Plattekill DS/2x is the ****.
DS Vs. 4x
- Thread starter downhiller2010
- Start date
Some pics of my personal DS Y-style course - seperate DS top section
with 4xish bottom half. I throw down with friends for a backyard style
race a couple times a year. Photos I stole from Brady @ Derailedonline.com
check the site for race pics. I built and maintain the course and Dj's meself.
I said F@#k it! Nobody else puts in the effort I'll put on my own races on a kick azz course. Pay out bigger than Nationals and prizes through 5th.
Racers in the 5-8 spots battle it out for 5th - last podium spot - to make sure
everyone gets their money's worth. Check it!
with 4xish bottom half. I throw down with friends for a backyard style
race a couple times a year. Photos I stole from Brady @ Derailedonline.com
check the site for race pics. I built and maintain the course and Dj's meself.
I said F@#k it! Nobody else puts in the effort I'll put on my own races on a kick azz course. Pay out bigger than Nationals and prizes through 5th.
Racers in the 5-8 spots battle it out for 5th - last podium spot - to make sure
everyone gets their money's worth. Check it!
Some MOre!!!!
Metal Dude
That looks awesome. I am sure you put a ton of effort into building that. Is that in Georgia?
That looks awesome. I am sure you put a ton of effort into building that. Is that in Georgia?
That right there is the reason 4X sucks for me both as a spectator and a rider. I only ride the bmx track (on a cruiser) to work on pumping and being smooth. I'm not a gate monster - I always caught up by being smooth and picking good lines and being aggressive in the corners. I don't know if I ever got the jump on anyone, lol, but I felt like most times I had a chance.
That was fun. Big 4x course for the pros and fun DS course for us regular joes.
Yep, recognize the Red GA Clay?
It's good when it's dry but when wet it may as well be cement.
I have been in this spot for 9yrs. and counting, Voreis told me "build your own course" and so I did.
I used to change it up at least twice a season, when I rode there everyother day it would get old
Now I have a two year old, so I get out there once or twice in a good week, along with other riding
Peeps are lazy, you want to be good and have a spot to ride - whatever genre? DO IT! end of story
Wisconsin was my favorite course ever in 4x even though there wasn't much passing. A few pros got heli rides to the hospital.
You could tell almost all the big names even had there butt clinched there.
I just remember before practice, Cedric -while doing a front wheel balance on TOP of the gate looking back at us and saying "We are all Pussies if we donot jump everything first run"
And then he was the only one who did it, pinned - incredible
I played it very smart and took the entire practice to hit everything, lastly that step-up coming down off the hill.
Guess I'm a puss - but in one piece....
Made me feel a little better to see you guys looking "mortal" out there.
That was a Team Big Bear effort when they seemed to have things together.
There were a couple good slaloms and MTX courses that year. That kid Mitchell was working 'building' courses for some events that year.
4x looked to be promising that year, with a few kinks to be ironed out, like flat starts for one. and needed more passing.
It's just hard to build a good 4x course or any course for AMs and Pros....
The next year courses were horrible, Snowshoe and Idaho were the worst ever. And neither were all that safe, for Pros or AMs
There were a couple good slaloms and MTX courses that year. That kid Mitchell was working 'building' courses for some events that year.
4x looked to be promising that year, with a few kinks to be ironed out, like flat starts for one. and needed more passing.
It's just hard to build a good 4x course or any course for AMs and Pros....
The next year courses were horrible, Snowshoe and Idaho were the worst ever. And neither were all that safe, for Pros or AMs
Classic pic. Is Lolli still riding/racing?
out comes the stick
DS is way more exciting for the fans to watch if it is run right - with an announcer. You have head-to-head competition plus a second race where you have a chance to come back and redeem yourself. The Sea Otter DS course is the all-time best course IMO. Riders come from around the world to compete there. There is absolutely nothing special about that course and it is easily constructed. It has one of the biggest fan turn-outs for the weekend and the racers really have fun riding.
I raced the 2001 NORBA season, which was the last season for DS. All of the courses were awesome. Mammoth was run inside, and outside, of the half pipe. Utah had some big doubles and challenging turns. Big Bear was fun, and local for me. Snowshoe was pretty good for the am's except for the uphill section of the course and the pro's got rained out.The fan turnout was good, even for the am. classes. The sport was at a high point.
Then MX came along. The courses were 1-lined and there was usually a big first turn crash in every am. race because some guy thought he needed to pass everyone in the first turn. That gets old for the fans because they think that the only skill you need is to make it to the first turn first. The time it took to run the event was really short, there were no consolation races (not that we needed them but the races were expensive and most people didn't feel they got their money's worth) and the rider turn-out was minimal. They never get to see true bike handling skills like you see in DS. On top of the crappy racing, you had crappy courses. The course builders did not have access to good equipment, time, or labor. The courses were never "burned in" and you had the wrong people building the course (i.e. Herbold in Colorado).
At least with a DS course you can built it quickly, and it's not all about a smooth, BMX style, course. It's about skills and strategy (on the entire run).
I raced the 2001 NORBA season, which was the last season for DS. All of the courses were awesome. Mammoth was run inside, and outside, of the half pipe. Utah had some big doubles and challenging turns. Big Bear was fun, and local for me. Snowshoe was pretty good for the am's except for the uphill section of the course and the pro's got rained out.The fan turnout was good, even for the am. classes. The sport was at a high point.
Then MX came along. The courses were 1-lined and there was usually a big first turn crash in every am. race because some guy thought he needed to pass everyone in the first turn. That gets old for the fans because they think that the only skill you need is to make it to the first turn first. The time it took to run the event was really short, there were no consolation races (not that we needed them but the races were expensive and most people didn't feel they got their money's worth) and the rider turn-out was minimal. They never get to see true bike handling skills like you see in DS. On top of the crappy racing, you had crappy courses. The course builders did not have access to good equipment, time, or labor. The courses were never "burned in" and you had the wrong people building the course (i.e. Herbold in Colorado).
At least with a DS course you can built it quickly, and it's not all about a smooth, BMX style, course. It's about skills and strategy (on the entire run).
Splatakill rules! Been a few years since I been up there. Laslo's boys ain't skeered to build some sh!t to push you.
Funny looking at that pic! First thing I go to is all the rock in the dirt there.
Certainly a Mtb feel to anystyle course built on that Mountain.
Went there and stayed two weeks before Vermont one year and worked on the course. No use for a shovel, potato rake was the preferred tool.
Tweeked my knee on that big azz jump, raced on it hurt the rest of the season.
Funny looking at that pic! First thing I go to is all the rock in the dirt there.
Certainly a Mtb feel to anystyle course built on that Mountain.
Went there and stayed two weeks before Vermont one year and worked on the course. No use for a shovel, potato rake was the preferred tool.
Tweeked my knee on that big azz jump, raced on it hurt the rest of the season.
on guard!.........lol.......hows your daughter?
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy... I agree both are sick and it depends on what kind of rider you are or what you feel like riding. To all those that say 4X sucks, well you are one dimensional riders and in my opinion a bunch of (beeps). So what if you would rather drift corners all day and mow over horribly built obstacles then go to the track and do gates or work on getting some rythm, to each his own. If you dont think that spectators dont like watching people come out of the gate, drag race 4 wide, and create contact you are sadly mistaken. Try telling that to the 40,000 sum odd people that showed up to the worlds 4X in Scotland to watch us bang it out or the huge amount of people going nuts at the Chili Challenge 4X. Tracks in America are not up to par with standards, but with Angelfire and the new course in Sol Vista coming up we are not too far back from other countries. What, did you think that there are 15 sick tracks in every country in Europe...WRONG. Ive seen some of the tracks in the Czech and Australia and am damn glad I get to race AF every year. I love both events, so why choose, you go to yours Ill go to mine and you'll never get pulled by someone faster than you.
BTW I dont know what you mean by 4X hasnt hit the "MAINSTEAM" but I do know that slowing down to type makes you seem alot more intelligent.
oster_oops:
BTW I dont know what you mean by 4X hasnt hit the "MAINSTEAM" but I do know that slowing down to type makes you seem alot more intelligent.
oster_oops:Forget the words. That picture settles the debate.DS rules....
Looks like an awesome track Metal Dude
The real reason DS rules!!! "Mano e Mano" Duel to the death.
Not many like being put on stage and measuring the difference man to man.
In 4x you can cruiz down in last and be like yeah I was hangin"
That's why I feel alot more ametuers like DH - Your "stage" is the rock garden or the drop where everyone is hangin to watch. You don't get to see
me suckin wind and punkin out in the pedalling sections but, man did I look good in that rock garden.
Dual Slalom is so much more fun...especially with courses like the Crankworx one.
Side note: I was watching some Boarder cross racing on TV and it was WAY better than watching 4X....don't know why?
Side note: I was watching some Boarder cross racing on TV and it was WAY better than watching 4X....don't know why?
Haha thats my flash!DS rules....
yeah, that was the raddest 4x course ever
I love both, but can race on the grass slalom and be super pumped on it, but a lame 4X is exactly that. For me, for 4X to be exciting, the course has to be good with lots of passing or big jumps. I could just ride the lower parts of the Angelfire course all day long. Snowmass tends to be good because of all of the passing. Snowmass slalom and Crankworx slalom is where its at for me though.
One thing that makes it hard to justify slalom is the fact that its not awesome training for a world cup level as they race 4X.
One thing that makes it hard to justify slalom is the fact that its not awesome training for a world cup level as they race 4X.
As others have said, it's harder to make a good 4X course than a decent DS course....and since most places don't put too much time into the course, I'm more in favor of DS. 4X can be fun to watch on a good course...whatever...I'm more interested in riding it. In any case, a good DS course can be just as good to watch and is usually more fun to ride and race on if the usual low amount of effort is put in. I don't care too much if it doesn't prepare people for world cups as well.
aha that old pic rules, I'm here...I just don't race much anymore, more jumping and all that fun stuff. I think I lost interest in racing mtbs because of what is being discussed. I too thought 4x had a bright future, but then the courses went back in time and jumps disappeared (by jumps I mean real jumps aka: over 20ft). O well, there will always be big dirtjumps
I don't disagree about Jeep KOM. I am usually busy on the weekends so I have only seen one (I think San Luis Obispo), and it looked kinda lame.
But the problem is the target audience. JKOM looks like Wide World of Sports targeting lazy dudes laying on couch on a Saturday afternoon ("Wow Katrina Miller is jumping over a shipping container").
You look at the X Games, and they are targeting (or least acting like they are targeting) an adrenline junkie crowd. And the X Games keep pushing the envelope.
Not that I like this event, the natural evolution is the Big Air ramp. While I think it is kinda of boring because guys are praying to hold onto their skateboards rather than hitting massive tricks, at least the X Games are trying something radical.
If we begged ESPN, maybe we could get a big 4x event at the next X Games: Something which only mountain bikes, not skateboards, not motorcycles, not even BMX bikes could do. A course with big air and classic DS elements.
The last thing the mtb industry needs is the x-games. It'll mean a little bit of extra cash from outside industry sponsors for a couple of years, and then when x-games exposure is gone, we'll have a bunch of riders and race-team budgets that are dry-humped as they will have "grown" to rely on the money.
Let's just accept the fact that bike racing is just too real, and too good to be marketable to nitwit teenagers. The only TV coverage anyone should really be worrying about, IMO is for the WorldCup. better distribution of worldcup coverage will mean a real, and more sustainable increases in wages.
Let's not re-invent the sport so it can be used to enlist Marines and sell Slim-Jims.
I have to admit that personally, I'm a 4x person, as my gate and first straight are a lot better than my handling skills, and the potential for contact and passing makes the racing a lot more fun to me. I like getting t-boned or cutting people off...
Let's just accept the fact that bike racing is just too real, and too good to be marketable to nitwit teenagers. The only TV coverage anyone should really be worrying about, IMO is for the WorldCup. better distribution of worldcup coverage will mean a real, and more sustainable increases in wages.
Let's not re-invent the sport so it can be used to enlist Marines and sell Slim-Jims.
I have to admit that personally, I'm a 4x person, as my gate and first straight are a lot better than my handling skills, and the potential for contact and passing makes the racing a lot more fun to me. I like getting t-boned or cutting people off...
In regards to the Xgames stuff, here is something to chew on, Chris from espn (marketing bigwig) told me the tv ratings and 'buzz' for bmx dirtjumping and bmx supercross events at xgames were as bad as street luge...meaning, it was not popular with the masses.
How did Slalom ever even become a mtb event to begin with...?...
Was it to give the crowds something to watch in the early days or was it brought about to draw crowds....?........or did it just appear as an event because different promotors were copy-catting each other.....?...
Was it to give the crowds something to watch in the early days or was it brought about to draw crowds....?........or did it just appear as an event because different promotors were copy-catting each other.....?...
Slalom was "invented" at Mammoth as part of the stage race back in the mid-80's. It's a great event, but like other people have echoed, I'd like to see strong Slalom and 4x events simultaneously...
Come on, Biker Sherlock (sp?) rules.
It just seemed that everyone of the Street Luge guys was a complete tool on TV.
I thought the BMX Supercross was cool but I am a biker. That said, there is no way I would ride that course on a bicycle. MX bike, maybe.
but, but, but....growing the sport! exactly what you said, we don't need big media to think we're cool......we're cool regardless of tv coverage, and frankly, I'd rather keep it that way, we don't need even more asshats getting into the sport.....
Of course you dont, you will probably never attend a world cup for a race, but for the riders that "outgrow" the fierce competition
(sarcasm) it is a little tough to train for a world cup 4X by clunking down a half ass built ds course on the east coast. That prepares you for 4X as much as taking a dump.
I think the whole "x-games" idea was brought up because several people made the point that dirt cost money.
And alot of dirt is needed to build a good 4x course. I agree that World Cups being televised would be a lot more legit
representation of "what we do" but, If television coverage could help grow the sport to be big enough to warrant "Real" courses, why not?
OLN was doing a good job of covering Nat.s before - presumably our governing body ran them off!
If 4x was big enough to stand on it's own we wouldn't have 98.5% of the people responding to this thread saying DS is better cause MTX courses suck.
I don't give a royal rats azz if mainstream America is into DS or 4x, that doesn't have to happen to make it cool to me.
For Godsake look what is Kool to Mainstream America in Sports -
Wrestling and NASCRAP?
I have always thought things were cool partly because they weren't liked by every other brainless clone.
But, with all the crap on TV I don't see what the hell it would hurt to show Me and the boys rockin' out what we do best!
It would also be nice to grow the sport large enough to employ more than a handful of racers.
Don't see that taking any cool points away whatsoever!
Cause you sound alot cooler telling someone that you are a professional Mountain Bike Racer when you earn money for it!
And alot of dirt is needed to build a good 4x course. I agree that World Cups being televised would be a lot more legit
representation of "what we do" but, If television coverage could help grow the sport to be big enough to warrant "Real" courses, why not?
OLN was doing a good job of covering Nat.s before - presumably our governing body ran them off!
If 4x was big enough to stand on it's own we wouldn't have 98.5% of the people responding to this thread saying DS is better cause MTX courses suck.
I don't give a royal rats azz if mainstream America is into DS or 4x, that doesn't have to happen to make it cool to me.
For Godsake look what is Kool to Mainstream America in Sports -
Wrestling and NASCRAP?
I have always thought things were cool partly because they weren't liked by every other brainless clone.
But, with all the crap on TV I don't see what the hell it would hurt to show Me and the boys rockin' out what we do best!
It would also be nice to grow the sport large enough to employ more than a handful of racers.
Don't see that taking any cool points away whatsoever!
Cause you sound alot cooler telling someone that you are a professional Mountain Bike Racer when you earn money for it!
"That prepares you for 4X as much as taking a dump."[/QUOTE]
Actually a good dump before the start of a 4x race makes you come out of the gate like you just robbed a bank.
You should see my dog take off after he drops one off. Now that's exelleration!! hahaha
Actually a good dump before the start of a 4x race makes you come out of the gate like you just robbed a bank.
You should see my dog take off after he drops one off. Now that's exelleration!! hahaha
The reason why OLN stopped show the nationals was because NORBA didn't want to buck up the $25k per hour for TV coverage anymore. Basically, Norba was able to sell the commercials but had to make the upfront investment and commit to the airtime.
Norba is a sanctioning body. If they had allowed other promoters in on the game for real, then possibly a good promoter could have sold the commercials to pay for it. It's still a boatload of money. If you can find the promoter bid kits from back then I think it mandated signing up for the TV package with Norba still having rights to too much.
The whole bid package was a complete turd anyway. I got shafted by Norba after hosting a successful state championship series for 4 straight years and an AMBC. They seem to have improved. However, until they get someone in charge that listens to the grass root racers and promoters, it will not be what it could be.
Yeah, I really didn't know for sure what happened to that deal, I just figured it was Norba wanting money from OLN or something...
I saw there was more road coverage that next season - don't know if the races were USAC?
I remember watching Bob Roll commenting briefly on OLN not covering mountain biking anymore
saying something like it was a side show and that road racing was the "Real Bike Racing" in the US
Cause I just can't wait to sit down and watch 3 hrs. of road racing...
Being a past mountain and road biker I thought he could have commented on it without dogging mountain biking as a sport...
I din't think he was that cool in the first place- so he probably likes Nascar, Wrestling and Hollywood blockbusters too....
Also noticed in the Tour de dope scandal the announcers refer to past World champion xc title holders as "Past Mountain bike riders"
Who have now become World Class Bike racers...
I saw there was more road coverage that next season - don't know if the races were USAC?
I remember watching Bob Roll commenting briefly on OLN not covering mountain biking anymore
saying something like it was a side show and that road racing was the "Real Bike Racing" in the US
Cause I just can't wait to sit down and watch 3 hrs. of road racing...
Being a past mountain and road biker I thought he could have commented on it without dogging mountain biking as a sport...
I din't think he was that cool in the first place- so he probably likes Nascar, Wrestling and Hollywood blockbusters too....
Also noticed in the Tour de dope scandal the announcers refer to past World champion xc title holders as "Past Mountain bike riders"
Who have now become World Class Bike racers...
Exactly. I don't plan on racing any world cups and neither do 95% of the people racing. I'd rather build something that those 95% could have more fun and value with than prepare that 5% for world cups.Of course you dont, you will probably never attend a world cup for a race, but for the riders that "outgrow" the fierce competition