Good point! I know that Mammoth turned out to be one of the most expensive races I had done in a while, but worth every penny. I hung out with my friends, rode, raced, and drank some beer. What's money when you're doing what you love...I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.James | Go-Ride said:
Does anybody have an Idea what the Norba National Series looks like for 2006 ?
- Thread starter Msisle Dad
- Start date
Doug is a National hater...
Also, we should probably be more specific here. The only thing NORBA is really doing to bug most people is raise the cost of an annual license, oh and I guess not paying out DH or 4X racers for two years until Fox bailed them out this year. The Big Bear guys should be the ones who are getting hate-mailed. They are the guys who schedule racing and practices at the same time, let sportos on the lift during pro practice, charge $10,923,480,938 for a paper number plate and the ink for the seed list. NORBA contracted them out, and now they're getting screwed a bit also. Seems like they'd have a clause in the contract saying "if you suck, you're fired." Maybe next time . . .
I have been saying that for a few years now...the problems occuring recently are about 10% norba, 90% promoters (TBB And Blue Wolf)...great people, but I do not like their business model.James | Go-Ride said:
Love this thread.
Another thing NORBA doesn't have much control over is "firing" the current promoter. If they were to drop TBB & Blue Wolf, there's nobody out there beating down the door to promote their series.
If you fire them, the series will die period.
Perhaps the best case scenario is for someone like Ameriwest or American Ski Company to step up and put together a National Series of their own at their resorts, with all profits going to their resorts.
Then the burden of getting venues is no longer an issue. The burden of promotion of each individual event falls squarely on the shoulders of the individual resort (a VERY good thing). The prize money soars through the roof because big time companies like Ameriwest don't do piddly prize payout! The format would be VERY uniform and probably beyond anything we've seen at a Nat, even in their prime.
If you fire them, the series will die period.
Perhaps the best case scenario is for someone like Ameriwest or American Ski Company to step up and put together a National Series of their own at their resorts, with all profits going to their resorts.
Then the burden of getting venues is no longer an issue. The burden of promotion of each individual event falls squarely on the shoulders of the individual resort (a VERY good thing). The prize money soars through the roof because big time companies like Ameriwest don't do piddly prize payout! The format would be VERY uniform and probably beyond anything we've seen at a Nat, even in their prime.
Another bonus would be that Ameriwest or American Ski Company would foot the entire bill, cross promote at all their other venues and bring in corporate sponsors that TBB & Blue Wolf will never have access to.
One would think if you are doing something you are not good at...you would either rise up, or go do something else.
There should not be a need to fire someone/company/promoters they should just realize this is not their bag and do something else. But then again, I should have won the california lotto by now too and that has not happened.
There should not be a need to fire someone/company/promoters they should just realize this is not their bag and do something else. But then again, I should have won the california lotto by now too and that has not happened.
this should tell you that apparently TBB & Blue Wolf aren't losing money if they're not willing to move on. Even a tick falls off a dog once it's sucked out as much as it can.stiksandstones said:
Yes there is another promoter...
And they do a damn fine job with the Mountain States Cup Series...
Their name: Cycle Cyndicate
And they do a damn fine job with the Mountain States Cup Series...
Their name: Cycle Cyndicate
How much profit (stik guesstimated) are the promoters making for putting on the season series....?......stiksandstones said:
I think they should follow the model the road side has used and what's used in alot of other forms of racing, let indvidual promoters run races, and give them national points. They used it for years on the road side with the world cup till they got retarded with the pro tour.
let me jump on this derailed train of a thread. i think things are going to stay at this level until televison is brought back into the equation...as a sport we are grouped together with the same sports that are in x and gravity games..the same sport that has athletes in wendy's commercials...when will usacycling figure out that they need to reinvest in the sport and get time on the tube?
as much as i want a pro purse i would much rather have tv time...it give's the whole sport more value and we as riders and teams can go out and get more sponsorship...the series can get more sponsorship also and hopefullly they would put it back into the sport and have a much better quality event.
i don't understand why usacycling not tbb and blue wolf hasn't gone out and gotten a company that's sole business is to find money for events like our's?....even if they had to give 50% off the top it's still $.
tbb and blue wolf are op's guys...they will tell you that..they run events do timing, hang fence...all very important stuff....but until usacycling gives them more help it's an uphill battle for the sport to improve.
so does anyone have any info as to what the schedule is going to be?
as much as i want a pro purse i would much rather have tv time...it give's the whole sport more value and we as riders and teams can go out and get more sponsorship...the series can get more sponsorship also and hopefullly they would put it back into the sport and have a much better quality event.
i don't understand why usacycling not tbb and blue wolf hasn't gone out and gotten a company that's sole business is to find money for events like our's?....even if they had to give 50% off the top it's still $.
tbb and blue wolf are op's guys...they will tell you that..they run events do timing, hang fence...all very important stuff....but until usacycling gives them more help it's an uphill battle for the sport to improve.
so does anyone have any info as to what the schedule is going to be?
I would not even guess, because I have not a clue about that...I think they are doing this because they are afraid to try some other line of work.Cant Climb said:
Like EC said, they are OPs guys, not 'promoters' but they have taken over that role for over 3 years now...it is time to realize there are some things you are just not cut out for and is better served by someone else-even if there is no one else.
I dont think the thread is derailed, the question said "Does anybody have an Idea what the Norba National Series looks like for 2006 ?"
You are looking at it...a train wreck of a thread, just like the series.
P.S.
Love this thread
It was listed as tentative, but at the Team Managers meeting at Mt Snow NMBS they had a preliminary 2006 schedule. It had Sugar and Mt Snow in June, Colorado (TBA) - (probably Snowmass) and Mammoth Championships in July, Brian Head and the Finals at Deer Valley in August. They also had an XC/4x event in Sonoma in May on that schedule and "North America TBA" world cups in July and August (rumored to be Mont St Anne and Angel Fire).
It seems like last year, they announced the schedule in Nov and other than BigBear/Brian Head, they stuck with it.
It seems like last year, they announced the schedule in Nov and other than BigBear/Brian Head, they stuck with it.
TV would be a good step, the fact i saw a scrabble tourney on ESPN this weekend really makes ya wonder why they can't seem to get it on TV. The other thing i think they really need to do is get away from the sport being Extreme. They're really killed the marketing demagraphics with that.
you mean I'm not extreme any more??? But...but...I just bought some Right Guard!
LaytonDH said:
No Mt Snow ? I thats the first time i heard that. I would like the sonoma event and finals at Deer Valley rather than Mt Snow.
Thanks for the input
Zutroy said:
Sponsor Dollars. When Chevy was the Norba Series main sponsor they brought in (paid) OLN by buying the advertising for the show
Like most people, I hate the term "extreme." As a matter of fact, I thought it was lame 10 years ago, and have grown to hate it even more over the years.Zutroy said:
With that being said, I really don't think that the mainstream media considers mountain biking "extreme." Basically, all mountain bikers are put into the same class...mountain bikers; and the general public tends to think that we all wear spandex.
As much as most of us hate the term "extreme," I think it would really help us out. For all of you ex-skaters, think about where skating was 10 or 11 years ago--it was at an all time low. Look at it now, guys like Eric Kosten and Jaime Thomas are household names who are making a ton of money. The same can be said about BMX, look at Mirra, Nyquist, Lavin, etc. A decade ago, these guys didn't even have enough money to live on their own, and they lived on Cup 'O Noodles. We all know that their lifestyles have changed a bit...
My point, (I think I'm getting to one), if skateboarding, BMX, etc. can be brought back to life, there is hope for gravity racing...
blt2ride said:
Sorry, but, bad comparison...
BMX and Skate are sports/genres that revolve around one of the biggest demographics (and most lucrative) ever known to man-KIDS!!!
I am going out on a limb, but we can all say we road a skateboard as a kid, and rode a bmx bike. Few will ever ride a DH bike, it is not a kid friendly sport nor will it ever be. Mom and Pop are not going to shell out a couple grand for a mini DH bike, drive 6 hrs to the mountains and wave BYE as junior gets on a chairlift.
But they have no problem taking minishred to the vans skate park while mom goes shopping. KIDS, its the single most important element this sport is missing. There is a brighter light for DH racing, but it will never beam like a MirraBulb.
stiksandstones said:
I don't know man, parents throw down for mini motocross bikes and motocross bikes all the time. Not only that, but then they bring em to all the races. I think it just needs to be marketed a little better and kids will be all over it. Besides rich parents love to shop at the mountain towns, atleast in Colorado.
stiksandstones said:
ah youre seeing it coming eh?
two things:
1. I raced the whole NORBA series this year and it was the best experience of my life. I have never had that much fun and the courses were some of the best I have ever ridden. Especially Snowmass and Idaho, so that sorta bums me out.
2. This is the 5th page of this thread and nobody has posted a schedule
1. I raced the whole NORBA series this year and it was the best experience of my life. I have never had that much fun and the courses were some of the best I have ever ridden. Especially Snowmass and Idaho, so that sorta bums me out.
2. This is the 5th page of this thread and nobody has posted a schedule
It seems people are missing one big part of this. One thing that skateboarding, BMXing, and motocross all have in common is that the take place in a small area. Normal people can go to a STADIUM to watch the X-games or motocross races.
Compare that to downhill racing. It takes much more effort (helmetcams, tons of wirecams and people taping) to film/document/televise a DH race. That's why 4X and slopestyle are getting popular, because they're excellent spectator sports.
Compare that to downhill racing. It takes much more effort (helmetcams, tons of wirecams and people taping) to film/document/televise a DH race. That's why 4X and slopestyle are getting popular, because they're excellent spectator sports.
http://www.norbanationals.com/
Nothing for 2006 yet.
2005: FOX Racing Shox Prize Purse The top three PRO category men and three PRO category women finishers at each downhill race will receive:
$250 - 1st place
$150 - 2nd place
$100 - 3rd place
Nothing for 2006 yet.
2005: FOX Racing Shox Prize Purse The top three PRO category men and three PRO category women finishers at each downhill race will receive:
$250 - 1st place
$150 - 2nd place
$100 - 3rd place
Exactly, you need to aim it at the segments that can afford it. If you look at the people racing a good chunk of them are the post college crowd. If you are pigeon holed into a kid model your never going to pull in the companies that aim at the higher are brackets. If you look at a good chunk of the outside sponsors from the "hay days" they were targeting the kids.stiksandstones said:
SBDHrida said:
you have a point! kids going skiing cause mom and pop can cruise side by side on some cheap rental skis regardless of their own skill level...bikes aren't quite as accomadating.stiksandstones said:
I don't know that I could drop my daughter off at the chairlift while she went and played on boulders in the woods with no parental supervision.
Zutroy said:
Surf, Tide, Mean Green, Simple Green, Purple Power.
Also, anybody notice you don't see any shock oil company's logos plastered on any pros. Wouldn't it be fair to say the pros SUCK at bringing in outside sponsors....
I mean, MadCatz is sponsoring a World Cup DH team...that is amazing.
Also, anybody notice you don't see any shock oil company's logos plastered on any pros. Wouldn't it be fair to say the pros SUCK at bringing in outside sponsors....
I mean, MadCatz is sponsoring a World Cup DH team...that is amazing.
stiksandstones said:
That's a good point. But another thing related to what you said is that mountain biking and even downhill is a sport where you have to exert a lot of your OWN energy. Unless a sport is coached or kids are being pushed by their parents, it is pretty hard pressed to find many 10-12 year olds that participate on their own in activities that have them being active and burning their muscles for countless hours.
Plus kids are very concerned with "scenes" and "cliques" at the ages they are at and IMHO these X-Game sports are pretty easy as far as just being able to go somewhere to hangout and go ride in a bowl, a skatepark, hit some dirt jumps as opposed to riding a 40 lb bike for hours over 10+ miles. So in that respect, maybe some headway could be made in urban mountain biking, but at the stage it is at it'll be years untill it takes off since it and the riders are so far behind BMX
I don't know if it was you, but someone made a good point about linking BMX racing up with mountain biking in a joint effort because they do really go hand in hand. I think that is a good idea and probably one of the few realistic ways to involve kids in mountain biking.
the reason i won't go to national series races next seasion (aside from mammoth) is that the gravity races are not RESPECTED. it's not complaining, it's deciding that gravity racers and their events at nationals are not given equal consideration when compared to cross country.
examples:
dual slalom tracks at east coast races were a joke. they were labeled "old school"...one old school track is fine, but BOTH east coast races had about 15 minutes of digging time put into the dual slalom tracks. that says norba or tbb or whoever doesn't care about the racing.
announcing during pro downhill or mtx races was interrupted more than once by either the shimano kids race or some other miniscule event. on occasions they've barely announced the top 5 men coming through the line. compare that to xc and short track...when the racers line up, there's music, they announce almost EVERY pro athlete and their sponsors and they follow the racing religiously with their announcing. not a single announcement gets in the way of XC racing.
those 2 things alone prove that norba or tbb does not CARE about gravity racing, therefore they won't get my time and money. people who do care like US Open and World Cups and Mtn States Cup will get my time and money.
practice times and conflicts between gravity events is another reason, but that's been covered...
it's not complaining, it's realizing you're getting trampled over and it's time to take a stand. TV and media coverage has nothing to do with it.
examples:
dual slalom tracks at east coast races were a joke. they were labeled "old school"...one old school track is fine, but BOTH east coast races had about 15 minutes of digging time put into the dual slalom tracks. that says norba or tbb or whoever doesn't care about the racing.
announcing during pro downhill or mtx races was interrupted more than once by either the shimano kids race or some other miniscule event. on occasions they've barely announced the top 5 men coming through the line. compare that to xc and short track...when the racers line up, there's music, they announce almost EVERY pro athlete and their sponsors and they follow the racing religiously with their announcing. not a single announcement gets in the way of XC racing.
those 2 things alone prove that norba or tbb does not CARE about gravity racing, therefore they won't get my time and money. people who do care like US Open and World Cups and Mtn States Cup will get my time and money.
practice times and conflicts between gravity events is another reason, but that's been covered...
it's not complaining, it's realizing you're getting trampled over and it's time to take a stand. TV and media coverage has nothing to do with it.
Don't forget the coverage on USA Cycling's website. After every National there is a full page of coverage for Short Track and XC, and then at the end they put in: "Oh, by the way, there was also a downhill race this weekend and so and so won it." That's it. :nuts:©2001 said:
bizutch said:
Pros go to the obvious for sponsorship..
The cleaning chemical co's make sense. I could imagine a promo showing footage from the 04 snowshoe ncs dh cutting to June Cleaver cleaning the Beaver's jersey after practice.
From a Dad prospective;
We didn't have suspension growing up. Only became popular the last 20 years & at 1st, front suspension was really expensive, full suspension wasn't even around. When my oldest went out and bought a full suspension bike, (1yr no interest with a promise of paying it off himself), I was flabergasted that someone would pay $1500 for a bike. His younger brother (12 yr old) wanted one too. No way was I going to shell out that much dough on a kid that would grow out of the bike in 2 yrs, let alone finding a full suspension bike that small that wasn't custom built. Well #2 son beat the crap out of his Rockhopper, busting spokes from all the jumping, riding around with the older kids up at Mammoth, whipping their a$$ on the trails.
Well, #2 got his bike for Xmas, Kona Stinky Deeluxe, previous yrs model for 2 grand, size M because they didn't have any S. At the local jumps, guys were saying "that bike's too big for him, but man, can he ride it." He started the local winter races along with some other locals, did a norba, then the championships in Mammoth. As a dad, I found the bike crowd to be a good group of people.
Season #2 is under our belt, some of the locals that were riding the 1st season didn't continue the next, maybe because unless you were one of the people always getting on the podium, you didn't see the point. Sold a motorcycle (YZ85) & bought an M3 at the beginning of season #2. (And I thought $1500 was a lot for a bike). Son took 2nd in JrX 16 & under, at age 15.
Starting to see more and more kids with full suspension, mostly Kona's riding around locally. I think as the price starts to come down a bit, the bikes will become more popular. The trouble will be making racing more accessible, due to liability. It's never going to become little league or soccer, but there are plenty of parents willing to get their kids in gymnastics or other expensive sports that require travel to the events.
We didn't have suspension growing up. Only became popular the last 20 years & at 1st, front suspension was really expensive, full suspension wasn't even around. When my oldest went out and bought a full suspension bike, (1yr no interest with a promise of paying it off himself), I was flabergasted that someone would pay $1500 for a bike. His younger brother (12 yr old) wanted one too. No way was I going to shell out that much dough on a kid that would grow out of the bike in 2 yrs, let alone finding a full suspension bike that small that wasn't custom built. Well #2 son beat the crap out of his Rockhopper, busting spokes from all the jumping, riding around with the older kids up at Mammoth, whipping their a$$ on the trails.
Well, #2 got his bike for Xmas, Kona Stinky Deeluxe, previous yrs model for 2 grand, size M because they didn't have any S. At the local jumps, guys were saying "that bike's too big for him, but man, can he ride it." He started the local winter races along with some other locals, did a norba, then the championships in Mammoth. As a dad, I found the bike crowd to be a good group of people.
Season #2 is under our belt, some of the locals that were riding the 1st season didn't continue the next, maybe because unless you were one of the people always getting on the podium, you didn't see the point. Sold a motorcycle (YZ85) & bought an M3 at the beginning of season #2. (And I thought $1500 was a lot for a bike). Son took 2nd in JrX 16 & under, at age 15.
Starting to see more and more kids with full suspension, mostly Kona's riding around locally. I think as the price starts to come down a bit, the bikes will become more popular. The trouble will be making racing more accessible, due to liability. It's never going to become little league or soccer, but there are plenty of parents willing to get their kids in gymnastics or other expensive sports that require travel to the events.
©2001 said:
You wont go to the races because the gravity races are not respected? That's confusing.
I completely agree with you on the Old School DS BS.. Snowshoe was good and fun, but it would have been disapointing if they didnt have mtx... Mt Snow was a joke. That to me was disrespectful. I'm not sure what the heck they were thinking... MT Snow built the course not norba/tbb
tbb needs some serious help in the customer service area too. they seemed to be ready for battle anytime anybody had a question for them.
this year they had timing issues, gate procedure issues, but in other areas things ran smoothly.