but I've had them seize in wet conditions if not taken care of.

The hopes on the other hand, you can ride in mud and pressure wash all day long, no maintenance whatsoever, I've had a set ticking for years and seasons of DH without a single issue. The engagement is slower for sure, but I've never found it to be an issue or actually noticed it in action (apart from if you're testing/looking for it).

As for the flange spacing on the hope, personally I prefer it, because it provides a zero dish wheel. In my experience this makes for a longer lasting build and spokes that don't come loose as easily as a wheel with uneven spoke tensions left and right. Technically, wider spacing is stronger, but when was the last time you blew up a DH wheel (as opposed to just knocking it out of true)?

The hope is also lighter by a fair bit, and the main bearings last longer before getting rough (larger ball size might be the reason, not quite sure). So ultimately, the only benefit to the hadley is the faster engagement - and it is a lot faster, but it's up to you to decide whether you actually need it. I had a 108pt and didn't notice any impact on my riding switching to 24, just miss the buzz.

 

[Banshee Rider]

Since you mention mud and nastiness, I'd suggest sticking with the hope. I've found hadley hubs to be sub-par in the sealing department, and the needle bearing used in the freehub body is very sensitive to water. If you keep it packed with a light grease (and I mean packed, not gently lubed) then it will hold up to wet riding, but I've had them seize in wet conditions if not taken care of.

Quoted for truth. I had issues with these hubs more (and sooner) than any other high end hub I've used. (DT Swiss, King, and I9)

 

[davep]

I certianly dont want to start a 'my hub I better than your hub' rant, but every time I hear of water/bearing issues with Hadley, it makes me curious as to the cause. I know they had a run of bad bearings (freehub needle bearings) on a batch of 108s, and they have gone through several generations of the axle/cone lip seal. It also seems like most of the people that have had Hadley issues are from Oz. I guess I am just wondering if maybe a bunch of the bad bearings made down there and the distributor (if there is one) did not inform people or take care of the problem? Have people had issues with more than one hub (ie different product runs or version numbers)? or was it simply a single issue and then you went elsewhere?

I ask, because in 30+ years of riding off road bikes, my several sets of hadley have been some of the best I have owned in this regard, and I dont exactly live in a dry environment. My youngest set of hubs are three years old, the oldest is around six. The old pair have seen MANY days of whistler mud with true power washer episodes between runs (gondola only requires wash every run) including more than a few full days in snow/sleet and very heavy rain.

I clean the freehub and clean/remove axles once a season, and that is IT. All hubs have all original parts except for a single pawl spring (and I know many poeple around here with similar results).

Again, not trying to start an arguement, I am just trying to understand the drastically different experiences, and wondering if it is related to some product run or model number.

???

 

[Tayrob]

I'd go for the Hadleys,after 4 years of completly untouched service my rear Hadley still feels out of the box smooth.

 

[quickneonrt]

I would also look at DT 440 awsome hub. I have a Hugi fr same as the 440 for 4yrs with no issues at all

 

[Zark]

My Hadley's are three years old and holding up great. Rolls great, great engagement and proving reliable and easy to service. Its funny how in 2010, a company with no website churns out the best stuff.

The 150 Hope hub is a bit of a dissappointment, why not spread the hub flanges and get a stronger wheel? They are light and dead simple, they aren't bad.

Saint hubs? The only about them thing I like is Centerlock. Cup and cone hubs require too much work for me. Heavy and not great engagement.... Come on Shimano, step it up a little.

 

[Sam B]

Both 12mm Hope hubs I have had (135mm and 150mm) ended up with cracked axles at just under the 1 year mark. The hub axle (that the 12mm passes through) breaks where the cassette body and hub body meet. That part of the hub is quite thin, and I don't think it is totally up to the task. I doubt a 10mm thru axle, bolt on or QR version would have the same problem - since that axle is thicker.

I would buy them again, no doubt about it. Light, relatively cheap, easy to work on. I would just pre-purchase a new axle and replace it after about 9 months.

 

[mellow_sparky]

I recently went through this same analysis when specing out new wheels. I had it narrowed down to Hope and Hadley. I ended up with Hadley for three reasons:
1. way better freehub engagement.
2. titanium freehub body (more durable than the aluminum on the Hope)
3. the ability to adjust the bearing preload (allows you to trim out play in the hub as the bearings wear).

 

[Kanye West]

I recently went through this same analysis when specing out new wheels. I had it narrowed down to Hope and Hadley. I ended up with Hadley for three reasons:
1. way better freehub engagement.
2. titanium freehub body (more durable than the aluminum on the Hope)
3. the ability to adjust the bearing preload (allows you to trim out play in the hub as the bearings wear).

Another big reason - coil spring engaged pawls vs. wimpy little leaf springs which fail often.

 

[Udi]

Another big reason - coil spring engaged pawls vs. wimpy little leaf springs which fail often.

A friend of mine had his hadley (new 72pt) skipping pretty badly not long after he bought it (brand new), so I don't think hadley's wrap-around spring is neccessarily better (or worse) than the leaf spring setup in the hope.

I guess I am just wondering if maybe a bunch of the bad bearings made down there and the distributor (if there is one) did not inform people or take care of the problem? Have people had issues with more than one hub (ie different product runs or version numbers)? or was it simply a single issue and then you went elsewhere?

I purchased my hub from the US (balle-racing) and it came from hadley direct. It was a 108pt. The freehub (completely) seized on the first wet ride out, and the main hub bearings were pretty rough after only a few months. I swapped the main bearings for some japanese sealed ones which lasted a lot longer, and packed the needle bearing with grease. Then there was the skipping 72pt, newer hub that should have had any updates (since when does a hub need updates anyway.. not exactly rocket science).

That's just two cases that I've seen personally. For a hub that costs such a ridiculous amount, I wasn't particularly impressed... I liked the engagement and buzz, but when it comes to reliability, weight, and price the hope wins out IMO. That's just my experience, I'm not trying to start an argument either... I guess our mileage just varied.

Ultimately I'd be happiest if they offered the proII trials offset freehub body for the normal hubs, which would bump it up to 48pt and make the engagement thing a non issue. DT recently upgraded their star ratchets to 36pt (from 18) so who knows... maybe in the future we'll see something.

 

[Gelbwurstbrot]

I have a lot of problems with my Hope hubs. Have to replace the bearings twice a year. On my front wheel I replaced the bearings und the end cups and it is still loose. Had broken pawl springs several times. Material of the freehub body is very soft. I have no luck with them.

BUT these problems are easy and cheap to fix and you can get every little piece speratly.
It seems to be people are very comfortable with them or have a lot of problems. May there quality is a bit unsteady.
I have to say I ride a lot and probably in one year more than other people in three years.

They are cheap, colouful and light but I would not buy them again.

Does anyone have tried Burgtec hubs?

 

[DH Dad]

Outside of the 150 Hub the Hope hubs are bombproof IMO. I've got a set of Pro 2s on mine and my wife's bike, a set of 2003 Hope Bulbs on my DH wheels and a set of 2001 Hope Bulbs that have been on more bikes than I can remember. Never done a thing to any of them and I raced the aweful 2004 Mud season at Tenney Mtn on the Bulbs where the mud bogs were deeper than the wheels.

I also have a beautiful set of gold Hadleys on my RFX that are a few years old. They were the 108pt and failed within the first 2 months. Hadley fixed them fairly quickly (though being without my rear wheel for 10 days in the middle of summer wasn't fun) and now they're 72 pt. I honestly haven't had any further issues with the rear since but the front needs to be tightened more often than I like, only front hub I've ever had to do that on.

Hopes are like half the price too. Engagement is fine for us mere mortals!

 

[norbar]

It seems that the bearing issues with hope are a bit random. Some people had issues while Udi and me had no problems at all. I've ridden them during heavy rain quite a few times this season and they seem to be very well. Same for pressure washing. I can feel the engagement only when I try to kick the pedals hard (I know it's wrong but I do it sometimes) instead of smothly starting but it's not that much of an issue as I don't pedal to much anyway (or at all as some would say).

 

[Sandwich]

I had great luck with a hope pro2 x135. Pressure washing and no maintenance for 2 years and it was still clicking strong. Sounded like it had just broke in. Felt the difference in engagement from that hub to a cheaper 15pt hub, but haven't ridden anything better than that.

I have heard that the new saints are significantly lighter than before, and have an equal or greater engagement than the hopes.

 

[Raingauge]

Been riding hopes front and rear laced to 823's for two years with no problems. 3 other guys I know ride the same combo without any problems all 150mm spacing. I pressure was my bike regulary and ride in the wet.

 

[slowitdown]

I don't really get the Hadley issues. I have a set that I've been running since 2003, they have been on 5 bikes, in 4 different wheelset builds. Never once replaced a bearing. No flaws. Only cleaned and re-lubed 2x in that whole time. I ride a lot, too. In peak season I ride 3x / week at 3-4 hrs a time, and at least one weekend ride of 5-7 hrs. Add that up.

Seems to me you'd have to really try hard to screw up a Hadley -- and this is possible because they allow pre-load adjustment and if you have too little or too much you are going to prematurely wear one or more race of bearings.

There's also the possibility of putting in too much grease, or a grease that's too thick, and experiencing what seems like hub failure but actually is just the pawls not able to extent/retract properly.

To top it off, Hadley is a small company that you deal with directly when you have issues, and they will be able to work with you.

No, I don't work for Hadley and I'm not sponsored. I'm just super-surprised to hear of Hadley problems when I and my friends have never seen anything like the things described here.

On the other hand, I have seen Hope hub failures in the Pro 2 series of rear hubs -- cracked shells, broken pieces within the pawl/ring mechanism, broken springs.

Take it for what it's worth. Maybe it's because I've never pressure-washed them and I rarely wash my bikes.

 

[DH-LOS]

Going with new wheels, so I want to know what you think about my hub options. 150mm spacing, laced to MAcic 729s - on a bike that will be used for both DH and FR applications (mostly FR, really).

I am mainly looking at the Hope Pro 2 and the new Saint. Anybody had time on either one?

Take the saints right off the list they are no diff from any sub par hub out there they are not worth the money at all, I can name you a few hubs that are gonna be $100 cheaper that will give you the same performance.

Now to the question def the two Hubs and only two Hubs in my opinion is Hadleys or Hopes.. I personally prefer Hopes there engagment to me is above all I hammer my wheels and hubs being 230lb and not easy on the wheels and have never had any problems with Hopes. I just had a new set of race wheels built for me Mavic 721's with Hope Pro II hubs in Gold Before that i had a set of Atomlab rims with Hope Pro II that I rocked for over 2 seasons and the hub is as tight and smooth as when I bought her. With that said I can say the same of Hadleys my buddy runs the Hadleys all the time and he has the same luck as I do. The Hadleys are great aswell but to me I just love that sound of Hopes.. Good luck

 

[daisycutter]

Saints i would cross off the list. Hope are a solid choice but are not up to hadleys in my opinion. I use only hadleys or dt 440 hubs currentily. Had an issue with a hope rear hub a few years ago. dt is great about their hubs buy a 440 and you have it for life. last year I dropped my 440 hub while changing rims and cracked the flange. They sent me a new hub no questions asked.

 

[rstwosix]

I certianly dont want to start a 'my hub I better than your hub' rant, but every time I hear of water/bearing issues with Hadley, it makes me curious as to the cause. I know they had a run of bad bearings (freehub needle bearings) on a batch of 108s, and they have gone through several generations of the axle/cone lip seal. It also seems like most of the people that have had Hadley issues are from Oz. I guess I am just wondering if maybe a bunch of the bad bearings made down there and the distributor (if there is one) did not inform people or take care of the problem? Have people had issues with more than one hub (ie different product runs or version numbers)? or was it simply a single issue and then you went elsewhere?

I ask, because in 30+ years of riding off road bikes, my several sets of hadley have been some of the best I have owned in this regard, and I dont exactly live in a dry environment. My youngest set of hubs are three years old, the oldest is around six. The old pair have seen MANY days of whistler mud with true power washer episodes between runs (gondola only requires wash every run) including more than a few full days in snow/sleet and very heavy rain.

I clean the freehub and clean/remove axles once a season, and that is IT. All hubs have all original parts except for a single pawl spring (and I know many poeple around here with similar results).

Again, not trying to start an arguement, I am just trying to understand the drastically different experiences, and wondering if it is related to some product run or model number.

???

I'm from Oz and I have two set of wheels with Hadley hubs - one with the earlier 108 and the other with 72 freehub mech. Yes I had a problem with bearings in the 108 which I had fixed by the distributor (Dirt Works Australia) and it's been fine since. The 72 has run fine from purchase. I've had them for around 3 years. I wouldn't run anything else - once you get used to the instant engagement and the no brainer bearing preload adjustment there's no going back. Best hub in the business.

 

[Gelbwurstbrot]

I really wonder why my Hope hubs are so bad. It seems to be I have more problems than others and they get worser and worse.
May I just have used them too much and they are just gone.
They are 2.5 years old but at this time I was 13 weeks at France PDS and a lot weekends in bikeparks.

 

[norbar]

I really wonder why my Hope hubs are so bad. It seems to be I have more problems than others and they get worser and worse.
May I just have used them too much and they are just gone.
They are 2.5 years old but at this time I was 13 weeks at France PDS and a lot weekends in bikeparks.

You may simply be unlucky Every company can have a few "worse" units produced.

 

[quickneonrt]

Saints i would cross off the list. Hope are a solid choice but are not up to hadleys in my opinion. I use only hadleys or dt 440 hubs currentily. Had an issue with a hope rear hub a few years ago. dt is great about their hubs buy a 440 and you have it for life. last year I dropped my 440 hub while changing rims and cracked the flange. They sent me a new hub no questions asked.

i have a hop pro 2 ss hate the design, hadley 135mm 72pt that is great and i can't stress enough how DT Swiss 440/Hugi FR are just the best hubs hands down. Even my road bikes have Dt Swiss hubs or internals made by DT.

 

[The Breaker Man]

I currently own a set of Hope/823's, Hadley/823's and Chris King/823's (sorry, never used Saint). None of these wheelsets have any hub related failure issues. They all still roll, engage and have no bearing play. If I had to pick the best all around it would be Hadley.

-The engagement on the Hope is noticeably worse, really loud and clunky. You'll have to beat/pry your cassette off the alloy freehub body because the cogs dig in real bad.
-Chris King's engagement is awesome, and sounds great, but they are soo expensive. Not worth the extra $$$ over Hadley.

 

[quickneonrt]

Kings are way over priced and do require more maintenance then any of the others also.

 

[jackalope]

What, nobody has recommended Seismics?

Quick word about 440s, mine have been pretty good, and they are obviously very easy to service. That said, I did manage to mushroom one of the aluminum spacers around the axel, which caused it to never un-engage (i.e. the always entertaining ghost pedaling). I think another poster mentioned this same issue on another recent hub thread, and there is merit to the point IMO. So the take home message is if you go with DTs, don't gorilla tighten the axel like my dumb azz.

If I had the money, I would try the Hadley's with ceramic bearings.