[Udi]

So the last thread here on this I answered myself, but as I'm currently working on a hub that's not mine I thought I better ask. I've done this job before, and have the splined ring nut tool. However the hub design is terrible and I decided to never buy one again so haven't had to deal with it again until now.

Do they always take a huge amount of leverage to undo? I read this on mtbr which sounds the same as the last time I had to undo one:

I have found that the amount of leverage needed to remove the hub insert is around two strong people on the wheel with a very solid bench vice to hold the DT tool.

The reason I ask is that the last hub I did this on, the process went fine, but a few months of riding after the successful bearing change, the hub flanges cracked off. No doubt they were heavily fatigued by the "2 people levering the wheel" equivalent of force put through it. Granted that was a Hugi FR and they've updated the 440 shells to be stronger (possibly for this reason) but I'm not sure how much stronger.

Has anyone done this successfully and had their hub a) not break, and b) last a long time afterwards?

 

[Jm_]

Never had the 440, I did have the 340 and 240 and they required no tools to disassemble and replace the ring-drive units.

 

[Dogboy]

Do they always take a huge amount of leverage to undo?

That would make sense since it is essentially the equivalent of removing a threaded freewheel from a hub where all of the torque from the rider has gone into that ring nut. I've removed plenty of freewheels where it required the tool in a bench vise and one or two people to break the freewheel loose. As long as you apply steady, even pressure to the wheel I can't imagine it would damage or weaken the hub.

 

[HardtailHack]

Surely some penetrant, the proper tool and a rattle gun would be the safest way to do it?
Not sure if this site is legit but the tool is cheap-
http://www.sellutionmtb.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TL-RN01

 

[big-ted]

I've never been able to remove mine without using an acetylene torch to heat the area, but I have done this a few times on the same hub now.


I too hate DT hubs...

 

[Udi]

I've never been able to remove mine without using an acetylene torch to heat the area, but I have done this a few times on the same hub now.

I too hate DT hubs...

I wondered this, did it make it noticeably easier? Will give it a go, thanks.

And yeah - for anyone considering buying these hubs, don't.

Never had the 440, I did have the 340 and 240 and they required no tools to disassemble and replace the ring-drive units.

On the 440 the threaded "ring nut" (not ring drive) is smaller than the drive-side main bearing, so you have to remove it to change the bearing, which is conveniently the only bearing that usually fails / becomes rough. Because it's tightened by drive torque, it's a collosal nightmare to remove.

Not sure if this site is legit but the tool is cheap

As stated in the first post, I already have the tool (you can't do anything without it). I was asking for people who had actually done the job before, because it's certainly *not* easy to get it undone as big-ted just reiterated. Might try the rattle gun if the torch fails though.

 

[HardtailHack]

Oops, yeah I'm pretty selective on what I read.

A can of compressed air flipped upside down should do a similar thing if you spray it on the ring.

 

[big-ted]

I wondered this, did it make it noticeably easier? Will give it a go, thanks.

On the 440 the threaded "ring nut" (not ring drive) is smaller than the drive-side main bearing, so you have to remove it to change the bearing, which is conveniently the only bearing that usually fails / becomes rough. Because it's tightened by drive torque, it's a collosal nightmare to remove.

Well, I was swinging on the wheel with the tool in a vice, and couldn't get it out prior to heating it, so yeah, I guess it did make it easier!

I've seen pro mechanics rip flanges off the hub trying to get a seized ring out by just applying too much torque to the wheel, so yeah, I figure anything I could do to reduce the torque required was a good thing.

Interesting that it's only the 440 that's designed like this. I'd assumed all DT hubs were the same and sworn off them all for life...

 

[Udi]

I was thinking the same thing. My heat gun that I was using on it decided to die mid-warmup so I thought I'd post a thread instead of swinging off it.

We're clearly on the same page. Thanks!

 

[rollertoaster]

I've done 2. Made my own tool by welding a socket to an old star ratchet. It usually takes one person holding the wheel while I go hulk on a breaker bar. The upside is the freewheel side bearing seems to last for a very long time.

 

[kidwoo]

I've done one bearing change and one axle change in a hub I've had for about 4 years.

Yup. Sucks donkey balls but I didn't end up having to use enough force to break the damn thing or anything.

I've been riding the hub for two seasons since the last tear down.

 

[big-ted]

Yup. Sucks donkey balls but I didn't end up having to use enough force to break the damn thing or anything.

Clearly, you pedal like a wuss...

 

[kidwoo]

It's on a dh bike.

Pedaling is for not a dh bike.

 

[DirtMerchant]

As mentioned, torch the body or freeze the ring drive and put the tool in a vise.

Imagine trying to do this with a bare hub...

 

[Electric_City]

From a CNC machinist here, have someone tapping the hub with brass/aluminum while you're applying pressure to the rim. The vibration will break the bind loose. EC

 

[HardtailHack]

I sorta retract my comment about freeze spraying it, as the driver is steel and the shell is alloy it may not work all that well. Heating alloy makes it expand quite a bit in very little time so that would be better, listen to the people above.

 

[slimshady]

It's on a dh bike.

Pedaling is for not a dh bike.

According to the Rampage commentators, "every pedal stroke takes away speed", so I believe you're up to something here...

 

[Lelandjt]

So this is the splined steel insert that the star ratchet slides into? I'm not familiar with the 440, just the 240 and 350. Is it threaded into them as well? I've never had to change one so never really inspected it. How do you damage that part?

 

[Udi]

So this is the splined steel insert that the star ratchet slides into? I'm not familiar with the 440, just the 240 and 350. Is it threaded into them as well? I've never had to change one so never really inspected it. How do you damage that part?

Read post #6. It's the part that the star ratchet slides into, thus tightens (and essentially seizes) over time, as drive torque increases torque on the threaded nut itself. No one damages anything, but on the 440 you have to remove the nut to change the bearing.

 

[Lelandjt]

Ahh. To change the bearing. But in the 350 and 240 it can be left in?

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

I never understood the obsession about DT anything really. DT stuff to me seems a lot like Crank Bross stuff, the only comparative advantage in relation to other offerings is higher price.

 

[Dogboy]

DT stuff to me seems a lot like Crank Bross stuff, the only comparative advantage in relation to other offerings is higher price.

That's a terrible comparison. All of DT's higher end stuff (rims, spokes, hubs) is extremely well made and as good as pretty much any other brand out there. I can understand the criticism of something like the central hub bearing being a b!tch to remove due to the star ratchet design, but on the whole everything is quality.

 

[Jm_]

I never understood the obsession about DT anything really. DT stuff to me seems a lot like Crank Bross stuff, the only comparative advantage in relation to other offerings is higher price.

I had nothing but great experiences with their hubs and various types of spokes, but then a gain, I never bought their low-end stuff.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

That's a terrible comparison. All of DT's higher end stuff (rims, spokes, hubs) is extremely well made and as good as pretty much any other brand out there. I can understand the criticism of something like the central hub bearing being a b!tch to remove due to the star ratchet design, but on the whole everything is quality.

Dunno man, for hubs I would go with Hope over DT anyday. For spokes I would always go with Sapim CX-Ray If I cared about weight and/or durability. And for rims I am not rich enough to use DT.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah I'm with JM and dogboy. I've had a lot of dt swiss stuff. This one setup with this one particular hub is about the only annoying thing I've dealt with. Crankbothers stuff just fails. Not a real apt comparison.

 

[Jm_]

And hope (although I have 3 brand new hubs sitting here) charges a LOT for off-the-shelf bearings and standard shimano-style freewheel mechanisms. Less than a CK or Hadley, but more than an XT which is arguably just as good.

 

[Lelandjt]

I'd put the DT 350 about even with the Hope Evo but the Hopes I've touched always seemed kind of draggy. I know they're really well sealed but it feels like more than that. Like bad tolerances or something making the bearings feel really tight. Also the DT axle end caps and freebub can be pulled off without tools so it's super quick to clean and lube or change to a different axle standard.
The DT 240 is significantly lighter than the Hope Evo. The only hubs as lighter or lighter than it (AmClassic, Tune) have questionable durability.
I'll agree that Sapim CX-Rays are on par with DT Aerolites and much cheaper.
If you live in the western US it's so quick and easy to get parts (I've gotten freehubs and axle conversion end caps) from DT's North American office in Grand Junction. I guess if you live in the UK you could say the same about Hope.

I've owned Hope Evo and AmClassic hubs but currently run DT 240s on all my wheelsets. "It is so choice. If you have the means I highly recommend picking one up."*

*Bonus points if you recognize the movie quote.

 

[kidwoo]

bueller..............


bueller...........