[John P.]

Finally got some Saint cranks from Shimano the other day, and had a chance to fit them up with one of our guides. Some slight mods are necessary, but it will fit up. The only big problem I can foresee is that the effective spindle length (as far as chainguide spacing is concerned) is 113 mm. This makes for a pretty sick chainline, but it spaces the boomerang so close to the frame that there will likely be problems with tire rub and boomerang/frame interference.

Anyway, here are my notes from the install:

Modifications for use with SRS:
-You need to slightly file out Center hole on boomerang (~.5mm) to allow the Saint bearings to pass through the boomerang. Interestingly, the OD of the bearing assembly on the BB is the exact same as the ID of the boomerang hole.
-You need to slightly file down the crank slot on bashring (see photos) to allow the gi-normous crank arm to fit into the bashring.
-You need to slightly file down granny bosses on crank to keep from rubbing on the back plate.
-You need to ditch the Saint Chainring, as it won't really fit on the back of the spider (only really fits on the front of the spider, where the bashring is supposed to be).

Other Notes from the install:
-You need special tools for tightening the BB shells and the weird little bolt that tightens down the whole system at the BB axle/non driveside crank interface. Shimano did not supply either of these.
-Stock BB spacing appears to be similar to a 113, which puts the boomerang very close to the frame - expect tire rub and boomerang/frame interference problems unless BB spacers are used.
-The stock chainring only works on the outer position of the spider
-Weight of the Saint system: 2.2 lbs. (for comparison, I weighed a profile setup with a cromo spindle and it weighed 2.4 pounds).

I think that's about it for now. I'll attach some photos.

--JP

 

[John P.]

Pic from the back side - no spacers needed between backplate and ISCG mount.

 

[John P.]

Photo of the mods that were necessary to the bashring.

 

[dexter]

well ****fire looks like im gonna run middleburn cranks this year thats wayyyy wayyy to heavy jesus. anyone know the weight of a pair of holzfellers with the team dh bb or middleburns with the same bb or a ti one??
thanks

 

[JRogers]

Damn, that is heavy, especially for a Shimano product; usually they are pretty weight conscious for almost all parts. Well, they are probably one of the stiffest sets on the market. Huge beef, outboard bearings and a massive spindle.

 

[Instigator]

John P. , as usual you guys at evil/e13 keep us updated with good info on you products and fit questions. Thank you again for keeping us in the loop.


Rock on

 

[HippieKai]

hey John, you are RAD! i have talked to you on the phone a few times about stuff and you are always more then helpfull. You will be hearing from me next week too. Your great survice and sweet products have convinced me to get a frame and my second guide from you. Good work man! Props

 

[neversummersnow]

Dexter, I am getting a Middleburn order together, lemme know if you want some...call me

(FOR REAL THIS TIME FOOL)

 

[Dirty]

hey, although ive never heard anybody ask this, im sure youve been asked a lot, is e-thirteen gonna come out with a guide assembly for a bmx bb? i saw you had a bmx chain ring that can mount your bash guard, but what about a guide?
thanks

 

[Incubus]

The RF diabolus look to be a good option. They look relatively svelt and use the same style outboard bearings.

 

[sub6]

Wow, it [Saint] saves a whopping 90 grams over a set of PROFILES. Damn. So much for that.....

 

[dhmtbj]

Originally posted by Dirty
hey, although ive never heard anybody ask this, im sure youve been asked a lot, is e-thirteen gonna come out with a guide assembly for a bmx bb? i saw you had a bmx chain ring that can mount your bash guard, but what about a guide?
thanks

I believe the major issue with using a guide on a BMX BB is that the cups press into the frame rather than thread in. This makes keeping a chainguide from loosening an issue. I'm sure if there is more, somebody will chime in

 

[Dirty]

i dont think the cups being pressed rather than threaded is an issue...im using a 24 bicycles guide right now, which just get pressed between the frame and the bb cup...loosening hasnt been an issue. The reason i ask about the evil guide being made for a bmx bb is i would like to run a bash guard...soemthing the 24 guide doesnt allow...

evils new chainring for BMX cranks allows the bash to be mounted to the ring without a spider

shown here
http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=1722 (last picture down)

 

[sub6]

Originally posted by Dirty
i dont think the cups being pressed rather than threaded is an issue...im using a 24 bicycles guide right now, which just get pressed between the frame and the bb cup...loosening hasnt been an issue. The reason i ask about the evil guide being made for a bmx bb is i would like to run a bash guard...soemthing the 24 guide doesnt allow...

evils new chainring for BMX cranks allows the bash to be mounted to the ring without a spider

shown here
http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=1722 (last picture down)

I think the evil guys have posted about this before, something about how the insertion depth of a BMX BB cup is not great enough to support a chainguide without running a risk of damaging [ovalizing?] the BB shell. Generally it's an unwise thing to do, whether 24 does it or not......

At least that's how I remember it.


Edit - a Hopey steering damper works the same way - a plate that's pressed in between your top headset cup and your headtube. A lot of guys ovalized their headtubes using the damper, because they didn't run a deep-cup headset. I'm not aware of a deep-cup BMX BB cup.....

 

[Colin]

Gusset makes a press-in BMX bb cup that features ISCG mounts. Thus, you can run a chainguide with an American/BMX bb.

 

[John P.]

Originally posted by Dirty
hey, although ive never heard anybody ask this, im sure youve been asked a lot, is e-thirteen gonna come out with a guide assembly for a bmx bb? i saw you had a bmx chain ring that can mount your bash guard, but what about a guide?
thanks

Before this thread gets completely bastardized, we have never made a BMX-specific guide because the economics of it just didn't work. I think we figured that we *might* be able to sell 100 BMX guides per year, and at those relatively low quantities, the price for the guide would sky rocket.

Along similar lines, we have developed a new ISCG standard for '05 that most companies in the industry have already signed onto that will solve BMX problems in the future. Among other things, ISCG05 basically moves the chainguide mount points out further from the center of the BB so BMX, Euro, and the new oversized ISIS (called either 'overdrive' or 'mega drive' depending on who you ask) can all use the same standard.

As for our Crown Ring chainwheel, it can be used very well for BMX applications, but the main impetus of developing it was to solve the problem of poorly designed/manufactured spiders on 3-piece cranks. With the C-Ring (imagine Spoony Luv's voice), you mount the ring directly to the crank and ditch the spider all together. That may help your situation, Dirty, but if not, I think Blackspire makes a pretty decent BMX-compatible guide.

I hope this answers your questions sufficiently.

Now let's get back to discussing Saint/SRS compatibility!!!

--JP

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by John P.
Now let's get back to discussing Saint/SRS compatibility!!!

--JP

I'm not a religious man, but there's got to be something wrong about mounting an Evil guide on a Saint crankset.

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by ohio
I'm not a religious man, but there's got to be something wrong about mounting an Evil guide on a Saint crankset.

I find that it's quite the perfect mating actually!:devil:

 

[Dirty]

ooo...that sounds like a good alternative....got a website or some more info on them?

 

[Jeremy R]

Um, I just got PMed by a guy who could not find this thread so I am bringing it back to like for him.

 

[Tenacious Doug]

Well I had already ordered my Saints when I came across this (while researching for a new chain device), certainly makes interesting reading and now wondering whether the Saints are going to be more trouble than they are worth. I accept that chain device fitting often relies on a bit of modification to get it working good but it just seems that the Saint setup is making it even worse, and apparently it will stop me running a tyre thicker than 2.3", so thats a new tyre and new chainring on top of the chainguide and crankset just to get it to fit properly.........too much effort in my book.

Dont want to hijack the thread away from the topic of the SRS guide but what experiences has anyone had of fitting to other chainguides on the market?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by ohio
I'm not a religious man, but there's got to be something wrong about mounting an Evil guide on a Saint crankset.

Well its kinda on the lines of mounting a religious little slut. It's just fun


Sorry for the temporary derailment

 

[nick1111]

Does anyone foresee any problems with running the Evil SRS with Saint cranks on a Banshee Scream? I want to buy an SRS/Saint cranks for my Scream.

thanks

 

[Lejk]

Sorry for talking a little bit of topic, but I feel that there have been so much talk about how heavy the Saints are, so I just felt I have to point out one thing...

I made som comparison between the Saint cranks and some of the other popular alu cranks. I added the weight of the top DH bb from each brand, weight of the chainring is also included for all but the profiles and middleburns:

Saint: 999g
Profile: 1089g
Holzfeller: 999g
Hussefelt: 1099g
Northshore: 1075g
Evolve: 1150g
Middleburn: 763g

To get hold of the weight of all of these cranks, bb etc. I used the homepages of Raceface and Truativ. For the Middleburn I used CRC. The specs. for The Saints and Profiles I used the same as stated earlier in this thread. I also have found an older spec on the Profiles from a MBUK mag from 2001 that claims a weight of 1145g...

Well what are my conlusion from this..

Chill out guys, they aren't THAT heavy.. they just aren't as light as the old XTR DH-cranks. But then againg then only cost around £160 (I got them for £130), so what did you expect?

 

[nick1111]

Originally posted by nick1111
Does anyone foresee any problems with running the Evil SRS with Saint cranks on a Banshee Scream? I want to buy an SRS/Saint cranks for my Scream.

thanks

Has anyone tested this combo yet? I wonder about swingarm/boomerang clearance.

 

[punkassean]

i am running Saint on my stinky and I weighed my bike with MRP bones and then again with saint and bones sys 2 guide. The before weight was 41.25 and after was 40.5 (.75lb less) That helps to compensate for the added weight off the Swinger 6 way and WTB timberwolf 2.5 super duty tires I just put on. bringing the weight back up to around 42lbs. I guess bones are more like the profile SS cranks weight wise. I can say that saint is light and every bit as stiff as bones. as far the saint chainring only working on the outside you can use the same file that you used to clearance your bashring and boomerang hole to remove about 1 mil from each arm . the bolt holes will still center the ring. that is what I had to do on the MRP bones. I really like shimano rings and the saint ring is light. Hooray for saint!!! side note, I installed an evil SRS on some Kona cro-mo ISIS bulge cranks and it was so easy and works perfect. Hooray for EVIL!!! maybe once I get bored of bones I will get an Evil...thanks evil, for being a "core"company and making truly innovative products that help push our sport and give riders one or two fewer things to worry about!

 

[firevsh2o]

I ordered a set of Race Face Diabolus cranks with the new bottom bracket system (Saint like) and I'm now wondering if they work with my Evil SRS. (Yes I can give them back if they don't work) I have a 73 mm bottom bracket and no changuide tabs on my bike and that may be sort of a problem I guess.

Has anybody mounted such a combination yet? Do you see any problems?

 

[DHS]

um, the new Raceface cranks with that BB type, won't be avalible till Spring. so you got some months to go.

 

[nick1111]

Where did you order the diabolus cranks?

 

[firevsh2o]

I ordered them at my LBS (in Austria) - I hope they are here till the end of february. My dealer said he is able to say me the definite date next week. He'll get them with his first stock shippment, he said.

What shipping dates have you heard?

 

[DHS]

well i just talked to the guys at Race Face and they're saying not till like May or so.

 

[mosh]

One would asume that it would be the same with a pair of XT's ? What cranks could you use that would not need any mods to your guide?

 

[mtbdirteater]

Originally posted by John P.
<snip> Other Notes from the install:
-You need special tools for tightening the BB shells and the weird little bolt that tightens down the whole system at the BB axle/non driveside crank interface. Shimano did not supply either of these. <snip>

--JP

That rots. They look like exactly the same bearings (and therefore tools) that come with the current 960 Shimano XTR cranks. No tools included, eh?! I have not looked in a Saint crank retail box yet. Mine were under the bottom box flap in my XTR box. I'd call Shimano: any proprietary fasteners or gear that do not come with the specialized tools to install them, or where those tools are not made readily available, are an obvious problem for us suckers that buy them. Not acceptable in my book.

Dave

 

[Slacker]

Originally posted by mtbdirteater
That rots. They look like exactly the same bearings (and therefore tools) that come with the current 960 Shimano XTR cranks. No tools included, eh?! I have not looked in a Saint crank retail box yet. Mine were under the bottom box flap in my XTR box. I'd call Shimano: any proprietary fasteners or gear that do not come with the specialized tools to install them, or where those tools are not made readily available, are an obvious problem for us suckers that buy them. Not acceptable in my book.

Dave

Exactly!

Thanks to whoever brought back this thread. You just saved me some $$

Looks like it's old school XT BB and some Badger FR cranks for me.

 

[John P.]

Originally posted by mosh
One would asume that it would be the same with a pair of XT's ? What cranks could you use that would not need any mods to your guide?

Pretty much every other crankset on the market. Seriously. I can't really think of any other that won't work with our guides.

--JP

 

[nick1111]

Will Diabolus work fine?

 

[sub6]

Originally posted by nick1111
Will Diabolus work fine?

Well, given that Diabolus cranks are not out yet, and will likely not be released until "May" (which means mid-summer at BEST in the industry), I think you're asking an awful lot of Mr. Pentecost there. They need to actually test the cranks first to answer your question...

Originally posted by DHS
well i just talked to the guys at Race Face and they're saying not till like May or so.

 

[nick1111]

Why is Diabolus starting to appear in suppliers' databases if it won't be available till May? That's not typical.

 

[Zark]

It looks like there is a fit problem with MRP's too. My friend Curt just picked up a System 1 ISCG guide for his Big Hit. He said the bash ring looked like it needed to be cut. I haven't seen it to confirm.

Anyone else encountered this? I seem to remember seeing mrp's on Saint cranks and not cut up.

 

[Eurotrash]

for a big hit you need a sys 2 mrp (the one with only 1 rotating plate)