[sam_little]

Just got some bids back for a basement remodel. I spent a lot of time researching the "right" contractors on Angie's List and through a couple of recommendations (short on resources there). On Angie's List, reviewers can include a price paid for the work and before and after pictures. Based on these reviews I was able to determine an expected cost for a similar level of effort, similar level of quality. Based on what I've ::heard::, prices for construction materials are way down right now. The bids I got are about $10K more (25%) than I was anticipating with the above web research.

1. I don't think I'm seeing the current materials costs savings passed-through.
--Wondering if there are web tools to evaluate current materials cost based on a location (zip, etc.) so that I can confirm my suspicion before I call BS on materials costs.

2. I think I'm seeing a premium tacked on for their reputation. Fair enough.
--How do I go about finding a contractor that is "hungry" for work, perhaps new to area and looking to build reputation but solid elsewhere, or perhaps a talented young crew (L&B) without the overhead. Anyone know folks like this in Portland? I'm the first of my friends to be taking on something like this, so I don't have a good network for recommendations.

I'm sure there is a better forum, but this is the only one I belong to...

Ideas?

edit: I don't want cheap-o, and I know this stuff costs real money for real talent. Bad work can haunt for years and cost almost as much to fix. I am not looking to find some schmo off CL. Repeat, I recognize the value and talent of professional contractors.

 

[psychodad]

Just a slight rule of thumb, if they can be there tomorrow with a crew, they aren't any good. If they can be there in 3 to 4 weeks, then they are backed up and are probably good.
The good contractors are out there, they aren't easy to find, because they usually don't have to advertise.
Not knowing anyone that has used a contractor before is risky. The people who were laid off last week and are now contractors this week really give this line of business a black eye and they are everywhere.
I install kitchens for a living and I really take pride in my work. I have seen some absolute butcher jobs by other so called "kitchen installation professionals" contracted thru other kitchen retailers. Cabinets mounted upside down, upside down crown molding. It is scary who you hire sometimes. Most people just don't know.

Get a thorough written contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't pay them more than 50% up front!!
Don't pay them cash.
Don't make the final payment till everything is done!!!!!!!!!!!! and I mean everything.
Don't be afraid to be a prick if you feel you are getting screwed.

Good Luck.

 

[dan-o]

My $0.02 as a contractor:
1. Angies List, and their recent email about now being a great time to expect 30-40% off contracting work can go F themselves. They are nothing more than a marketing organization looking to build wealth through the fear of homeowners.

2. No two jobs are alike unless it's tract home, new construction. Web research can get you a ballpark but I've had identical neighbors houses have the 'same' job vary by 75% due to any variety of factors.

3. Any contractor wanting to work right now isn't gouging as competition is fierce. Make sure everyone you speak with are properly licensed and insured to start. Then MAKE SURE you're presenting your expectations identically to each contractor so the quotes are for the same work. Finally, call references (I supply 10+ pages and an insurance certificate at each appointment).

4. Don't be an a$$hole about getting a price breakdown. I bid by the job with a detailed written scope of labor to be performed and materials to be used. How I get to that number while meeting our contracted agreement is none of your business. I don't break down my quotes for my best customers let alone some prospect.

5. I suggest being open about your budget for the job. Most people, and you admit this is true of yourself, don't have any clue on what professional work costs. Open communication helps to set realistic expectations and provides the contractor the chance to provide the best solution.

6. My materials costs went up 5 times last season. Lower building volume means manufacturers need to cover their overhead with less sales. Doesn't sound like a recipe for price reduction to me.

7. Don't buy on price alone.

Psychodads final suggestions are all pretty sound.

 

[gonefirefightin]

If a "remodel" is bid, it usually entails the sight unseen factor. almost every contractor (including self) will add in a little on the bid to protect themselves from the things that could hurt the outcome.

example, say you get a bid for 10g to do your basement, but after ripping out the sheet rock and flooring you realize that the subfloor is rotten and all of the wiring is not up to code, (common problems) the contractor then has the ability to figure in new materials and labor that he may or may not soak up depending on the contractor.

like I said before, this is only an example.

another thing you can do is ask the contractor if you can see some of his work and ask for references. decent contractors will usually have a hefty amount of photos and references. if not the tend to leave thier priors in less than happy shape.

I think everyone whom has replied to your post has some very good points, with all of these suggestions I think you can find some good help and get some good results.

in the long run, be sceptical but dont show it. no contractor likes working for a high drama homeowner.

 

[fortenndu]

Just a slight rule of thumb, if they can be there tomorrow with a crew, they aren't any good. If they can be there in 3 to 4 weeks, then they are backed up and are probably good.
The good contractors are out there, they aren't easy to find, because they usually don't have to advertise.
Not knowing anyone that has used a contractor before is risky. The people who were laid off last week and are now contractors this week really give this line of business a black eye and they are everywhere.
I install kitchens for a living and I really take pride in my work. I have seen some absolute butcher jobs by other so called "kitchen installation professionals" contracted thru other kitchen retailers. Cabinets mounted upside down, upside down crown molding. It is scary who you hire sometimes. Most people just don't know.

Get a thorough written contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't pay them more than 50% up front!!
Don't pay them cash.
Don't make the final payment till everything is done!!!!!!!!!!!! and I mean everything.
Don't be afraid to be a prick if you feel you are getting screwed.

Good Luck.

Not true in these times, a lot of really good contractors that my dad and I have worked with have little to no business. (this is in california and connecticut)

 

[sam_little]

Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I think Fortenndu's point about low work volume and high availability is kind of what I suspected, even for the real talent out there. That said, I've been in the consulting business, and contracting is contracting. So, if you have a name to protect, you don't go slumming.

Interesting point about materials costs. I was just thinking about raw inputs being cheaper, not necessarily considering the human (overhead) factor.

We've done a good job of demoing most everything and at least exposing the bulk of areas too difficult to fully demo in an attempt to limit contingency. Contingency just becomes profit if the problems aren't there.

We haven't asked for a price breakdown beyond different scopes of work. We were very honest up front about needing to be able to strip out certain aspects of the work to self-perform in the case that the overall bid was too high. We haven't asked for materials versus labor costs, but I know the schedule they've bid, and they were open with labor rates, so I can put 2 and 2 together to get an overall labor price and materials price, at least by rough proportion.

Regarding being open with our budget, we decided upfront to not disclose this information. As a consultant, when a client would come to me and say "can you do X for Y" I would either say "no" if it wasn't possible, and "yes" if it was. I always said "yes" regardless if the job would just hit my hurdle rate or would double it. I don't want to double one contractor's hurdle rate in an economy where some talent must be hurting for work.

 

[dan-o]

Sam, being open about budget doesn't need to occur when the guys stepping out of his truck. I usually address it directly after preparing and presenting a quote based on the customer outlined their project. That way we can try and find a solution that fits the budget while we're all together. You're not really showing your hand (the contractor or the client) at that point.

Just a point of reference re: 'hurting for work'.
Here in coastal MA, the quality guys are working. I was up last year and many of my friends had similar results, but we're all established residential contractors with good reputations and a focus on maintenance services. I'm currently up for the year and am seriously considering a 3rd crew to feed the demand my gut tells me is coming. My buddy just shuttered his granite countertop/cabinetry business because the equity-fueled luxury work has evaporated.

Personally I'm bidding simple jobs (low risk lay-ups) really tight right now, like 3 years ago pricing, but there's only so low you can go as its a labor intensive, tight margin industry. Lots of guys are dropping out of the game right now looking for a steady paycheck. This decline of 'qualified' contractors takes up the slack in the labor market which, IMO, was at a major surplus last season but has now adjusted to the market (at least locally). My guess is '10-'11 will be back to the 'lucky you get a call back, everyone has too much work' days with the prices to match.

You can find hacks or laid off new construction guys all day long. My advice is to find a local supply house and ask about good contractors. Shop around for a few more bids and settle on the guy who meets your desires/budget the closest. I would gladly pay more for someone who doesn't need to be babysat and can knock out the work efficiently.

You ultimately have to remember it's YOUR project. As a contractor, I don't care that your siding is rotten to the studs, your skylights are leaking or your basement is unusable in its current condition. I am happy to help give you a quality solution but I certainly won't perform charity in the process. If a price is too good to be true in relation to other quotes you will get burned.

Good luck.