[Andeh]

I don't have experience with mullet'ing the Smash (either with stock stays or MT stays), but I did play around with it on my Sentinel last year. You can read my thoughts here: https://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/sentinel-mullet-experiment-1110227.html

Now, keep in mind:
1) the Sentinel v1 leverage curve sucks balls to begin with, and mullet'ing it made it worse. It is regressive to sag then slightly progressive. The anti-squat is not very effective. Shifting weight bias further rear by slacking it out 1 degree makes this worse.
2) I tried this for only 1 ride, and it was with my buddy's worn out DHR that wouldn't hold air. I didn't give it a fair shake because of how bad the bike pedaled. I also didn't have a spare spring to throw on my shock to help pedaling, nor did I fiddle with the LSC.
3) The 333 BB height felt low as fuck. My current 349 BB feels a smidge high. I'd love to try a mullet with a BB around 340.
4) That said, it did feel like the rear end wanted to pivot around faster in tight corners, and accelerated better. I don't know how much of the cornering came from the wheel size, and how much from the super low BB.

I've looked at various MegaSmash setups and passed due to the BB height, and ordered a set of Gnarvana stays instead, which I'll run short forked. But I'd love to see a dedicated set of mullet stays, designed around 160 29er fork: 150 / 160 travel, 64.5 / 64 HTA, 76.5 / 76 STA, 345 / 340 BB height, and ~340+/- chainstay length. I'd buy that immediately.

 

[kidwoo]

"yeah dawgz! I bought a 29er!!"


.........a few rides later..........




"gotta be a way to make this thing ride like not a 29er"

 

[djjohnr]

"yeah dawgz! I bought a 29er!!"


.........a few rides later..........




"gotta be a way to make this thing ride like not a 29er"

That is the main reason I bought a GG this season. If I don't like the 29er setup at least I can go back to 27.5 easily.

 

[mtg]

"yeah dawgz! I bought a 29er!!"


.........a few rides later..........




"gotta be a way to make this thing ride like not a 29er"

Yeah, but I can't find a 32er yet, so I'm sticking with 29

 

[kidwoo]

cyclist

 

[mtg]

cyclist

Ouch

 

[Andeh]

I don't have any real issues with how the 29 handles. I just like trying new things. I do buzz my ass sometimes, but it's when I'm riding sloppy. And my local trails have very little pedaling on the descents, so the quicker spin-up wouldn't help as much as greater angular momentum from the bigger wheels. I noticeably reel in my buddy who weighs a solid 20 lbs more than me who rides a Bronson every time we get out of tight corners.

Not saying it makes me a better rider, but it feels really satisfying.

 

[djjohnr]

Offset bushing clearance: 2mm offset bushing, size 3 Smash, plush mode, Flow Mk3 rim, 2.5 DHF

 

[marshalolson]

@djjohnr - Cool!

Assuming you have 2mm bushings on both ends? Or just one end? Curious how much physical drop that gives you, and how you perceive it on trail.

I was thinking about your Sentinal comment earlier, and was wondering how much sag you ran? I recall folks going up to 35% on those Transitions...(?)

Anyhow, eager to hear more!

 

[djjohnr]

@djjohnr - Cool!

Assuming you have 2mm bushings on both ends? Or just one end? Curious how much physical drop that gives you, and how you perceive it on trail.

I was thinking about your Sentinal comment earlier, and was wondering how much sag you ran? I recall folks going up to 35% on those Transitions...(?)

Anyhow, eager to hear more!

I'm running one 2mm bushing right now, I think a second one would run into clearance issues and so far I'm not feeling the need for more. The Sentinel comment was by @Andeh, I haven't felt like the BB is high on the Smash. I was looking to increase FC/RC ratio, giving me effectively more leverage over the rear end. That's been a success so far on the brief test ride I had this morning, although I haven't gotten it into the narrow & steep stuff yet where it's most noticeable.

 

[Andeh]

@djjohnr - Cool!

Assuming you have 2mm bushings on both ends? Or just one end? Curious how much physical drop that gives you, and how you perceive it on trail.

I was thinking about your Sentinal comment earlier, and was wondering how much sag you ran? I recall folks going up to 35% on those Transitions...(?)

Anyhow, eager to hear more!

I ran the Sentinel at around 30%-32% sag with the DPX2, and I want to say that was at about 26%-28% with the Push. It was a bitch to get consistent sag measurements on that bike because of the regressive hammock to the sag point. I could get the same measurement with 20 psi difference in the air shock but it would feel massively different on the trail.

For the Smash, I borrowed a friend's Motion Instruments setup early on for a couple rides until it crapped out. It was telling me I was at 28% sag pretty consistently (on the EXT).

 

[djjohnr]

@djjohnr - Cool!

Assuming you have 2mm bushings on both ends? Or just one end? Curious how much physical drop that gives you, and how you perceive it on trail.

I was thinking about your Sentinal comment earlier, and was wondering how much sag you ran? I recall folks going up to 35% on those Transitions...(?)

Anyhow, eager to hear more!

Got a run on the steep/tight stuff this morning and can give a fuller answer -

• Before riding the bike I thought I’d want to run it in the short setting w/160 fork based on published geometry (specifically reach, wheelbase, and fc/rc ratio) and preferences (fork at 160+).
• On my first ride with the fork at stock 150 and in short mode, I found that my ideal carve point (where I like to keep my COG between the wheels for the tightest carves) required me to ride farther back on the bike than I prefer. I was also losing rear traction more frequently.
• Since then I’ve been making changes to mitigate that - moving to the long setting and changing fork travel to 160. Still, for tight corners I’ve had to ride farther back on the bike than I’d prefer trying to decrease the carving radius, and still the bike felt like it was standing up vs dipping and carving.
• With the offset bushing getting low and shifting my hips gets me into a tighter carve without having to shift my weight back, and is more effective than a rearward weight shift without the bushing. I’m getting that dip and carve feeling I was looking for. I have more control over stuffing my rear wheel into catch berms. As a bonus I’m not getting the rear tire ass buzz as much.
• Downsides - seatpost and head angle are slacker, with the commensurate climbing effects. Undecided - the wheelbase is approaching my DH bikes, there’s positives and negatives to that.

 

[marshalolson]

Got a run on the steep/tight stuff this morning and can give a fuller answer -

• Before riding the bike I thought I’d want to run it in the short setting w/160 fork based on published geometry (specifically reach, wheelbase, and fc/rc ratio) and preferences (fork at 160+).
• On my first ride with the fork at stock 150 and in short mode, I found that my ideal carve point (where I like to keep my COG between the wheels for the tightest carves) required me to ride farther back on the bike than I prefer. I was also losing rear traction more frequently.
• Since then I’ve been making changes to mitigate that - moving to the long setting and changing fork travel to 160. Still, for tight corners I’ve had to ride farther back on the bike than I’d prefer trying to decrease the carving radius, and still the bike felt like it was standing up vs dipping and carving.
• With the offset bushing getting low and shifting my hips gets me into a tighter carve without having to shift my weight back, and is more effective than a rearward weight shift without the bushing. I’m getting that dip and carve feeling I was looking for. I have more control over stuffing my rear wheel into catch berms. As a bonus I’m not getting the rear tire ass buzz as much.
• Downsides - seatpost and head angle are slacker, with the commensurate climbing effects. Undecided - the wheelbase is approaching my DH bikes, there’s positives and negatives to that.

Super interesting, and great feedback.

Curious on one thing... how high are your bars? On my Gnarvana, I ended up dropping from a 35mm rise bar (what I ride on basically everything) to a 20mm rise bar (since the HT is actually correctly tall on the GG bikes) for similar things you mention, and it totally fixed it for me. Food for thought anyhow!

 

[marshalolson]

I ran the Sentinel at around 30%-32% sag with the DPX2, and I want to say that was at about 26%-28% with the Push. It was a bitch to get consistent sag measurements on that bike because of the regressive hammock to the sag point. I could get the same measurement with 20 psi difference in the air shock but it would feel massively different on the trail.

For the Smash, I borrowed a friend's Motion Instruments setup early on for a couple rides until it crapped out. It was telling me I was at 28% sag pretty consistently (on the EXT).

Got it and makes sense!

 

[djjohnr]

Super interesting, and great feedback.

Curious on one thing... how high are your bars? On my Gnarvana, I ended up dropping from a 35mm rise bar (what I ride on basically everything) to a 20mm rise bar (since the HT is actually correctly tall on the GG bikes) for similar things you mention, and it totally fixed it for me. Food for thought anyhow!

Bars are 10mm rise. I generally run 20-25mm on 27.5 bikes.

 

[bagtagley]

5’10” with freakish 34.5” inseam. Talk me out of a size 2 long Gnarvana/Smash with high rise bars.

Edit: apparently I don’t have shortish arms, I’ve got a positive ape index.

 

[marshalolson]

5’10” with freakish 34.5” inseam. Talk me out of a size 2 long Gnarvana/Smash with high rise bars.

Edit: apparently I don’t have shortish arms, I’ve got a positive ape index.

yo man!

When In doubt, or feeling between sizes, I’d recommend looking at the Wheelbase length, not reach.

the Gnarvana in particular is a crazy stable and fast bike in part due to the long wheelbase, so sizing down may make sense for you given you body shape

 

[marshalolson]

@bagtagley - one other thing. You probably already know this, but With your inseam length, I’d suggest looking at a super long dropper (200-210mm) to ensure enough insertion in the shorter seat tube.

finally, the head tube is 20mm shorter on the S2, so think thru how much bar drop you want

 

[mtg]

At 5'10" with a positive ape index, a size 2 is too small. Go for the size 3.

 

[Andeh]

5’10” with freakish 34.5” inseam. Talk me out of a size 2 long Gnarvana/Smash with high rise bars.

Edit: apparently I don’t have shortish arms, I’ve got a positive ape index.

I'm 5'8" with the legs of a dachshund (30"), something like a +6cm ape index, on a size 2/long Smash. I apparently now have Gnarvana stays waiting on my doorstep. The reach/ETT on the size 2 feels compact for me, with a 160 fork, 35mm rise bars, and 1x 5mm spacer under the stem. I'll let you know after I change the stays, but I don't expect the cockpit to feel any different, just the amount of effort needed to make certain radius turns. I can't imagine riding a size 2 at your height unless you really wanted a compact 160mm 29er.

 

[bagtagley]

Thanks, @marshalolson. Wheelbase is probably the biggest thing keeping me from jumping on a size 3, though I get nervous about the loooong reach, too. I got a 210mm dropper at the end of last year and I’ll never go back to shorter. I know I’d have to play with spacers and tall bars, but I’m used to that. All my bikes look a little goofy.

I hear you Andeh. My XC bike was built to my proportions and by all measures should ride like crap (short reach, tall stack) but it’s comfy as hell and rips for what it is. It definitely takes some getting used to after coming off another bike, though.

@mtg, kinda wishing I had ordered before I saw your post.

 

[marshalolson]

@bagtagley Tell me more. Where do you live these days? Trails? Current bike? Etc.

fwiw wheelbase @ s3 The Smash is about the same as a s2 Gnarvana.

My view, depending on where you are riding, is that s3 The Smash would make a lot more sense than a s2 Gnarvana at your height.

my other view is that with your proportions, stack is equally or more important than reach/wheelbase. with the much lower stack on the s2, the bike will feel MUCH smaller.

 

[HAB]

@bagtagley Tell me more. Where do you live these days? Trails? Current bike? Etc.

fwiw wheelbase @ s3 The Smash is about the same as a s2 Gnarvana.

My view, depending on where you are riding, is that s3 The Smash would make a lot more sense than a s2 Gnarvana at your height.

my other view is that reach is over blown, and while helpful, it’s not “the one and only measurement”, and stack (especially with your proportions), is equally as important. But with the much lower stack on the s2, the bike will feel MUCH smaller.

I think that's really good advice. Reach is useful in concert with a whole bunch of other stuff, but it's not the be all, end all.

I've ridden a S3 Trail Pistol, Smash and Gnarvana a bunch (I'm 6', ride both in the long setting with a 40-50mm stem FWIW) and think that they're all good bikes, but that the Smash is definitely more versatile than the Gnarvana. Unless you're riding really high speed, steep stuff all the time, the Smash is going to be more fun when you're not charging at 11/10. To be clear, I think that's how it should be, with the middle bike of the range being the super versatile one, and the big bike being pretty focused on being charge-y. That makes sense, and is no knock on the Gnarvana. If it was more versatile, it wouldn't be as good as it is at what it does.

 

[marshalolson]

If GG wanted to make the Gnarvana more versatile... it would look exactly like The Smash! Haha

also, if you do have steep fast trails, the Gnarvana is as good as it gets.

 

[HAB]

If GG wanted to make the Gnarvana more versatile... it would look exactly like The Smash! Haha

Exactly my point!

The Smash is ridiculously good. The Gnarvana does some things better, but the list of things it does really well is shorter.

 

[Radarr]

Just put in an order for an size 3 Smash today. Couple notes for the collective brain trust I learned along the way:

The 30mm bearing eyelet shocks have clearance issues and will not work. I had a 230x60mm RSSD kicking around from a V4 Nomad. I asked about comparability and it was reported to me that they won't work.

You cannot get the plaid decals from the TPSL on the Smash. I tried to explain that it would make the bike go faster, but alas, I received a hard pass.

 

[Andeh]

I just got my Gnarvana stays installed last night, which I'm running in a short travel setup (60mm shock, 160 fork). My local trails are steep & flowy, so I'm thinking it should work out pretty well. I'm stoked to get first ride tomorrow. The geo ended up what I expected, so it's a super modern (trendy) trail bike: 64 HT, 77 ST, 345 BB, 350 CS, 1230 WB. 148/160.

Two questions for @mtg : one of the BAMFs on MTBR mentioned that Crush/Plush on the bikes that have those modes actually changes travel slightly (3mm). Is that correct? I assume Plush is the longer version (i.e. 148 Plush on the Smash). And does the geo for the SD really not change when the travel flip chip changes? I'm trying to make sure that my off-menu configuration spreadsheet is accurate.

 

[bagtagley]

@bagtagley Tell me more. Where do you live these days? Trails? Current bike? Etc.

fwiw wheelbase @ s3 The Smash is about the same as a s2 Gnarvana.

My view, depending on where you are riding, is that s3 The Smash would make a lot more sense than a s2 Gnarvana at your height.

my other view is that with your proportions, stack is equally or more important than reach/wheelbase. with the much lower stack on the s2, the bike will feel MUCH smaller.

Word, that makes a lot of sense, and I'm still pretty good at discounting stack. In my defense I only recently realized that I have weird proportions.

I've got an OG Megatrail, a custom XC bike and a hardtail. They all get ridden, but the MT probably sees the most, and what I really want to do is pare it down to a new GG with stay kits and the hardtail.

the Smash is definitely more versatile than the Gnarvana. Unless you're riding really high speed, steep stuff all the time, the Smash is going to be more fun when you're not charging at 11/10.

I totally agree with both of you that the Gnarvana is overkill for most of the riding I do (central VA). After a long (forced) hiatus, I've been hitting Snowshoe again and am planning to go a good bit next year. My original plan was to replace my OG Megatrail with a new one and slap a burly fork on it for DHy stuff, but I've recently ridden a couple 29ers that not only didn't suck, but were really fun. So, now I'm leaning Gnarvana as my DH, Moab, plow stuff, don't feel like swapping the stays bike. I'd rather swap stays for every bike park trip and have an overall more versatile bike than own a DH bike that doesn't get ridden enough (been there).

 

[marshalolson]

Word, that makes a lot of sense, and I'm still pretty good at discounting stack. In my defense I only recently realized that I have weird proportions.

I've got an OG Megatrail, a custom XC bike and a hardtail. They all get ridden, but the MT probably sees the most, and probably just really want to do is pare it down to a new GG with stay kits and the hardtail.



I totally agree with both of you that the Gnarvana is overkill for most of the riding I do (central VA). After a long (forced) hiatus, I've been hitting Snowshoe again and am planning to go a good bit next year. My original plan was to replace my OG Megatrail with a new one and slap a burly fork on it for DHy stuff, but I've recently ridden a couple 29ers that not only didn't suck, but were really fun. So, now I'm leaning Gnarvana as my DH, Moab, plow stuff, don't feel like swapping the stays bike. I'd rather swap stays for every bike park trip and have an overall more versatile bike than own a DH bike that doesn't get ridden enough (been there).

Yeah man. Right on.

My suggestion would be:
(1) start with S3 The Smash and maybe even just start with a 160mm fork (more stack, less reach).
(2) have Gnarvana stays, and just use em with The Smash’s rear shock, and start with the 160mm fork paired to the tall lower headset cup from GG to make it even more shreddy in Gnarvana mode
(3) after riding it in both configurations, figure out if you need/want different fork or shock shenanigans.

not sure if helpful, but one guys opinion
But is sounds like you are 100% on the right path

 

[jstuhlman]

where you at in central va @bagtagley?

i was in charlottesville for a while back in the day...lots of walnut creek and sherando lakes. hit stuff around richmond occasionally, and every once in a while near roanoke or harrisonburg...

 

[bagtagley]

where you at in central va @bagtagley?

i was in charlottesville for a while back in the day...lots of walnut creek and sherando lakes. hit stuff around richmond occasionally, and every once in a while near roanoke or harrisonburg...

I live about 20 minutes outside Charlottesville. There are plenty of options around here, and I hit Sherando and GWNF a good bit. Roanoke has a pretty big DH scene. I wish I lived closer, there's some great riding down there.

 

[Westy]

I live about 20 minutes outside Charlottesville. There are plenty of options around here, and I hit Sherando and GWNF a good bit. Roanoke has a pretty big DH scene. I wish I lived closer, there's some great riding down there.

I used to be just a bit North of the foof. I miss Sherando and the GWNF.

 

[mtg]

2020 Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana | Blister

BLISTER | Bikes & Frames, Mountain Bike Reviews, Reviews | November 3, 2020 | The most honest & in-depth reviews of outdoor gear

blisterreview.com

@HAB posted his Gnarvana review, with comparisons to The Smash and Trail Pistol

 

[jstuhlman]

nice writeup @HAB

 

[Nick]

nice writeup @HAB

yea, nice job @HAB

 

[vinny4130]

@mtg I’m really sorry if this was asked but what is the opinion of a lowered dual crown fork for the reved frame keeping it in the same axle to crown as the intended s.c. fork. Asking for a friend

 

[mtg]

No

 

[jackalope]

*sigh*

[puts Judy DH back on the wall]

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Hey @mtg, consider this yet another gentle poke about a DH bike. I know there are a solid dozen of us on RM that want it, and at least half of us would actually maybe buy it. You can't afford to pass up that kind of opportunity.

 

[jackalope]

Somebody knowledgeable leaked out on a french forum that both Vergier and Hart would go to 4 letter teams.

Seems fairly obvious at this point: GG/DH

Damn, Matt must've sold a (not from Asia) boatload of Gnarvanas. Good on'em I say, just wish GG could also afford an American like Dak or Luca. Anyway, looking forward to seeing the Revved DH bike