[dragontalesdh]

Hey guys I'm looking into selling my santa cruz v10 to replace it with a carbon specialized enduro. I still race competitive DH but feel that the 10 inches in the back is way too much. Specially since there are guys around here winning races on hardtails. Would a carbon enduro stand up to the abuse of dh racing or please suggest other more comparable bikes. I really want a bike I can race on but be able to pedal up the hill just as easily. Suggestions please

 

[iRider]

.... but feel that the 10 inches in the back is way too much.

That is what she said....

 

[supercow]

It's scary what can be done on a 160mm travel bike, especially something like the enduro.

Comparable, I reckon the Ibis Mojo HD carbon would be immense.

 

[downhill mike]

I think it depends on where you race. For example; at Whiteface you would want a full on dh bike.
Are the racers on hard tails winning downhill races on their bikes?

 

[?????]

I'm guessing by his location he races the legendary Fontana Dam Jam Downhill. The Enduro would be a lot more useful bike there.

 

[jackalope]

Agree about Fontana, but on the other hand he is probably close enough to Windrock to get out there regularly - in which case, full-on DH rig all day.

 

[milohead]

Agree about Fontana, but on the other hand he is probably close enough to Windrock to get out there regularly - in which case, full-on DH rig all day.

agree, while you "could" ride windrock on an Enduro I can't imagine it would be to fun. He is a pretty good rider though and on the Enduro would still be faster than me there. If I was to choose a bike that I could ride full dh on and still pedals damn well I would take the Session. I loved mine and it got me to the top (with some effort)

 

[milohead]

.....and I sure as hell would not ride a carbon Enduro at Windrock. A carbon dh rig sure but not a 6 inch bike

 

[norbar]

.....and I sure as hell would not ride a carbon Enduro at Windrock. A carbon dh rig sure but not a 6 inch bike

Why that makes a differance?

 

[Pslide]

I think the next generation of 29er aggro trail bikes are gonna be where it's at for Enduro type DH. I'm on a proto Banshee Prime and it's amazing how fast it is on mild downhills and still climbs well. Yeti's SB95, Kona Satori, Norco Shinobi also in this category. With 2.4 Ardents or Minions, they have amazing grip, corner hard, jump great, very stable at high speeds, and still go up the hill. Takes a few rides to get used to bigger wheels, but I'm pretty much converted - especially for Enduro type riding. You're not going to win any style awards, but they are pretty darn good at going fast.

 

[milohead]

Why that makes a differance?

Windrock is a brutal dh destination and 6 inch's will consistently bottom out. I don't know I just feel you would constantly put stress on the frame.

 

[norbar]

Windrock is a brutal dh destination and 6 inch's will consistently bottom out. I don't know I just feel you would constantly put stress on the frame.

2012 called - it sayz carbonz is stronger. Especially in case of stress. Also if you bottom too often your suspension is set up wrong.

 

[jackalope]

I also think (modern) carbon frame offerings are stronger than their alum counterparts, but I also concur with Milo's point of "yeah, you *could* ride it on a 6 inch AM bike, but it wouldn't be much fun". The Rock has gotten a fair bit rougher in the past few years, which I didn't think was possible awhile back, and I would certainly never consider the DH trails as "enduro" - regardless of wheel size. The locals say the "XC" trails in that area are epic, so that's where I would think an Enduro would be ideal.

 

[milohead]

2012 called - it sayz carbonz is stronger. Especially in case of stress. Also if you bottom too often your suspension is set up wrong.

I think regardless off suspension setup bottoming out a 6" bike is inevitable at windrock

 

[norbar]

I think regardless off suspension setup bottoming out a 6" bike is inevitable at windrock

Im in yurp. Never seen windrock but after seeing Wildhaber smoking me on an inside super rocky line on his Enduro treck on megavalanche when I was on an 8inch dh rig makes me think it is not. I think it depends on your riding style and susp setup, even on insane courses.

 

[jackalope]

I think regardless off suspension setup bottoming out a 6" bike is inevitable at windrock

I doubt I would bottom a 6" bike, as I would be walking most sections

As for your example Norbar, there are tons (i.e. 99%) of dudes that are faster than me on their AM bike than I am on my DH bike, even on super chunk, but it still doesn't mean the DH bike isn't the best option for me on legit DH trails.

 

[norbar]

I doubt I would bottom a 6" bike, as I would be walking most sections

As for your example Norbar, there are tons (i.e. 99%) of dudes that are faster than me on their AM bike than I am on my DH bike, even on super chunk, but it still doesn't mean the DH bike isn't the best option for me on legit DH trails.

I don't claim it isn't. I just don't belive the argument you only need a dh bike because you will bottom the crap out of your am bike and your carbonz will turn your scrotum into a sail.

 

[jackalope]

will turn your scrotum into a sail.

Sadly, old age has already taken care of that. However, I am looking into fabricating a carbon nut bra to help keep things in place when I'm getting radical.

Btw, since we've fully hijacked this thread, what was your thinking about using a DH bike for a megavalanche race (not bashing, just wondering)?

 

[norbar]

Sadly, old age has already taken care of that. However, I am looking into fabricating a carbon nut bra to help keep things in place when I'm getting radical.

Btw, since we've fully hijacked this thread, what was your thinking about using a DH bike for a megavalanche race (not bashing, just wondering)?

I was only riding, not racing. A friend started and we had some discounts thanks to that. I decided way to late to race it but I rode the whole course a day or two before.

It is doable since the uphill isn't crazy steep or long but some slight modifications will help you. Preferably 60a tires, a bit highter pressure and don't do what I did - use a 11-21T casette. A dropper post would help too. That track will kill you no matter the gear but I have a friend who gets around top 100 on a dh bike.

btw. If you want to try it go back to back with MTN of hell which is a week later.

 

[yuroshek]

Small bikes FTW!!!

Look for a frame with good geo, pair it will good suspension and you are set!

 

[jackalope]

Damn it Dennis, you're from from the East Coast, so you know we're taking about East Coast Rox here - not that pillowy soft sandstone you have in AZ. If you moved back here, you'd have to sell your Distortion (but not to Dropmachine of course) and buy yourself a real huck wagon.

But back to the OP's question, I'd say an AM bike is great for everything short of pounding out Windrock runs every other weekend.

 

[milohead]

I think it depends on your riding style and susp setup, even on insane courses.

I agree with this

I doubt I would bottom a 6" bike, as I would be walking most sections

As for your example Norbar, there are tons (i.e. 99%) of dudes that are faster than me on their AM bike than I am on my DH bike, even on super chunk, but it still doesn't mean the DH bike isn't the best option for me on legit DH trails.

Especially if your considering racing competitively

 

[Lelandjt]

I bottom out my V10 and regularly crush rear rim sidewalls despite running 34psi in 2.7 Minions. I couldn't race DH on any 160mm frame or its tires/rims.

 

[Wa-Aw]

I've gone between DH and Mini DH before and I'll say a well set up DH bike will always be faster than a short travel bike on even the friendlies of DH courses. If guys are winning on hardtails it's because they are better riders.

But I do find smaller bikes to be more fun in general, they just don't carry speed as well as big bikes. Big bikes these days are built so well they pedal and pump decently well. Maybe not a big V10, but you could go for a smaller DH bike like a Session as said earlier.

I've been on a Scythe, an M9, an Uzzi and currently a Session. Around here most courses are friendly with a few hard core ones here and there. I miss my M9, a lot. Even on the smooth DH's. Thing with big bikes is they carry speed so well and you can pedal anywhere and corner anything, it's almost cheating when racing against a smaller bike. BUT the M9 was a pretty dull ride. No thrill. Made local trails seem boring. Felt like I had to risk my life to feel "on the edge."

2c

 

[Pslide]

...I'll say a well set up DH bike will always be faster than a short travel bike on even the friendlies of DH courses.

That may be true for you and where you live. Where I live here in Ohio, most of our DH courses are "friendly" (aka *lame* compared to other places I've lived), and my 140mm travel 29er is faster than my DH bike.

Of course, I have my DH bike setup with 2-ply supertackys w/ tubes, and my trail bike setup with 1ply tubeless, so there is a couple seconds right there on a flattish downhill course.

I could bump up the spring rates on my DH bike, go to single ply tires and probably get it running as fast as my Prime. But it still only goes down, whereas the Prime goes up and down.

 

[dragontalesdh]

I bottom out my V10 and regularly crush rear rim sidewalls despite running 34psi in 2.7 Minions. I couldn't race DH on any 160mm frame or its tires/rims.

You sir are what I like to call a steam roller. "Get out the way I'm rollin over everything"
Anyways. My biggest problem with my v10 is that it pedals like half dry concrete. While I'm still capable of winning races thanks to its unnatural smoothness it offers id rather be able to take a few pedal strokes and hop over rocks rather than be forced to slam into them. I'm a very light rider as far as style goes so iv completely abandond my v10 this year for all but windrock. Its the only place I feel its necessary. Everywhere else I'm rockin a 4" xc frame on a 5" marz FR fork and I'm smokin the times I used to be putting down on the sled. I ride a lot of xc and feel like if I could just have a bike that's burly enough to withstand the abuse of downhill but be able to pedal like my little bike then id be set. I don't need as much suspension cause iv grown up on hardtail and rigid.

 

[norbar]

I bottom out my V10 and regularly crush rear rim sidewalls despite running 34psi in 2.7 Minions. I couldn't race DH on any 160mm frame or its tires/rims.

Play with susp settings if you bottom out a v10 it may not have a wall of progressiveness but Ive ridden an undersprung v10 for me and it wasnt the most easily bottomable bike I tried.
Also I know many people who build enduro bikes with 2ply tires and fr rims like 721s. They are still light and rideable. Not that I encourage racing on enduro bikes. DH bikes will be faster on any course thats more gnarly than an enduro course but it doesnt mean you cant have fun racing on a 160/170 uphillable bike.

 

[dragontalesdh]

Also i there is one guy from new jersey who is always down here at the southern races who has been on a hardtail as long as I can remember. He is maga fast for what it is and he just a few weeks ago upgrade to a 4" 4x bike and is faster than me. I know I could confortably race places like snowshoe and beech on 6" what bikes are out there in that range?

 

[iRider]

It is funny, a year ago everybody on here was convinced that a 61° HA/12" BB bike is absolutely needed to be competitive on anything with a slight downslope. Now you guys are telling me a 5" 29er is good enough to race DH on?
Why don't you try out what works for you yourself? Stopwatch or Freelap anyone?

 

[norbar]

It is funny, a year ago everybody on here was convinced that a 61° HA/12" BB bike is absolutely needed to be competitive on anything with a slight downslope. Now you guys are telling me a 5" 29er is good enough to race DH on?
Why don't you try out what works for you yourself? Stopwatch or Freelap anyone?

I think they still think that. There is a differance between the fastest race bike and a bike you can race dh on

 

[William42]

get a DH bike, and take lessons from chris kovarik. Then, you can have the best of both worlds - a bike that can monstertruck through everything, and be nimble enough to do anything!

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/231118/

 

[weedkilla]

get a DH bike, and take legs from chris kovarik.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/231118/

FIFY, watched him at the the Aussie nats (maybe 2011) make his M9 look like a YZ450 in a flat rocky straight, most amazing display of raw power I've ever seen.

 

[drkenan]

get a DH bike, and take lessons from chris kovarik. Then, you can have the best of both worlds - a bike that can monstertruck through everything, and be nimble enough to do anything!

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/231118/

Holy titty balls I can't wait to go back to Whistler.

 

[Sghost]

I bottom out my V10 and regularly crush rear rim sidewalls despite running 34psi in 2.7 Minions. I couldn't race DH on any 160mm frame or its tires/rims.

You're supposed to huck off the loading docks.

 

[gemini2k]

Windrock is a brutal dh destination and 6 inch's will consistently bottom out. I don't know I just feel you would constantly put stress on the frame.

Alright, its not THAT brutal. A burly 6" bike would be just fine there.

 

[Pslide]

It is funny, a year ago everybody on here was convinced that a 61° HA/12" BB bike is absolutely needed to be competitive on anything with a slight downslope. Now you guys are telling me a 5" 29er is good enough to race DH on?
Why don't you try out what works for you yourself? Stopwatch or Freelap anyone?

Did you read the original post? The OP is looking for advice for a bike he can race mild enduro style DHs and pedal up the hill.

 

[Wa-Aw]

You are looking for the one bike. It's always going to be a compromise.

If you have the coin to build up a really really nice one bike I'd recommend splitting the coin and 2 decently good 2nd hand old model bikes that fit the purpose you want better.

Or you can just build up a ridiculously expensive 29lb Session 9.9 and put a hammerschmidt on it.

 

[norbar]

You are looking for the one bike. It's always going to be a compromise.

If you have the coin to build up a really really nice one bike I'd recommend splitting the coin and 2 decently good 2nd hand old model bikes that fit the purpose you want better.

Or you can just build up a ridiculously expensive 29lb Session 9.9 and put a hammerschmidt on it.

It would still be a worse am bike due to angles. You would also need to swap wheels or at least tires.

 

[clarkenstein]

or at least tires.

yep, and trust me on this one - swapping tires gets old fast. i've been doing trail rides on my holy rollers for a long time now. i use my hardtail for everything, and have been doing a lot of street stuff lately. for my first few trail rides after i got the holy rollers i went through the effort of taking off the street tires and putting the knobbies back on. it's a PITA so the street tires have stayed since i'm lazy and never get around to changing them.

i need a new wheelset. but i also would rather just get eaterofdog's because that he's selling and keep the knobbies on my hardtail full time. but that's a whole other thread of trying to convince the wife that i NEED that bike.

 

[dragontalesdh]

To clear things up I'm a very competitive dh racer and I'm planning on doing some super d events this year as well. The fact is there are no tracks here in the south that need even 8 inches of travel. All the GROM kids and now a bunch others are all racing on 7". You guys have helped me a lot. Ill be looking for a carbon enduro soon. Or ibis mojo hd. Cheers