[Mlody]

Hi!

I have to buy a new fork, but I can't decide which. I'm looking at 2010/2011 Fox 40, 2010/2011 BOS Idylle, 2010/2011 Boxxer Team or WC, or 2010/2011 888RC3.

It's a tough choice since I can't compare those irl, and I've only ridden a Boxxer Team and 888. Any ideas what should I buy? I like my suspension rather stiff on LSC and HSC, can do maintenance myself and will put it on a Trek Session 10 frame.

 

[yetihenry]

For the price of a 2010/11 Idylle, you'll be able to look at a newer 12/13 888/Boxxer (and you'll also have more choice, allowing you to buy a good set).

My personal experience:

MY07 888 RC2X > MY08 WC > MY08 Team > MY10 Race > MY11 Team > Boxxer JTech > MY13 888 RC3 Ti V2

If you want stiff suspension that requires a lot of servicing, I'd go for Boxxers. However I think for value/riding/servicing new 888 are the best on the market.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

If you like running stiff compression presumably to keep the fork up in its travel and resist diving, you may find the newer 888s wanting--I really liked mine in many ways, and I think with some tinkering with the oil volume it's possible to get the feel you want, but it is a pretty divey fork particularly if you are in the 180-200 pound range which puts you between spring rates. The boxxer has the advantage that you could at some point retrofit it with the charger damper, which at least on my Pike really is great. Can't speak to the Bos or the Fox as I've not ridden them.

 

[Samoto]

I'd go with only zocchi 380 or Bos Idylle. Service free (1 time every year) and smooth as hell.

 

[Mlody]

For the price of a 2010/11 Idylle, you'll be able to look at a newer 12/13 888/Boxxer (and you'll also have more choice, allowing you to buy a good set).

Actually, I can get all of those forks for the same money. I've had a few Boxxers before and the maintenance doesn't scare me off... Not a problem for me to change oil/clean etc. every week if needed ;-).

If you like running stiff compression presumably to keep the fork up in its travel and resist diving, you may find the newer 888s wanting

Yup, I don't want a divey fork, and I tend to choose the fastest, not the smoothest lines (hence I use a lot of HSC). I'm 176 so... looks like 888 is out of the equation.

I'd go with only zocchi 380 or Bos Idylle. Service free (1 time every year) and smooth as hell.

380 is way abve my budget, BOS seems nice, but replacement parts can be hard to get afaik :/

 

[EVIL JN]

Ava kit + cheapest 2010 onwards Boxxer chassi (+ a solo air kit) = an excellent fork at a reasonabe price with a low maintenece schedule.

 

[Samoto]

Ava kit + cheapest 2010 onwards Boxxer chassi (+ a solo air kit) = an excellent fork at a reasonabe price with a low maintenece schedule.

+1

I have AVa plus 888. Pretty good!

 

[Mlody]

Ava kit + cheapest 2010 onwards Boxxer chassi (+ a solo air kit) = an excellent fork at a reasonabe price with a low maintenece schedule.

+1

I have AVa plus 888. Pretty good!

No go - ava kit + taxes is almost over the budget... (~$500 with taxes, and I have ~$900)

 

[Samoto]

You could start with a 888 Rc3, play with settings and see if you like it. It is a bit divey fork though.

 

[demo 9]

Bos

They just never die

 

[gemini2k]

Ava kit + cheapest 2010 onwards Boxxer chassi (+ a solo air kit) = an excellent fork at a reasonabe price with a low maintenece schedule.

Yeah it's pretty great if you're looking for a fork with the worst chassis.

 

[EVIL JN]

Yeah it's pretty great if you're looking for a fork with the worst chassis.

Well as long as it can win world cups its probably good enough to get anybody down a hill both reasonably fast and safe. And worst does not mean bad either, just not best.

Dont really see what is so bad about the actual chassi? Simple to service, bushings last quite long and there is ample availabillity of spare parts around. Stock I do agree that it is quite sticky and the MiCo/MoCo dampers are quite bad but the Ava kit takes care solves those problems very well

 

[norbar]

Ava kit + cheapest 2010 onwards Boxxer chassi (+ a solo air kit) = an excellent fork at a reasonabe price with a low maintenece schedule.

NOT with solo air. The solo air spring is crap. I was advised to throw mine out by almost anyone I asked about the wooden feeling and the only reason I didn't do it is that apparently I'm a masochist.

Regular spring + ava.

I don't get why people complain about boxxer chasis. The 2010+ is good.



Mlody - I think you stopped riding. I say question a few people with bos forks. I only tried the new ones and they are amazing but if the one you are looking at isn't divey then go for it. As for parts ask BFG or Spider guys can they find parts or service them if something goes wrong and you can't repair it yourself.

 

[msaman]

NOT with solo air. The solo air spring is crap. I was advised to throw mine out by almost anyone I asked about the wooden feeling and the only reason I didn't do it is that apparently I'm a masochist.

Regular spring + ava.

I don't get why people complain about boxxer chasis. The 2010+ is good.

Boxxers are okish if u r light rider.The chassis is a bit flexy that's all.
Everything is personal preference though.
May I ask u norbar did u change ur air spirng with a coil ? What's d thing u dont like abt the air spring ?
I am in love with mine 5-10 % sag max progression and just skipping over things )) Obviously d middle stroke support is not that great but running it with a small sag it helps a lot )) And who cares abt tiny roots or rocks it's all abt lines isnt it ?
I mean d Avy cart defo helps and I love mine for sure makes the forks so smooth can run mine from 45-80 psi and performs brilliantly .
To d guy looking for a new forks just get one boxxer + charger damper and u will be happy as Larry.
Doubt u r going mach 1 No offense meant )

 

[eater]

used 12+ Boxxer and the charger update!

 

[Udi]

Don't get a BOS, at least not a coil one (and I struggle to recommend anything air for DH).

I've worked on two now where the miniscule single coil spring (literally half the size of a Fox or RS item) has deformed / shrunk to the point where it is beyond the preload adjustment range and has to be compensated with custom spacers. That doesn't fix the problem permanently either (hugely undersized spring in the first place) which is terrible engineering by BOS. They work pretty well otherwise and I found them quite supportive, but for a heavier rider that would need a firmer spring, I'd give them a miss due to aforementioned issues.

If you're happy with regular servicing, the Fox and RS probably offer the most support, along with good stock springs and options.

- If you get the Fox, get the 2011+ (with compression adjusters on top) as it's a much better / more reliable damper. Kashima (if within budget) is good for improved longevity. Run HS full closed on stock valved damper for your weight, LS half of total range is a good starting point.
- If you get the RS, get the 2011+, and I'd budget for a charger damper later. Avoid air spring options. I didn't think the Avy option felt super supportive personally.
- If you get a Marzocchi, make sure it has a firm spring or budget for one, the stock one is a wallow fest under moderate to fast riders. I think it's quite good once you get the right spring rate, and keep oil heights near minimum. Excessive progression with high oil heights and soft springs play badly with the crude ported rebound damper, and results in a tendency to dive excessively and spring back harshly on steep tracks in my experience.

They can all be made to work well. Out of the box the 11+ Fox will likely work best for you, but watch for wear on poorly maintained used examples.

 

[norbar]

Boxxers are okish if u r light rider.The chassis is a bit flexy that's all.
Everything is personal preference though.
May I ask u norbar did u change ur air spirng with a coil ? What's d thing u dont like abt the air spring ?
I am in love with mine 5-10 % sag max progression and just skipping over things )) Obviously d middle stroke support is not that great but running it with a small sag it helps a lot )) And who cares abt tiny roots or rocks it's all abt lines isnt it ?
I mean d Avy cart defo helps and I love mine for sure makes the forks so smooth can run mine from 45-80 psi and performs brilliantly .
To d guy looking for a new forks just get one boxxer + charger damper and u will be happy as Larry.
Doubt u r going mach 1 No offense meant )

5-10% sag? With 45-80psi? Do you weight less than my shoe? I doubt the top pros run under 10% sag because the traction then is non existant. Measure your sag and/or psi again.

As for why I don't like it. Over certain pressures it becomes harsh and feels wooden. I've been told it's because preload builds up in the air spring over certain pressures. Won't go into the details because tbh I always feel like an idiot explaining it. All i know is people who know more than me all agree it's the problem.





@Udi - have you tried the bos air? I only test rode it for short distances but it felt great and a friend of mine who is quite abusive to his bikes swears it's the best fork he had. He isn't a total hack either so I was considering buying it whenever I stumble over a pile of gold.

 

[Udi]

Yeah, have ridden a few Idylle RaRe airs - I thought they felt decent but under-sprung for me so was hard to make a fair comparison.

I find it's pretty easy to make suspension feel great from a sensitivity standpoint when it's either under-sprung (particularly air springs) or under-damped (particularly in compression), but it's much harder to net a very supportive setup that is also sensitive and responsive - generally a sign of good design and tuning.

I have a feeling if RS implement the same air spring from the new Pike (larger negative volume) in the Boxxer it'll be a big improvement over the old air setup. Also if you haven't already, try the Racing Bros seals - they don't last super long but there's a noticeable decrease in stiction for the ~$30 outlay.

 

[norbar]

Yeah, have ridden a few Idylle RaRe airs - I thought they felt decent but under-sprung for me so was hard to make a fair comparison.

I find it's pretty easy to make suspension feel great from a sensitivity standpoint when it's either under-sprung (particularly air springs) or under-damped (particularly in compression), but it's much harder to net a very supportive setup that is also sensitive and responsive - generally a sign of good design and tuning.

I have a feeling if RS implement the same air spring from the new Pike (larger negative volume) in the Boxxer it'll be a big improvement over the old air setup. Also if you haven't already, try the Racing Bros seals - they don't last super long but there's a noticeable decrease in stiction for the ~$30 outlay.

The local service gurus claimed they will put new super special seals on my boxxer so it may be it though they were speaking some nonsense about skf 35mm seals. Can't be sure. Though will if help if the real problem is the ****ty elastomer?

As for Idylle can't comment for a short ride. Was it underdamped? The one I tried wasn't undersprung for me given that I'm only a tad over 70kg.

 

[kazlx]

I think rule #1 is throw out anyone's opinion that tells you to run 5% sag on a DH fork.

Not sure what you have your heart set on, but I love my Dorado.

 

[sundaydoug]

Bos

They just never die

This is true. I'm going on season number 5 on my Idylle Rare, with fresh oil every season the thing still feels incredible.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Boxxer RC with Co3 (ex. Elka) cartridge from fast suspension may be an option.

 

[UncleHowie]

I think rule #1 is throw out anyone's opinion that tells you to run 5% sag on a DH fork.

Not sure what you have your heart set on, but I love my Dorado.

Yeah I love my dorado. Always works great and I'm a lazy dude that doesn't service his fork too often.

 

[jackalope]

-
- If you get a Marzocchi, make sure it has a firm spring or budget for one, the stock one is a wallow fest under moderate to fast riders. I think it's quite good once you get the right spring rate, and keep oil heights near minimum. Excessive progression with high oil heights and soft springs play badly with the crude ported rebound damper, and results in a tendency to dive excessively and spring back harshly on steep tracks in my experience.

They can all be made to work well. Out of the box the 11+ Fox will likely work best for you, but watch for wear on poorly maintained used examples.

Rather than reanimate the 50 page 888 thread, I will hijack this one briefly. As stated above, the stock 5.5 spring is still pretty floppy through most of its travel, even with extra oil added to the spring side to help with end stroke progressiveness. Not unrideable IMO, but certainly not ideal at my flabby 180 lbs. I found the firm spring (6.5) to be too harsh overall, even with the VA and comp backed all the way out. So any thoughts about running the firm spring and then doing say a 50/50 mix of 7.5 and 5 weight oil in the damper side?

 

[Udi]

I found the firm spring (6.5) to be too harsh overall, even with the VA and comp backed all the way out. So any thoughts about running the firm spring and then doing say a 50/50 mix of 7.5 and 5 weight oil in the damper side?

I wonder if your 6.5 is actually a 6.5, maybe you were given the x-firm 7.7 by accident or something was mislabeled. If you have a friend running the 6.5, see if you can borrow the spring for a few runs just to eliminate this.

My reasoning is: 5.5N/mm is 31lb/in 6.5N/mm is 37lb/in. The stock medium Fox spring is 40lb/in, and in 2013 they specced the firm as stock which is 45lb/in. I weigh a bit less than you and still wouldn't want anything softer than 40lb/in.

You can't really compensate for spring rate with damping, but if you want to try it anyway I'd probably drop down to 5wt entirely. Use the same brand/model of oil too, as wt ratings vary from brand to brand. If you want to get creative and have the resources, there's also this option.

You should also cycle the fork with the spring out (but topcap on) to get an idea of how much oil/air volume related spring rate progression you are gaining, you want as little as possible. Minimum oil volumes will help with this.

I'd definitely confirm that the spring you tried is actually a 6.5 first though, because it really shouldn't be too firm for you at 180.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Get a Fox 40 spring for the 888, if you are having problems with the spring rates of Marzocchi. They fit well.

 

[jackalope]

^^

Hmm, good to know. May try that. I checked the spring, and near as I can tell, is a 6.5 (I still have the bag it came in, and it says its a 6.5). I don't see any markings on the spring itself, so I suppose its possible they put the wrong spring in the bag or mislabled the bag. I also wonder if some fork springs are like shock springs in that the stated spring weight is not necessarily correct and some can have a meaningful disparity between listed and actual weights. A buddy of mine whos a bit faster than me gave the same spring a go, and also found it to be chatterhammer, so maybe either we're both super slow and/or somethings up with the spring itself.

But in the end, I think the obvious solution is just to gain 50 lbs. Woot!

 

[gemini2k]

Get a Fox 40 spring for the 888, if you are having problems with the spring rates of Marzocchi. They fit well.

I have a fox spring in my 2013 888 chassis with my avy cart. I tihnk it's the yellow one, the 8.8. It's a tight fit, and you can hear it rubbing, and I had to take off the little rubber protective thing. But it works, and it's way nice.

 

[blindboxx2334]

gaining 50lbs has never looked so good.

luckily ive got beer on my side.

 

[Mlody]

To d guy looking for a new forks just get one boxxer + charger damper and u will be happy as Larry.
Doubt u r going mach 1 No offense meant )

I was thinking about it, but for that kinda money I can get a Dorado...
Not even close to Mach 1, but I have my moments

Don't get a BOS, at least not a coil one (and I struggle to recommend anything air for DH).

I've worked on two now where the miniscule single coil spring (literally half the size of a Fox or RS item) has deformed / shrunk to the point where it is beyond the preload adjustment range and has to be compensated with custom spacers. That doesn't fix the problem permanently either (hugely undersized spring in the first place) which is terrible engineering by BOS. They work pretty well otherwise and I found them quite supportive, but for a heavier rider that would need a firmer spring, I'd give them a miss due to aforementioned issues.

Asked the seller, supposedly the spring is ok. Don't know if I'm a heavy rider or not, at 176... ;-)
Any other issues with BOS?
I'm almost sold on one...

I think rule #1 is throw out anyone's opinion that tells you to run 5% sag on a DH fork.

Not sure what you have your heart set on, but I love my Dorado.

Ohhh yeah, I have a 2005 TPC+ Dorado and looooooveeee it! Newer ones are over the budget though
I would pay more if I could find a 2009 (or was it 2010?) carbon one!

 

[demo 9]

Just putting this out there (and i have no real relation to BOS) is that if i was going to get ANY used fork, i would get a BOS because their life-time is much longer than a typical DH fork. 2 year service intervals instead of 8 hours... They are anodized internally and dont use any plastic parts(i think). BOS forks dont die-seriously.

This season I had a few suspension offers from reputable companies, all of them beat the BOS in terms of price, however, I chose to BUY an idylle rare and stoy shock at much more than i should have, and i am happy i did.

Its Air and open bath, what's not to love!

https://vimeo.com/100234670

 

[Mlody]

Thanks a lot for help guys!!
I got myself a BOS... but... http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/so-im-looking-bos-idylle-lowers-269734/

 

[Sandwich]

When I think of quality construction, after market support, and excellence in design, I always go French.

 

[Samoto]

it costs to be on top! Ask through service centres or another used fork.

just wait for Ohlins fork

 

[Udi]

When I think of quality construction, after market support, and excellence in design, I always go French.

Haha, I hate to say I told you so but...

Don't get a BOS

I told you so.

 

[Mlody]

it costs to be on top! Ask through service centres or used another used fork.

just wait for Ohlins fork

asked already, guys from BOS are looking for some cheap, used replacement...

Haha, I hate to say I told you so but...


I told you so.

Yeah, I should've listened to you, since you're never wrong when it comes to suspension, but...

...looks like you jinxed it, so it's your fault!!!!!

When I think of quality construction, after market support, and excellence in design, I always go French.

Yeah, and I drive an italian car...
WTF IS WRONG WITH ME?!

 

[Samoto]

old italian cars are worst crap, right?

Why dont Germans make a DH fork.. it is a mystery.

 

[tabletop84]

Just putting this out there (and i have no real relation to BOS) is that if i was going to get ANY used fork, i would get a BOS because their life-time is much longer than a typical DH fork. 2 year service intervals instead of 8 hours... They are anodized internally and dont use any plastic parts(i think). BOS forks dont die-seriously.

This season I had a few suspension offers from reputable companies, all of them beat the BOS in terms of price, however, I chose to BUY an idylle rare and stoy shock at much more than i should have, and i am happy i did.

Its Air and open bath, what's not to love!

https://vimeo.com/100234670

Well the first batch of rare airs wasn't that reliable...

 

[Sandwich]

Yeah, and I drive an italian car...
WTF IS WRONG WITH ME?!

You masochist.

 

[supercow]

Well the first batch of rare airs wasn't that reliable...

I had the very first of all BOS forks inc rare and rare air. Both were faultless.