[bizutch]

Does age come into play with a bone like this?

I did mine 3 seasons ago and my hand specialist was top notch. He said..."2 options"
1. I can put it in a full arm cast for 4 weeks, then a short cast for 4-6 weeks and maybe it heals.
2. I can go inside the joint capsule and put a compacting screw in it and you're riding in 4 weeks and you'll have more stiffness.

I said "DAMN". He laughed and said..."I'll schedule the surgery" .He knew what I wanted to do. Everybody who's had Option 1 has had that damn bone crumble on them.

Mike Goldberg who used to work for Finish Line comes to mind.

He said the age thing had to do more with developing arthritic conditions in it easier.

 

[Zutroy]

DAMN!
I gave him a ring but no word back and sent some emails too...nothing...hope it wasnt the bone cully broke (nevicular) ended his career.

Did he go down racing? or at training?
details...fans love em

Yeah i was the nevicular, he went down in a training run full on body slam it sounds like. I guess the wrist was the least of there concerns cause of how hard he hit, they thought he had done some internal injuries, it wasen't till after the fact he noticed his wrist was jacked from what i was told.

As Fraser said it has no blood flow after you get past about 14 or so, it's heals very slowly in most people, some people it never heals right in, it's pretty much the worst done you can break in your wrist. Alot comes down to how good your doc is too, there are a couple different techniques to pin or screw it back together. I was told it was in two seaperate pieces so it was a bad break.

Stick you might try Big House, he can probably fill ya in.

 

[Cant Climb]

Does age come into play with a bone like this?

If you break it more than once than it is less likely to heal, also if you don't get proper treatment for it than it may never heal.......

Some people never heal completely when they break even if they do all the right treatment. Some are 100% in 9 months......

 

[Cant Climb]

Mike Goldberg who used to work for Finish Line comes to mind.

Goldie's body is full of pins......more power to him, i would have hung it up long ago......

 

[stiksandstones]

Yeah i was the nevicular, he went down in a training run full on body slam it sounds like. I guess the wrist was the least of there concerns cause of how hard he hit, they thought he had done some internal injuries, it wasen't till after the fact he noticed his wrist was jacked from what i was told.

As Fraser said it has no blood flow after you get past about 14 or so, it's heals very slowly in most people, some people it never heals right in, it's pretty much the worst done you can break in your wrist. Alot comes down to how good your doc is too, there are a couple different techniques to pin or screw it back together. I was told it was in two seaperate pieces so it was a bad break.

Stick you might try Big House, he can probably fill ya in.

Damn...pissin me off the MTB media, this is frickin huge news...you would atleast think MBA would have reported it since they are all butt buddies. Sucks to hear regardless-hope some americans can step it up to EC,LOPES, KING speed.
I am pretty sure Cullys broke in two, it was a nightmare for him to comeback, and never did.
Wishin the poor fella the best.
I wont bother with Rich, he is super salt at me??? Think because I was on the side of people laughing that his bro got DQ'd and I did not put a link to his site on mine he has not talked to me since...so I will stick to reading my news here. THanks Z

 

[Zutroy]

Damn...pissin me off the MTB media, this is frickin huge news...you would atleast think MBA would have reported it since they are all butt buddies. Sucks to hear regardless-hope some americans can step it up to EC,LOPES, KING speed.
I am pretty sure Cullys broke in two, it was a nightmare for him to comeback, and never did.
Wishin the poor fella the best.
I wont bother with Rich, he is super salt at me??? Think because I was on the side of people laughing that his bro got DQ'd and I did not put a link to his site on mine he has not talked to me since...so I will stick to reading my news here. THanks Z

I don't think it's really been put out that he did it yet.

 

[bizutch]

Hey Stik, just think...a few years ago the only way you'd know is if you read it in the back MTB pages of VeloNews 3 weeks later or in MountainBike 3 months from now.

 

[partsbara]

after a weekend like this, my body feels like it has 748 pins in it...

 

[Christiaan]

High five to you mate! You're a farking legend!
We'll definately pop by with a trunk full of bikes and Jupilers to go bigger than we did this weekend. Scary eh
D'you get outta yer straightjacket allright on sunday?

Still hella pissed that Nico Vinck didn't make it to top ten, he deserved it.
And even more pissed about the 4X finals. My mate Daniel Prijkel (only 17years on mind you) made it to the quarter finals in a heat with Procop, eliminating Atkinson. Then them wankers decide to cancel the damn thing.
On the other hand, Daniel's got so much talent, the world will notice soon enough

Actually, Daniel is only 16 years old, he will be 17 tomorrow

Hannah bent his frame in practise on thursday, I guess Intense were nice enough to lent him a M3 frame. They had all the logo's ducktaped up, hahaha.

The mechanism on the startgate died because of all the rain or something, they had 24 hours to fix it, but they couldn't(My guess, they only tried for like 10 minutes)

They wanted to continue the race on sunday after the DH finals by letting officals hold the riders by the seat, and some guy holding his arm up and the lowering it as the start! The men refused!

The riders said they took the same gate as at the first WC, and the gate had problems there too, stupid idiots!

there was a unofficial race, with Gracia, Strait, Rennie, Powell and a guy riding a specialized, can't remenber his name, which was won by a cheating Gracia because he pedalled in the no pedalling race, slaloming arround the specatators on the field next to the 4X track. Nice Lemans start too, bikes upside down, helmet and goggle in front of it.

The Track itself was big, it had a 11metre double followed by a 15metre double. Only Sacha Meierborg(?spelling) jumped it, but he broke his ankle on the landing, something about it already having a crack in it. They took 2 hours to fix his ankle in the hospital.
After that, nobody tried it.

 

[stiksandstones]

The Track itself was big, it had a 11metre double followed by a 15metre double. Only Sacha Meierborg(?spelling) jumped it, but he broke his ankle on the landing, something about it already having a crack in it. They took 2 hours to fix his ankle in the hospital.
After that, nobody tried it.

Yeah, Lopes told me the track was awesome-as was the Vigo spain WC track...coming off the Worlds course and the world cup finals, thats 4 in a row awesome tracks in europe! If they can purchase a new gate, WC would be golden.

 

[biker3]

Yeah, Lopes told me the track was awesome-as was the Vigo spain WC track...coming off the Worlds course and the world cup finals, thats 4 in a row awesome tracks in europe! If they can purchase a new gate, WC would be golden.

Well if Schaldming can come up with a good track, and considering Angel Fire's 4x is insane that will mean 6 in a row. I was there this weekend and no one will be dissapointed by any means. Think super steep, long, road gaps, huge berms and a few motocross jumps at the finish. Its going to be a good race.

 

[Transcend]

it wasen't till after the fact he noticed his wrist was jacked from what i was told.

Ya, I knew mine was hurt - but practiced saturday, and qualified and raced on Sunday (incuding yardsale) on it. I came home Monday and THEN went to the hospital. The doctor just looked at my xray, at me and then shook his head. It didn't REALLY start to hurt for 2 days.

 

[Zutroy]

Ya, I knew mine was hurt - but practiced saturday, and qualified and raced on Sunday (incuding yardsale) on it. I came home Monday and THEN went to the hospital. The doctor just looked at my xray, at me and then shook his head. It didn't REALLY start to hurt for 2 days.

I've had a few friends do that also, I walked around on a stress fractures Meta-Tarsel for a week once without it hurting much. Funny how that works sometimes.

Back to the WC anyone know anything about Hannah Crashing and losing his bike in the woods? They mentioned that on the MBA report of the race.

 

[bizutch]

OK....somebody PLEASE tell me why the hell the pros thumbed their nose at an awesome course??? AM I the only one who thinks they are a bunch of fags for not just racing it anyway?

Their sponsors spent ****loads of money to get them there, pay for their hotels, food, massages...whatever...and they don't bother to put their sponsors name on the course?

So what if it was a flag by hand? just race the damn thing...you telling me a bunch of pro teams let their hard earned money dikk around in the grass and not friggin compete in front of media, cameras, freecaster, spectators and the venue that was nice enough to let them ride there...let alone build them a massive course????

That is total bullcrap. If I were Cannondale, GT, SantaCruz, etc...I'd be getting a refund from my riders and telling them if they pulled a protest again, they could go dig ditches for a living instead of play around in the grass like 4 year olds on my payroll!

 

[Kevin]

OK....somebody PLEASE tell me why the hell the pros thumbed their nose at an awesome course??? AM I the only one who thinks they are a bunch of fags for not just racing it anyway?

Their sponsors spent ****loads of money to get them there, pay for their hotels, food, massages...whatever...and they don't bother to put their sponsors name on the course?

So what if it was a flag by hand? just race the damn thing...you telling me a bunch of pro teams let their hard earned money dikk around in the grass and not friggin compete in front of media, cameras, freecaster, spectators and the venue that was nice enough to let them ride there...let alone build them a massive course????

That is total bullcrap. If I were Cannondale, GT, SantaCruz, etc...I'd be getting a refund from my riders and telling them if they pulled a protest again, they could go dig ditches for a living instead of play around in the grass like 4 year olds on my payroll!

It would have been a totally unfair start as it was with the lady's.
Winning points is more important then getting some extra exposure on world cup level I guess.
The UCI just screwed up big time last weekend and it should never happen again. The had over 24hours to fix what seemed to be a small problem but I dont think they even tryd untill after the DH finals.
I think the guys were absolutely in their right to not race and I heard the ladys agreed not to race too but then raced anyways.
Not a very cool move certainly given the fact that Kintner ( I believe she came in 2nd in Vigo?) had allready left asuming there wasnt gonna be a race.
I think sponsors should complain with the UCI and not with the riders...

 

[Cant Climb]

OK....somebody PLEASE tell me why the hell the pros thumbed their nose at an awesome course??? AM I the only one who thinks they are a bunch of fags for not just racing it anyway?

Their sponsors spent ****loads of money to get them there, pay for their hotels, food, massages...whatever...and they don't bother to put their sponsors name on the course?

So what if it was a flag by hand? just race the damn thing...you telling me a bunch of pro teams let their hard earned money dikk around in the grass and not friggin compete in front of media, cameras, freecaster, spectators and the venue that was nice enough to let them ride there...let alone build them a massive course????

That is total bullcrap. If I were Cannondale, GT, SantaCruz, etc...I'd be getting a refund from my riders and telling them if they pulled a protest again, they could go dig ditches for a living instead of play around in the grass like 4 year olds on my payroll!

I agree with you.......

Maybe they could have raced but reached an agreement that it would not count as official UCI points because the start wasn't completely proper. Or maybe just raced without UCI agreement and did it outlaw style......

Alot of the pros show themselves again and again as Extremely high maintenence. It takes alot away from the sport IMO.

 

[blt2ride]

A few pics from Friday's practice i believe

http://www.bike-willingen.de/medien/519/galerie_index1.html


hmmm.....Mick broke or lost his Haro?

I heard he had such a violent crash in the tree section, he couldn't find his bike when he got up. I'm thinking someone may have given him their bike to finish his run.

That must have been a nasty crash; leave it to Mik to get up after such a crash to finish his run--that dude is tough as nails!

 

[blt2ride]

from canadiancyclist: http://www.canadiancyclist.com/dailynews/June/6.5.051.18PM30.shtml

women turning their backs on the spectators? Insane. Just insane. Turning your back on all of the people who came to see you? I have no respect for that kind of "professional"... more like professional whiners...

(this doesn't have much to do with the above, but just an example that fans really care about the racing... So if you're mad about a gate not working, take your anger to the officials, not to spectators)
I remember travelling from 24hours by train from denmark to the middle of nowhere Vars, France to see that world cup. The 4x (or dual at the time) course was a mud hole, but then again, the organizers couldn't stop the rain that just poured down.

When they finally canceled the event (for good reason - lightning was cracking just over out heads) we spectators were a bit upset. We stood in the rain for 3 or 4 hours to see our favorite riders.... I don't care if the track has a bad gate... Just yell "GO!" and that would be fine for me. we just wanted to see RACING!!

top level racing has seen "faulty starting gates" before... what did they do to remedy the problem?

I wouldn't go so far to call this the "pea brain" post of the day, I guess I'm just not a s#!t talker, and don't like to put people down. I'll put in my opinion, and not put people down because their opinion is different than mine.

I could see how people would find this type of behavior disrespectful, and I could see how their sponsors wouldn't be too happy with this type of behavior.

On the other hand, all of the pros made a collective decision not to race, because they didn't like the fact that the gate wasn't working. However, a few female racers decided to race, anyway; that's pretty low. Since I wasn't there, and don't know both sides of the story, I won't rush to judgement on the subject.

It is what it is, there's nothing that can be done about the rain, and I understand that the gate shorted out because of the rain. It's not as if the race officials inteneded to race without the use of the gate.

I remember the BMX Natioanal in Ontario, CA where the race was rained out, and the ABA decided to end the race after the first turn. While the pros weren't too happy with the decision, they sucked it up and raced in the rain.

For Stikman to call this fan a "pea brain" for voicing his opinion is kind of crappy. Stik face it, a lot of people feel that the pros were out of line and found this behavior disrespectful...

Go ahead, call this "pea brain" post of the day...

 

[Zutroy]

OK....somebody PLEASE tell me why the hell the pros thumbed their nose at an awesome course??? AM I the only one who thinks they are a bunch of fags for not just racing it anyway?

Their sponsors spent ****loads of money to get them there, pay for their hotels, food, massages...whatever...and they don't bother to put their sponsors name on the course?

So what if it was a flag by hand? just race the damn thing...you telling me a bunch of pro teams let their hard earned money dikk around in the grass and not friggin compete in front of media, cameras, freecaster, spectators and the venue that was nice enough to let them ride there...let alone build them a massive course????

That is total bullcrap. If I were Cannondale, GT, SantaCruz, etc...I'd be getting a refund from my riders and telling them if they pulled a protest again, they could go dig ditches for a living instead of play around in the grass like 4 year olds on my payroll!

I guess that's what you have to do when you don't have a union. It's not unique to mountain biking, the Road Pros have done it in the past also. They have even refused to race in the Tour before and just road the stage as slow as they could to protest.

Was it childish, maybe. But as it wsa pointed out all of the men did it. I'm sure the factory guys did it with there team Managers blessing.

As for the High Maintence comment I'm never seen that with any of the guys I've met, they have been just as down to earth or more done to earth and alot of the Am guys. Most of these guys aren't making alot of money, in fact alot of the habe other jobs they work to support themselves, so I think they have the right to complain when the UCI can't even keep a simple gate working, of constantly build a world class course for them. Although they seem to have gotten the course thing worked out so far.

 

[blt2ride]

I guess that's what you have to do when you don't have a union. It's not unique to mountain biking, the Road Pros have done it in the past also. They have even refused to race in the Tour before and just road the stage as slow as they could to protest.

Was it childish, maybe. But as it wsa pointed out all of the men did it. I'm sure the factory guys did it with there team Managers blessing.

As for the High Maintence comment I'm never seen that with any of the guys I've met, they have been just as down to earth or more done to earth and alot of the Am guys. Most of these guys aren't making alot of money, in fact alot of the habe other jobs they work to support themselves, so I think they have the right to complain when the UCI can't even keep a simple gate working, of constantly build a world class course for them. Although they seem to have gotten the course thing worked out so far.

I'm not really saying that the pros' decision was wrong. I just thought it was wrong for Stikman to call this dude a pea brain. I could see how the fans would be upset, since 4X is a bit better than DH in terms of spectator appeal. The pros were mad, and maybe some of them did not think of the fans' reactions. I, for one, would be disappointed if I drove out to a race to see some of my favirote riders, and they decided not to race...

 

[Kevin]

The UCI insisted on them to race without a gate. Heck they even said "If you dont wanna race wll let just someone ride down the track and he gets all the points.
They had long enough time to fix the damn gate in the first place so its just their own fault.
And about them racing by themselves outlaw steeloo, they did.....

Check these pics of the Notorious; World Cup No pedal, 4x, slalom thru the crowd race.

http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506215.jpg
http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506216.jpg
http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506218.jpg
http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506219.jpg
http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506220.jpg
http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506222.jpg
http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/506/pbpic506223.jpg

 

[Zutroy]

I heard he had such a violent crash in the tree section, he couldn't find his bike when he got up. I'm thinking someone may have given him their bike to finish his run.

That must have been a nasty crash; leave it to Mik to get up after such a crash to finish his run--that dude is tough as nails!

Intense loaned him the M3 they put duct tape over the Intense, full on name badge engineering.

 

[bizutch]

still say sponsors are pissed. No way you spend that kind of money to put somebody in that position and have them doodle in the grass b/c they're too "professional" to let a flagman start them. Bike companies, sponsors and so forth pay to get exposure through these guys at THE premiere events.

No fan would care how they started...only about the actual riding.

 

[Kevin]

I was there, I was glad they didnt start cause it wouldnt have been fair.
I only felt sorry for a friend of mine who qualified for the quarters riding his first world cup.
He's only 16years old and finished 2 seconds after Prokop and beat Bryn.
Even if he didnt make it to the semi's he deserved to be in the spotlight after coming that far.
But I dont blame the riders, I blame the UCI and their crappy starting gate.

 

[Zutroy]

What amazes me is there is no manual backup system.

 

[bizutch]

What amazes me is there is no manual backup system.

there is...a guy waves his hand or shouts go. That's how 90% of races are run outside the "uber-cool" World Cup. If you're Prokop, Lopes or Deldycke you're still gonna kick every other pros ass no matter what mechanism lets your turbo balls out the gate first.

I could understand if it was dual slalom due to the 100th's of a second differential...but in MTNX...the guy waves his hand or shouts "SWEET!" and everybody goes. first guy across the finish wins.

It's pretty damn easy to spot a barge. Nobody gave Palmer a second chance at the Xgames when his ski stuck in the carpet covering the gate. He got no chips, no salsa!

 

[partsbara]

listen to the dutchman... we were there....

plus - the course(s) weren t cr@p - but they were far from 'awesome'...

 

[Zutroy]

there is...a guy waves his hand or shouts go. That's how 90% of races are run outside the "uber-cool" World Cup. If you're Prokop, Lopes or Deldycke you're still gonna kick every other pros ass no matter what mechanism lets your turbo balls out the gate first.

I could understand if it was dual slalom due to the 100th's of a second differential...but in MTNX...the guy waves his hand or shouts "SWEET!" and everybody goes. first guy across the finish wins.

It's pretty damn easy to spot a barge. Nobody gave Palmer a second chance at the Xgames when his ski stuck in the carpet covering the gate. He got no chips, no salsa!

But it is a World Cup race, that's like saying hey lets use my watch to time the Indy 500 with.

If i remember right the reason the didn't give him another chance was cause he didn't want one, he had to get on to another event.

 

[Cant Climb]

I only felt sorry for a friend of mine who qualified for the quarters riding his first world cup.

How did he qualify for quarters if there was no gate.....?......it worked for awhile then stopped.......?

You dont feel sorry for yourself for going there and not getting to see them race.....?......i bet most poeple were upset.....the blame goes to both parties, the riders and the officials......

 

[stiksandstones]

For all you guys pissed the 'pros' did not race-I am pretty surprised. Do any of you know how many times this SAME GATE HAS BROKE??? Its been a faulty gate for a few years, they have had problems in the past, they have known about it for years, but refuse to purchase a new one-OR EVEN SPARE PARTS!!??

So with YOUR mentality, if you bought a bike that constantly broke, the company KNEW it was a faulty piece of machinery, etc...that you would keep riding the bike. Not the best comparison but hopefully you get my point.

The World Cup is on TV in Europe, it is the PREMIERE mountain bike event in the world and you are COOL with 4 'volunteers' holding bikes on a platform and another guy saying "GO"???? And have it show on TV??? Let alone giving the elite riders of the sport a sub-par event...one that all the riders in Spain said 'get the gate fixed for Germany or you are going to be screwed", They gave a warning.

As for the sponsors being pissed, I know as a former manager I would support the riders 100% in this. I spoke with the sports marketing guys at GT and they were not pissed at the riders, they were pissed that the World Cup does not have a proper gate!

3 Years ago I offered for GT to help pay for a new gate-UCI turned me down, I then offered to pitch in a G from my own pocket to help towards a new gate-still nothing.

It is such an EASY problem to fix. The ABA/NBL gates get about 15,000 gate drops a year with no problems, UCI one gets maybe a few hundred in a season and its always not working properly (NORBA's lame ass start style with the 7 seconds random drop is putting unneccesary pressure on their gate too, expect that one to blow soon).

This is not about "90% of the races" or "WAves his hand to start and everyone goes" its about fixing a known problem, it is not about the fans, its about changing the way some riders prepare in the offseason because they know there will be a BMX start at the races in a race season-so they prepare. You wanna have a guy yell out 'go' then tell the riders about it weeks in advance.

Signed,
Fan of the Pros

 

[dante]

there is...a guy waves his hand or shouts go. That's how 90% of races are run outside the "uber-cool" World Cup.

wow, never would have thought that Plattekill was in the uber-cool, high-tech age with their nifty Dual Slalom pull-gate. To have the World Cup championship (assuming that the points are close by the end of the season), and thousands of dollars decided by a race where some guy waves his hand and shouts "go" is unthinkable. the impromptu race through the bystanders will probably get in more magazines and videos and will end up getting their sponsors quite a bit more publicity than racing down a flawed track.

 

[c2001]

the indy starts by some dude waving a flag and saying "go"

 

[stiksandstones]

the indy starts by some dude waving a flag and saying "go"

Yeah, and look how un-cool indy is now...its the laughing stock of professional motorsports.

 

[dante]

the indy starts by some dude waving a flag and saying "go"

my guess is that *usually* the Indy lasts longer than 30 seconds...

 

[bizutch]

my guess is that *usually* the Indy lasts longer than 30 seconds...

my wife said that. what did she mean???

 

[kidwoo]

I still think it's kind of pathetic that there were thousands of local BMX races going on this past weekend with functioning gates and the UCI couldn't achieve the level of technical sophistication attained by a bunch of moms and dads.

 

[blt2ride]

For all you guys pissed the 'pros' did not race-I am pretty surprised. Do any of you know how many times this SAME GATE HAS BROKE??? Its been a faulty gate for a few years, they have had problems in the past, they have known about it for years, but refuse to purchase a new one-OR EVEN SPARE PARTS!!??

So with YOUR mentality, if you bought a bike that constantly broke, the company KNEW it was a faulty piece of machinery, etc...that you would keep riding the bike. Not the best comparison but hopefully you get my point.

The World Cup is on TV in Europe, it is the PREMIERE mountain bike event in the world and you are COOL with 4 'volunteers' holding bikes on a platform and another guy saying "GO"???? And have it show on TV??? Let alone giving the elite riders of the sport a sub-par event...one that all the riders in Spain said 'get the gate fixed for Germany or you are going to be screwed", They gave a warning.

As for the sponsors being pissed, I know as a former manager I would support the riders 100% in this. I spoke with the sports marketing guys at GT and they were not pissed at the riders, they were pissed that the World Cup does not have a proper gate!

3 Years ago I offered for GT to help pay for a new gate-UCI turned me down, I then offered to pitch in a G from my own pocket to help towards a new gate-still nothing.

It is such an EASY problem to fix. The ABA/NBL gates get about 15,000 gate drops a year with no problems, UCI one gets maybe a few hundred in a season and its always not working properly (NORBA's lame ass start style with the 7 seconds random drop is putting unneccesary pressure on their gate too, expect that one to blow soon).

This is not about "90% of the races" or "WAves his hand to start and everyone goes" its about fixing a known problem, it is not about the fans, its about changing the way some riders prepare in the offseason because they know there will be a BMX start at the races in a race season-so they prepare. You wanna have a guy yell out 'go' then tell the riders about it weeks in advance.

Signed,
Fan of the Pros

I think the point was still missed here. I'm not saying that I disagreed with the pros. Hell, I had it out with one of the NORBA officials at last year's Big Bear National. The dude shot of his mouth, and we almost went to blows. I know race officals can be real pricks--that wasn't the point.

The point is, you called this dude a pea brain, for giving his opinion. He's a fan, and he was upset. I would venture to say, that if you had posted this response, instead of calling him chilidish names, it wouldn't even be an issue.

The worst thing of all, some of the female racers broke the deal and raced, that is CRAP!

In addition, it's complete BS that the UCI won't get a new gate. I didn't know that things were that bad. That's just dangerous to have a gate that could malfunction. I could only imagine what would happen if the gate failed to drop with 4 elite pros on the line...that would result in carnage!

 

[stiksandstones]

Thanks Blt2Ride, I am glad you are here to police the forums, tell us how to behave and tell us who is cool and who is not. ("I met David K and he is a jerk" etc...)
I am glad someone took over mine and frasers' job. ;-)

 

[Zutroy]

the indy starts by some dude waving a flag and saying "go"

Actually it starts when the elctronic system kicks over to green, the flag guy is for show.

 

[bizutch]

Actually it starts when the elctronic system kicks over to green, the flag guy is for show.

that's what the corporate dopplegangers want you to think...