[Eurotrash]

saw these on http://www.enduroforkseals.com/
Are they worth the cash?
What are there main benfits?
has anyone tried them?
I thought that they were used in applications where the bearings spin really fast and there is a problem with heat. Not really something to worry about with cranks or even hubs .

 

[DIRTWRKS]

saw these on http://www.enduroforkseals.com/
Are they worth the cash?
What are there main benfits?
has anyone tried them?
I thought that they were used in applications where the bearings spin really fast and there is a problem with heat. Not really something to worry about with cranks or even hubs .

Yes, I have used them at suspension pivot points on a few DH bikes and for wheel hubs etc.

Main advantages are lighter weight and they also tend resist binding much better especially under heavy loads that are common at some suspension pivots, this is where conventional steels balls often develop flat spots etc. The ceramic balls are much harder and to not deform under such stresses.

The divadvatages are they are not available in all sizes and are much more expensive except for some of the smaller sizes that are frequently used in skate boards and roller blades.
Also many of them use flimsy plastic sheilds instead of rubber sheilds so that keeping mud and dirt out is more of an issue, luckily it's usually quite esay to replace the plastic sheilds with better rubber/metal ones.

Actually not sure why most bike manufactueres are still using radial ball bearings, spherical roller bearings would be much better for main suspension pivots and would probably last for the lifetime of the frame.

 

[Beast]

http://www.vxb.com/ good stuff!

 

[xy9ine]

cool. $55 a piece, though...

 

[ZHendo]

they are actually supposed to be great, but the price is over the top. the balls are really hard, so they last a whole lot longer than the standard cartridge bearings do. that said, they cost twice as much, so if they last twice as long as cartridge but cost twice as much, why not just buy cartridges twice and have that fresh bearings feeling twice instead of the ceramics just once?

 

[DHCorky]

A former co-worker of mine got a hold of a set of ceramic bearings for his road bike wheels. I know he tested them using standard bearings just rolling down a hill and seeing his top speed. Then he switched to the ceramic bearings and he had a very significant speed increase. This was a few years ago so I do not remember the exact speeds. It was definitely more than just a few miles per hour.

The problem with ceramic bearings is definitely compatibility and price.

 

[Bicyclist]

Bah, I can't believe more than a few miles per hour. I think wind resistance/tire pressure/etc. probably had a bigger effect on the speed than the bearings.

 

[karpi]

he said he tested them on the same hill, probably on the same day and conditions don't you think? anyways, does enduro make other bearings than the ones they have on their site? I want a pair or so for my Karpiel, and how good are the boxxer seals? I've heard the last alot longer but they have a bit too much friction and the fork doesn't feel as plush

 

[DHCorky]

Same conditions except the bearings. This was during his tri-geek days and everyone knows how they fuss about everything.

Once he wore that set out he never replaced them because it was so cost prohibited.

 

[MorewoodKid]

Ceramic bearings are so 2002! Definately do work great though, I wouldn't shell out the $$ for non racing purposes however. For us excess lovers, they make a nice addition to the $200 spent on Ti hardware/ bolts though... :biggrin:

 

[Cant Climb]

saw these on http://www.enduroforkseals.com/.

they got a great price on M3 bearing kits.....!......thanks....

 

[Eurotrash]

yeah, I've sold a few of those, they're a good company to deal with too

 

[beaverbiker]

why not just put one or two ceramic balls in a normal steel ball bearing. the ceramic balls will crush all contaminants in the race-to-ball interface, leaving a nice smooth rolling surface for the steel balls. mmmmmmmmm, cheaper.

 

[MorewoodKid]

why not just put one or two ceramic balls in a normal steel ball bearing. the ceramic balls will crush all contaminants in the race-to-ball interface, leaving a nice smooth rolling surface for the steel balls. mmmmmmmmm, cheaper.

Thats what a hybrid bearing is brother: [Si3N4] ceramic balls with bearing grade steel races.

There was some info on the web a few years ago with some figures compiled by CSC [they were one of the teams who pioneered the use of ceramic bearings in their team bicycles]. I will try and dig it up, but I seem to remember a figure of about 4% reduction in friction. Thats a fair amount!

 

[w00dy]

Bah, I can't believe more than a few miles per hour. I think wind resistance/tire pressure/etc. probably had a bigger effect on the speed than the bearings.

^ Bingo

If you want a good high load bearing, use a needle bearing. Brooklyns have them on all the linkage pivots. Much cheaper and more durable. That pic above is a full ceramic bearing. They have a lot of issues with the races being too brittle. Any bearing you buy for your bike will probably be a hybrid.

 

[MorewoodKid]

^ Bingo

...Any bearing you buy for your bike will probably be a hybrid.

Except for jocky wheels :biggrin: and chain device rollers :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[davep]

Everything that I have seen floating around the bike biz is a hybrid. Ceramic balls and steel races. In fact, that is what is in newer hadleys (had no idea until I replaced the front ones).
FSA is selling ceramic balls for either cup and cone application or for a removable retainer cartrage bearing. I would not think that a full ceramic would be the best choice for a high shock load application, but I could be wrong.

I can see where this could be an advantage on a road bike where other frictional forces are much lower. Guys run open berings with oil for lubrication to reduce friction, and they can, due to the nature of road racing. Mt bikes are subject to so much more mud and water and foreign contamination, that the components are much more rigerously sealed. Sealed bearings inside of a redundantly sealed hub on a 2.5 inch tire with 25psi... etc. The change in bearing friction has got to be soo small compared to the total friction on a mt bike, I am sure there are much less $$ ways to make a more significant difference. They are cool though.


Needle bearings are great for high load, low speed and low angular rotation like a frame pivot..the problem is that they do not constrain or support any axial load. You need to hava some kind of auxiliary bearing to deal with those loads.

 

[beaverbiker]

you didn't read what i wrote buddy. ONE or TWO ceramic balls so that would mean the rest would be steel balls. That is NOT the same as a hybrid. I guess it could be in a way, but not in the same context you e-engineers use it.

Thats what a hybrid bearing is brother: [Si3N4] ceramic balls with bearing grade steel races.

There was some info on the web a few years ago with some figures compiled by CSC [they were one of the teams who pioneered the use of ceramic bearings in their team bicycles]. I will try and dig it up, but I seem to remember a figure of about 4% reduction in friction. Thats a fair amount!

 

[MorewoodKid]

you didn't read what i wrote buddy. ONE or TWO ceramic balls so that would mean the rest would be steel balls. That is NOT the same as a hybrid. I guess it could be in a way, but not in the same context you e-engineers use it.

Got me. I must have missed that one... oster_oops:

Not sure how that would work out (a few ceramic balls mixed in with regular steel) could definately be interesting... I know one of the great things about the hybrid bearings is that they actually crush most/ any of the contaminants, or press them into the steel of the races (the steel is considderably softer than the Si balls). This is a GOOD thing! Sizing could prove pretty difficult with the Si/ Steel combo though?

 

[beaverbiker]

yea, exactly. I'm just not convinced that all the balls need to be ceramic for the "crushing" to occur. I think one or two would do nicely. the ceramic balls are probably the most expensive part. if you can limit the number of those, you can keep the cost down. ceramic bearings are best for super high temperature applications. the balls and races don't distort as much as steel does at the same temperature.

 

[zedro]

yea, exactly. I'm just not convinced that all the balls need to be ceramic for the "crushing" to occur. I think one or two would do nicely. the ceramic balls are probably the most expensive part. if you can limit the number of those, you can keep the cost down. ceramic bearings are best for super high temperature applications. the balls and races don't distort as much as steel does at the same temperature.

problem is the two materials arent nearly the same stiffness so more point loading will come from the ceramic balls into the relatively softer steel races. Besides what would the point be? the cost wouldnt be all that different for sensible engineering.

 

[D_D]

I heard somewhere that SKF have a patent on using a single ceramic ball to crush contamination. Can't find anything on google though.