[Sandwich]

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/2014-Sea-Otter-Classic-Pit-Bits-1st-Edition,7431/Prototype-2015-Foes-FFR-Downhill-Bike-Sea-Otter-Classic,74166/bturman,109

Is this a valid idea, or just more gobbledygook? I'd think a pound less weight between a spare shock and floater would be better than greater braking traction, but maybe that's the #nextbigthing. Better braking means later braking means going faster for longer...

 

[kidwoo]

bonus travel!!!

 

[jackalope]

I have no idea if the design actually accomplishes its stated goal, but seeing as pretty much all DH bikes have a goodly amount of sag (I used to run my old V10 at 40%), I would think they got the negative travel thing covered for the most part. As for a floater, I think pretty much everyone has figured out how to keep things reasonably active under braking via pivot placement and kinemagics. I mean sh!t, even Kona dropped the braker bar.

EDIT - kinda related comment from mtg regarding braking -

There are always pros and cons. First, leverage curve and anti squat are far more important to the overall ride than brake interaction. And, with where we have the pivot point, the brake interaction is pretty small. Nobody has ever ridden a GG/DH or Megatrail and said "the brake jack sucks". Moving the pivot down onto the chainstay also produces a situation where you have to balance brake interaction with anti-squat and wheel path, which could likely lead to compromises there.

But in other news, still pretty wild to see Foes not only still around, but still making bicycles.

 

[MrBaker87]

Is that in any way similar to Kona's "Magic Link"?

 

[jackalope]

I don't think so. From what I recall from the "Magic Link" (btw, that always reminded me of Trek's "magic stays" on the Liquid) it just changed the geometry whenever it was pointed down or up.

 

[Sandwich]

the magic link was different, almost like have an axle area instead of a path, I think. Never rode one...

this thing sounds like a very undersprung bonus shock that increases negative travel by a ton. It makes sense in a straight line where you never pick up your bike...but you'd never be able to hop anything again.

 

[jackalope]

Hell, even in a straight line it's nice to have the option to pop over stuff. That was one of the downsides of running mega-sag with my V10, it was like trying to get gelatin cranberry sauce to come out of the can.

 

[Sandwich]

Hell, even in a straight line it's nice to have the option to pop over stuff. That was one of the downsides of running mega-sag with my V10, it was like trying to get gelatin cranberry sauce to come out of the can.

but this has two shocks, potentially doubling the number of shims you can have.

 

[jackalope]

 

[Wetbed0]

I have a feeling, no science or experience to back this up, that the reason trophy trucks have so much sag, is because their center of mass is static. When you're strapped in, there is nothing you can do to weight either tire, or pick up the front or back. And the fact that you can keep the power on over really rough terrain. Anywhere your back wheel would normally leave the ground, you're not pedaling, and you probably don't plan on braking either. I don't see where the extra traction is coming from.

In other news, my sunday felt like a slug with too much sag for my liking, couldn't imagine riding this.

 

[yd35]

Floating brake? I think we know where Foes goes in the retro vs. modern debate.

 

[Samoto]

Add Monster T fork! it would look nice with brake metal hose

 

[jonKranked]

Floating brake? I think we know where Foes goes in the retro vs. modern debate.

this is foes we're talking about

 

[Samoto]

but this has two shocks, potentially doubling the number of shims you can have.

MOAR SHIMZ

 

[yd35]

this is foes we're talking about

Ha, I guess it's the equivalent of being surprised when Lindsay Lohan violates her parole.

 

[kidwoo]

I have a feeling, no science or experience to back this up, that the reason trophy trucks have so much sag, is because their center of mass is static. When you're strapped in, there is nothing you can do to weight either tire, or pick up the front or back. And the fact that you can keep the power on over really rough terrain. Anywhere your back wheel would normally leave the ground, you're not pedaling, and you probably don't plan on braking either. I don't see where the extra traction is coming from.

In other news, my sunday felt like a slug with too much sag for my liking, couldn't imagine riding this.

I know I muscle my Tacoma around on rocky trails just like I do my bike.

Just wait for the next big thing........wide diameter steering wheels. Heard it here first.


The idea behind that foes is fine as long as you never need to actually hop over something. I don't think I have that much travel in my legs. Would be a sweet bike to sit down on though while riding.

 

[jonKranked]

i'd still like to throw a leg over it for a run or two.

 

[yd35]

The idea behind that foes is fine as long as you never need to actually hop over something.

The negative travel could be quite useful in limited gravity situations, like the moon or Mars.

 

[Sandwich]

the fact that you can keep the power on over really rough terrain.

this is the big one, I think. On motos/trucks the longer your wheels are on the ground, the faster you go. I thought that was why the "scrub" was invented- you can still go super fast but your wheels are back on the ground sooner so you can get back to accelerating.

On a bike acceleration is so much more complicated...from chain torque to rider bobbing to undulating terrain. I think this would only hurt there, but it could potentially be useful for braking. If you could have constant traction braking through the roughest stuff, you could brake later. I just don't know if that's important enough to matter, as even if the tires are on the ground, brakes still have to work, tires still have to grip, etc...

 

[kidwoo]

You mean you don't pump transitions in your rock crawler?

noob

 

[norbar]

Is Foes an anagram to contrarian? Because he tries so damn hard to be different and while it may have worked in 2003 now if you have nothing to say isn't it better to just offer what people want? I'm pretty sure if it offered great geo, a decent pivot point and good leverage rate people would love a well made and us made lightweight dh frame.

Also is anyone surprised by that MRP fork?

 

[Sandwich]

You mean you don't pump transitions in your rock crawler?

noob

i keep my elbows out in the corners

 

[Bikael Molton]

Needs moar Curnuts

 

[Vrock]

I like it, the new Hydro looks too normal to be a Foes... and all the curnutts are gone in the small bikes, the man needed to do something crazy!!!

 

[ChrisRobin]

Well he could try something like 8" travel with maybe only 2"...that might be more reasonable.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

i dig it... i feel like the potential 12" is a little much though

 

[GekoES]

Actually, that doesn't count as travel per se, it is just a nearly dead shock that allows the wheel to follow better the terrain, it is like having 3 inches of play in the rear.

 

[Muddy]

Not practical from a bike-centered viewpoint -- just in DH oriented riding on it's own it will be binned with HammerSchmidt cranksets in almost a full year.

 

[HardtailHack]

I can see benefits but an air Curnutt could have been designed to have negative travel built in, having extra bits seems a bit crazy?
Maybe an April fool's day joke that everyone missed.

I'd love to have a go on it.

 

[joeg]

"Accessing the full 12-inches of travel is only possible when the bike is unweighted and the rear wheel can drop down"

pretty sure this is how you "access" the travel on any bike that sags.

The rest of this post had to be deleted, but since this is ridemonkey: imagine many ***** and you get the idea.

 

[Wetbed0]

 

[HardtailHack]

Would go well with?

 

[Wetbed0]

Not enough travel. Monster t with 888 spring

 

[maxyedor]

Really stupid way to describe what is essentially position sensitive damping and spring-rate, but rather than running a bypass tube and dual-rate coils like a TT shock, he's using a second damper with light valving and a "zero" rate. Should have gone back to the Curnutt and just built in a bypass zone, but then people would enter "Oh-noez, it's a Curnutt" mode.

I'm curious how it will work as you'd have essentially no ground pressure (What's a wheel, tire, cassette, and half the swing-arm weigh?), so I can't see it helping much, but would love to try it.

 

[Muddy]

Not without respect for Brent Foes and reverence toward his Companies bikes, but part of the riding experience is that hardtail flick which is characteristic. It doesn't have to be a DW*Link bike to possess it. Sure I'm not likely to be at InterBike but these still seems fleeting - I'm not seeing this as a full meal at this time.

 

[Jm_]

I like it, the new Hydro looks too normal to be a Foes... and all the curnutts are gone in the small bikes, the man needed to do something crazy!!!

So much truthiness.

 

[4130biker]

It seems like you'd need a second spring for it to be effective. I agree with some of the sentiment heere that straight line may not benefit much. But imagine off camber/rough sections, that lighter rate and extra travel could help the rear stay hooked up in a situation like that. Also corners with deep chatter leading into them it could keep from sliding as early?

Who knows, but Id like to try it!

 

[Wetbed0]

Anyone want to put a short spring in their bike and tell us how it feels?
I would, but I just sold my dh bike.

 

[Jm_]

Who knows, but Id like to try it!

I thought that about Curnut shocks.

 

[joeg]

It seems like you'd need a second spring for it to be effective. I agree with some of the sentiment heere that straight line may not benefit much. But imagine off camber/rough sections, that lighter rate and extra travel could help the rear stay hooked up in a situation like that. Also corners with deep chatter leading into them it could keep from sliding as early?

Who knows, but Id like to try it!

springs in series work like one spring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_springs