Okay, so I'm looking at buying a roadie for between 1000-1500 (New or used), and from what I've seen, I can get typical Shimano Ultegra components for this range. My LBS is ready to build me a C'Dale R1000 with a full ultegra group and Ksyrium Elites for 1400 bucks (Good deal?). Anyways, in this price range, I'm seeing Ultegra, and I'm seeing some of the lower end Campy 9 speed stuff (Along with Daytona 10 speeds on some used). Which is better? I understand that Shimano is more compatible with tools and hubs and such, but what about the quality and performance? Is the lower-end Campy stuff on par with Ultegra? Let me know what you roadies think...
Campy v. Shimano...The Battle Begins.
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Campy is tough as hell. My Veloce group has been to hell and back several times, I rarely ever maintain it, and it keeps on doing the job.
Ultegra is a good group. If you were deciding between 105 or lower Shimano, I'd say get Campy. Since you are looking at Ultegra - I'd say ride them both and see which you like.
Ultegra is a good group. If you were deciding between 105 or lower Shimano, I'd say get Campy. Since you are looking at Ultegra - I'd say ride them both and see which you like.
Ridemonkey said:
what RM has said is good so i'm only going to try and add to this. the ulterga groupo is good stuff, but so is the daytona stuff. there are going to be a good bit of differences though.
1. the ultegra is going to be lighter, simply b/c it uses alot of bushings, where as the campy stuff tends to use cartidge bearings.
2. the daytona is rebuildable in a sense. you can buy alllllllll sorts of small parts of any and all of campy's stuff. so it is rebuildable, however here's the trick, you have to have a mechanic that is physically able to rebuild all the stuff or it might as well be blown. shimano isn't rebuildable......at all..well except the hubs....
3. campy has a different shifting mech system. uses a thumb lever on each shifter. this is cool b/c you can drop multiple gears at one time, not that this is really all that necessary, but it is there. shimano uses the STI system and has a index lever to shift as well as using the brake lever. like RM said, ride both and see what you like.
personally i like little things from both groups. i like how the campy levers feel when you are in the drops trying to squeeze the brake levers. in the drops the levers have a bit more of a "natural feel" to them than what the shimano's do. however when you are riding on the hood of the shifters in my opinion the shimano's feel better. to me the campy's feel a bit weird from this position trying to brake.
hope that helped out some, trying to be as unbiased as possible and give some pro's n con's of each. ride it and see what you think feels a bit better to you and what's going to fit your wallet better
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Ultegra is nice stuff, but if I have a choice, I'd go with Campy , I have Veloce and chorus parts, and the stuff is awesome.
2 points:
1) No cables in your face
2) More important, with Campy, you can shift thru multiple gears with the
one movement of the shifter. This is a big advantage and very nice feature
over Shiman IMO.
I would recommend testing similiar bikes with comparable offerings from both companies. Don't test a Dura-Ace and a Daytona in other words.
Dura Ace = Record
Ultegra = Chorus
105 = Veloce
? = Daytona
Ultegra is nice stuff, but if I have a choice, I'd go with Campy , I have Veloce and chorus parts, and the stuff is awesome.
2 points:
1) No cables in your face
2) More important, with Campy, you can shift thru multiple gears with the
one movement of the shifter. This is a big advantage and very nice feature
over Shiman IMO.
I would recommend testing similiar bikes with comparable offerings from both companies. Don't test a Dura-Ace and a Daytona in other words.
Dura Ace = Record
Ultegra = Chorus
105 = Veloce
? = Daytona
I don't know if the Dura-Ace=Record, Ultegra = Chorus works. Up here Record is ungodly expensive. I saw the rear derailleur at an on-line shop the other day for nearly $400C. Yikes. I assume Record is more than new Dura-Ace everywhere else?
Ergonomics are the factor you should choose to decide. Multi shift ability might be important to you, might not. There are some people who pull Shimano shifters apart according to some websites. I'm not one them. Well I took one apart once. After reassembly some springs were sticking out. Trash.
Its true by all accounts that Campy small parts are more available or that there are more small parts such as shifter parts etc,
Truth is both companies make great parts. You need to use them in an actual ride to decide which you prefer.
Ergonomics are the factor you should choose to decide. Multi shift ability might be important to you, might not. There are some people who pull Shimano shifters apart according to some websites. I'm not one them. Well I took one apart once. After reassembly some springs were sticking out. Trash.
Its true by all accounts that Campy small parts are more available or that there are more small parts such as shifter parts etc,
Truth is both companies make great parts. You need to use them in an actual ride to decide which you prefer.
Record is considered blingier than Dura-Ace (And hence more expensive)
From what I've heard, Chorus is more comprable to DA. Daytona is a campy line thats been rebadged, now called Centaur. It is a 10 speed...Is it worth it?
From what I've heard, Chorus is more comprable to DA. Daytona is a campy line thats been rebadged, now called Centaur. It is a 10 speed...Is it worth it?
We are talking about downshifting grasshopper.LordOpie said:
And I have to back up a point posted above - no exposed cables on the Campy shifters is real nice.
On the other hand, I find that with Campy shifters, downshifting from the drops is a VERY awkward maneuver.
Arm On Fire said:
I think that you're wrong in a lot of ways here. While I think Dura-Ace is a lot better than Record for many reasons, I also think there are some better things about Record also. Those are the only one's I'd put relatively even. Chorus is nicer than Ultegra, but the new Ultegra looks pretty cool. Plus Daytona comes below Chorus.
New ulteggyra? Are you saying I should wait till 05?
Hmmm just checked a preview, they're getting Hollowtech II cranks and 10 speeds. This will drive the price of an Ultegra-equipped bike up, no?
Sorry for the third post in a row but...
OOOH!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7298&item=3697043598&rd=1
OOOH!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7298&item=3697043598&rd=1
Record = on its own
Chorus = Duraace
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = 105
Mirage = Tiagra
Xenon = Sora
Chorus = Duraace
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = 105
Mirage = Tiagra
Xenon = Sora
The only thing I have to add , Is with Campy , your Brake lever does not move it is fixed, where Shimano , you brake lever is part of the shifter and hence it moves side to side. I like it that when I go to Brake ( espcially in a panic situation) that all the movement ofthe brake lever will be to stopping the bike , and not ( maybe) shifting.
the one thing I did have a problem with was on my one road bike ( which is campy ) you use your thumb to upshift , but one of my mt bike had shimano rapid fire and the thumb was used to downshift. and I had a little confussion there , so that Mt bike became like all my other and now have grip shift.
as far aduarbility goes I have a Road bike with Ultegra ( called 600 Ultegra then) that I have ridden hard since 88 and it still shifts flawlessly (down tube) and has never given me a problem. and I have currently be en using a veloce equipped bike for the last couple years and it too , just works! either way you go , you are getting good quality for what you pay for.
and By the way , That De Rosa looks sweet.
the one thing I did have a problem with was on my one road bike ( which is campy ) you use your thumb to upshift , but one of my mt bike had shimano rapid fire and the thumb was used to downshift. and I had a little confussion there , so that Mt bike became like all my other and now have grip shift.
as far aduarbility goes I have a Road bike with Ultegra ( called 600 Ultegra then) that I have ridden hard since 88 and it still shifts flawlessly (down tube) and has never given me a problem. and I have currently be en using a veloce equipped bike for the last couple years and it too , just works! either way you go , you are getting good quality for what you pay for.
and By the way , That De Rosa looks sweet.
scofflaw23 said:
Whoops, got caught in my own quoting.
There's no Daytona anymore, it's Centaur.
For a peek at 2005 Ultegra, ask your local Trek dealer for a look at the 2005 catalog.
As for Record v. Dura-Ace, the New Dura-Ace levers are so much more comfortable, even if the Record one's were better than the 9spd Dura-Ace version, the 10spd ones blow Campy away.
Also, if you read the fine print in the Campy Record shifter manual, it says the shifters warranty is void if raced or ridden in the rain. C'mon.
As for Record v. Dura-Ace, the New Dura-Ace levers are so much more comfortable, even if the Record one's were better than the 9spd Dura-Ace version, the 10spd ones blow Campy away.
Also, if you read the fine print in the Campy Record shifter manual, it says the shifters warranty is void if raced or ridden in the rain. C'mon.
That is correct! and do you know why they changed the Name ? Camy got sued by Nascar for using Daytona ! Claimed Daytona in the sporting worlks is a trademark of NAscar . Come on ! like anyone would confuse the Daytona 500 and Campy Daytona Parts. I don't think Most Redneck Nascar Fans can even Pronounce Campagnolo.scofflaw23 said:
At least you called it Centaur, Daytona hasn't been made in almost 2 years.math2014 said:
If I were going to make a list like this this is how it would be
Record = Dura-Ace 10spd
Chorus = Duraace 9spd
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = 105
One negative aspect to Campy's hidden cables is that you need to retape the bars when you change cable and housing. Shift cable and housing needs to be changed pretty often if you ride in lots of foul weather. Brake cable and housing seems to be more resistant to crud. And you can hook a thumb under Shimano cables for a slightly more secure grip. I know one fellow who crashed when he hit an unseen pothole and his hands came off his old pre sti Dura-ace aero brake levers.