[powderboy]

So I watched Bush's speech to the UN on cspan last night. I thought it was very powerful and convincing.

Here's my thoughts:

1. If Iraq continues to defy the UN sanctions and basically wipe their holes with the resolutions drafted by the UN world assembly, the UN will be nullified and lose its legitimacy. Once that happens, there will be more human rights violations and tyrannic leaders.


2. If the US goes into Iraq, I'm sure many other Islamic nations will come to Iraq's aid... we're surrounded. It will be an ambush in the desert. Or, in this case, on the streets of Baghdad.

What are your thoughts? I think this is the most delicate situation of our lifetimes because it may undermine the legitimacy of the UN, cause Iraq to unleash weapons of mass destruction and/or cause a nasty urban war on the streets of Baghdad.

Sadaam Hussein = :devil: in 's clothing

 

[powderboy]

Hmmm... I got bumped to the Political Debate forum. Does anyone even come here?

 

[Tweek]

On pt. 1, I agree. The same bloody thing happened to the League of Nations after WWI -- a barking dog with no teeth. Germany 'wiped their holes' too, and remember what that led to?

Pt. 2 -- We're getting flak from everywhere about attacking Iraq. You know when Nelson Mandela poo-poos the idea, you're not in good company. We risk becoming a rogue nation ourselves. As much as I'd like to see us rip Sadam a new one, I think our only choice is to make an ultimatum through the UN -- weapons inspectors on the UN's terms (not Iraq's), otherwise face the consequences. If they don't agree to that, then the US will have less opposition about using force.

 

[Heidi]

hehehe - you said Bush on Iraq.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by Heidi
hehehe - you said Bush on Iraq.

It's better than "Bush on Uranus"

 

[Merwin5_10]

Personally, I sometimes want to anihalate the entire mid-east and be done with it. Then I calm down and realize its no solution at all...

We can't move forward without the support of the UN. I feel it would be a dire mistake to do so. The UN is the closest thing to a check and balance system for governments across the globe currently. Since our goverment was founded, in part on this principle, what message would it send if we ignore it?

If Irag continues to ignore the sanctions issued by the UN, they will eventually seal their own fate. The US is a little more eager than most to tangle with Irag, for good reason. If and when the UN is tired of being ignored, the US will know it is justified in whatever actions we take, and those actions will recieve greater international support.

 

[MMike]

My wife came home from work laughing hysterically because she was working up mortgage documents for people named:

Diana Dickhoff

and

Morton Weiner and his wife...get this.... Pei Pei

She was in tears. She could stop laughing for like 20 mins. She'd been holding it in for a long time. My wife's retarded....

Originally posted by I Are Baboon


It's better than "Bush on Uranus"

 

[powderboy]

I just hope the UN stays together long enough to rally international support to squeeze Sadaam's regime by the balls!

We do need the support of the UN community... I hope it has the gumption to enforce its own laws.

The Middle East is one helluva scary place if you ask me. Those guys have been at each other's throats for thousands of years... they don't give up. It's not in their blood.

 

[MMike]

THANK YOU~!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!!

Originally posted by Merwin5_10

We can't move forward without the support of the UN. I feel it would be a dire mistake to do so. The UN is the closest thing to a check and balance system for governments across the globe currently. Since our goverment was founded, in part on this principle, what message would it send if we ignore it? .

 

[powderboy]

I guess people actually DO visit the Political Debate forums... bring it on!

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by MMike
THANK YOU~!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!!

Don't the previous UN resolutions support our actions? Hussien has been wiping his bum with the embargo and cease and dissist orders for 5 years.

 

[Toshi]

Maybe Bush is trying to become the kind of strong-arm ruler of the US that Heinlein predicted. I agree that this is one of the most sensitive issues, and that a wrong move (and I don't know what's the right one; maybe there isn't one at all) will cause great havoc.

 

[Mr. ShockWave]

shouldn't he be chasing Osama Bin Laden??

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by MMike
My wife's retarded....

That explains a lot about how you guys got together and found so much in common.


(Probably the most politically incorrect thing I've ever written here..)

Oops, almost forgot -

 

[MMike]

Unfortunately, no argument here....

Originally posted by fluff


That explains a lot about how you guys got together and found so much in common.


(Probably the most politically incorrect thing I've ever written here..)

Oops, almost forgot -

 

[Skookum]

This next war is not going to be as smooth as the last one, with talk of nukes, skeptisism from other nations. Perhaps waiting for the U.N. is the correct thing to do, but i'd hate to see a nuclear scud hit tel aviv in the meantime.

 

[dg806]

We don't need the UN or anyone else! Anyone else that is scared to help (Canada, Germany, France) we need to have a long talk with them or sever all ties with them!!! This guy means to harm many people! If it was not for the good ol USA, he would do it! What would the world do without us? Be in a lot worse shape for sure!

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by powderboy
So I watched Bush's speech to the UN on cspan last night. I thought it was very powerful and convincing.

Here's my thoughts:

1. If Iraq continues to defy the UN sanctions and basically wipe their holes with the resolutions drafted by the UN world assembly, the UN will be nullified and lose its legitimacy. Once that happens, there will be more human rights violations and tyrannic leaders.


2. If the US goes into Iraq, I'm sure many other Islamic nations will come to Iraq's aid... we're surrounded. It will be an ambush in the desert. Or, in this case, on the streets of Baghdad.

What are your thoughts? I think this is the most delicate situation of our lifetimes because it may undermine the legitimacy of the UN, cause Iraq to unleash weapons of mass destruction and/or cause a nasty urban war on the streets of Baghdad.

Sadaam Hussein = :devil: in 's clothing

1. I completely agree.

2. Being a member of the US armed forces, (a Marine) i dont think that we're going to ever be put into a position where we're completely surrounded in the middle of the desert. In fact, we dont operate in a way that would even place that many troops in harm's way. Places like Bahrain and Kuwait, have already agreed to let us base there. We would undoubtedly conduct long-range bombing missions from those countries as well as several small islands in the persian gulf, not to mention aircraft carriers, and long range missiles from nuclear submarines.
There will never be another Hue City, like in Vietnam where hundreds of servicemen are gunned down in the streets. We have some very smart weapons these days.
Also, Iraq would be silly to unleash any kind of weapon of mass destruction at any point now after having denied their existence to the UN. The entire world would, including Arab nations would turn even more against iraq. That would be suicide for the "walking dead: Hussein Regime.
I believe that with little military action, Saddams people will revolt against him and any major battles in the region would be suppressed in less than a year.
However, if we act on our own, without the UN, delicate relations between Russia and China could be hurt in the long run. I think that is a situation no one wants to deal with.
My feeling is that we must accept the lesser of two evils and invade iraq.

 

[jhusktrials]

I am just afraid that Bush will be forced to do nothing. And than some crazy arab will get a nuke into manhatten and voilla we're at war people.

This same thing happened with Osama Bin Laden. We connected him to the embassy bombing and the naval ship bombing. But Clinton was too much of a peace monger that he turned his head to what could happen. Than look what happened.

It is one thing to keep our guns holstered when it involves a leader who has yet to do anything wrong. But with Osama and Saddam, both have done things in the past that we should have reacted to. Fortunately a Bush was in office the first time Saddam tried his bullsh1t. And now he gets to deal with his son. If we can get the UN to back us soon than great. But this cannot drag on. We have to stop this lunatic BEFORE he does something that will force a unanimous reaction (i.e. mushroom cloud over NYC).

 

[myNAMEis]

W is an imbecile. All this from the man who said he has learned
more about political philosophy from Jesus of
Nazareth than from anyone else. Kill em' he says!

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by myNAMEis
W is an imbecile. All this from the man who said he has learned
more about political philosophy from Jesus of
Nazareth than from anyone else. Kill em' he says!

Dubya didn't exactly say "Kill the farking bastidges!" on TV. This is great but it doesn't offer any solutions.....what do you think he/we should do?

 

[cliffster5]

I worry tremendously about the Bush team's ability to engage in nation building in a post-Saddamn Iraq as evidenced by the amazingly poor job that this team has done in Afghanastan. What is the stated goal here? To put a democratic govt./society in place in Iraq? Can Bush be serious? These mid east people have absolutely no ability to do anything with such a beast. The mid-east by and large is a place of rampant tribalism driven by warlords and strong men. We have not learned the history of Lebanon and Iran in the 80's and now it looks like we are condemned to repeat it here with Iraq not even 25 years later. This time it won't be just 238 Marines getting hit unfortunately.

The other thing that bothers me about the unilaterial chest thumping that Bush is doing is the selectivity of it. If you were to substitute the country of Saudi Arabia into all of the anti-Iraq/Saddamn rhetoric, the statements would still all be true. The Saudis are ruled by a brutal regime that has no intention of sharing the spoils of their oil profits with their stone-age living poplulace. Dissent is not tolerated and talk of political freedom is akin to sedition. Is all that oil worth the image damage born of hypocracy in the eyes of the rest of the world? Is anyone in here reading op/ed pages from outside the US? Bush is detested, untrusted, and seen as a dangerous loose cannon who operates with arrogance and hubris. Right wing hawks (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and Cheny) have commandeered his presidency and Congress (and democrats) have been incredibly impotent in all this.

Finally, to echo the jaded sentiments of others out there, the timing of this entire affair reeks of politics, diversion (from the domestic economic meltdown) and opportunism (mid term elections as well as the 2004 presidential election).

Why Iraq... of all the things for the Bush presidency to focus on? I don't get this red herring. I agree with General Zinnini, address the Israeli/Palestinian debacle first followed by stamping out El Queda. Then go after Iraq. Better yet, take care of the first two and then build some sort of domestic economic trust into our system and let the UN and the world community get on Saddam.

 

[myNAMEis]

Originally posted by fourgivn1


Dubya didn't exactly say "Kill the farking bastidges!" on TV. This is great but it doesn't offer any solutions.....what do you think he/we should do?

Not in so many words, but lets try to read between the lines. What I said was my opinion or Georgey! Any arguments, I'm all ears. As for solutions, I didn't know we here at ridemonkey have any input into the issue. It is also obvious by the support from the UN, and most other countries I have heard about, that Georgey is not really concerned with what any of us think. He has stood pretty firm on the issue. We could possibly, just maybe, it would probly hurt some GREAT PATRIOTIC AMERICAN egos, but stop playing big brother to the world and rethink our FOREIGN POLICY.

Anyways, with great regards!

eat me!

 

[myNAMEis]

Holy MAMA!

Cliffster for president!

Finally someone with a mind of their own! There's hope yet.

But wait cliffster. These people hate us for what we got and want us dead.

They have weapons of mass destruction, and are surley going to use them on US.

Proof? Who needs proof, georgey said so.

wanted.

looking for strong willed individuals to pull peoples heads out of their arse's.

Have a swell day!

 

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by cliffster5
I worry tremendously about the Bush team's ability to engage in nation building in a post-Saddamn Iraq as evidenced by the amazingly poor job that this team has done in Afghanastan. What is the stated goal here? To put a democratic govt./society in place in Iraq? Can Bush be serious? These mid east people have absolutely no ability to do anything with such a beast. The mid-east by and large is a place of rampant tribalism driven by warlords and strong men. We have not learned the history of Lebanon and Iran in the 80's and now it looks like we are condemned to repeat it here with Iraq not even 25 years later. This time it won't be just 238 Marines getting hit unfortunately.

The other thing that bothers me about the unilaterial chest thumping that Bush is doing is the selectivity of it. If you were to substitute the country of Saudi Arabia into all of the anti-Iraq/Saddamn rhetoric, the statements would still all be true. The Saudis are ruled by a brutal regime that has no intention of sharing the spoils of their oil profits with their stone-age living poplulace. Dissent is not tolerated and talk of political freedom is akin to sedition. Is all that oil worth the image damage born of hypocracy in the eyes of the rest of the world? Is anyone in here reading op/ed pages from outside the US? Bush is detested, untrusted, and seen as a dangerous loose cannon who operates with arrogance and hubris. Right wing hawks (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and Cheny) have commandeered his presidency and Congress (and democrats) have been incredibly impotent in all this.

Finally, to echo the jaded sentiments of others out there, the timing of this entire affair reeks of politics, diversion (from the domestic economic meltdown) and opportunism (mid term elections as well as the 2004 presidential election).

Why Iraq... of all the things for the Bush presidency to focus on? I don't get this red herring. I agree with General Zinnini, address the Israeli/Palestinian debacle first followed by stamping out El Queda. Then go after Iraq. Better yet, take care of the first two and then build some sort of domestic economic trust into our system and let the UN and the world community get on Saddam.

eh, I dunno.

Yes these men have political careers to look after etc... but all that aside what should be done?

Saudi Arabia the bad guys? In a sense yes. But any more backward than any arab nation? Doubtful (and before you call this a racial slur refer to the quoted post and address the question of whether this kind of social situation is common place in arab nations). Developing nukes, chemical weapons, and biological weapons? Doubtful. Using chemical weapons on their own citizens? No.

The fact is the Iraqi regime should have been put down 11 years ago in the war. Sun Tzu wrote in "The Art of War" that if you do not crush your enemy completely that he will be back to haunt you. How ironic is it that well known strategists that lived hundreds of years ago turn out to be smarter than modern politicians. Bush SR farked up. Now we need to finish the job.

What Bush is doing now is not the popular route. I liked Clinton, and I'm a Democrat. But what Bush is saying now is the truth.

Enough is enough.

 

[myNAMEis]

Originally posted by Ridemonkey


Now we need to finish the job.

What Bush is doing now is not the popular route. I liked Clinton, and I'm a Democrat. But what Bush is saying now is the truth.

Enough is enough.

The truth? How do we know. You say this but nobody outside anyone who watches the news in the US is saying this. I would rather us stay away from them. We play the role of innocence. Leave them alone and they leave us alone. It has worked for the Swiss.

As for going to get them. It is funny how people want to spend "OUR" money to do this. If you want it done, you should have the right to go over there and fight. But I doubt you are willing to put your ass on the line. Put your resources towards this. I'd rather put my money towards the good in life.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by myNAMEis


The truth? How do we know. You say this but nobody outside anyone who watches the news in the US is saying this. I would rather us stay away from them. We play the role of innocence. Leave them alone and they leave us alone. It has worked for the Swiss.

As for going to get them. It is funny how people want to spend "OUR" money to do this. If you want it done, you should have the right to go over there and fight. But I doubt you are willing to put your ass on the line. Put your resources towards this. I'd rather put my money towards the good in life.

I am an active duty US Marine...and im willing to put my ass on the line so you can write crap just like this all day long.

Leave them alone and they'll leave us alone huh? What a great idea! You know, i hope you werent serious when you wrote that. We do alot of good that goes unnoticed, unlike the so damned uppity swiss. We provide alot of humanitarian aid to countries over there...and we should just quit to make Iraq happy? people should starve because some powermad dictator wants to hide nucs?
I really hope you were joking.

 

[Darryl]

Some of us read history books instead of coming up with controversial opinions based on media hype and then blaming it on the media hype.

The proof is in the history books bub, read em.

Do something for your country, get educated, then maybe criticize, constructively even. If you'd rather your money was used elsewhere, you could always move somewhere else, start your own government and then see what it's like to have the awesome responsiblity of countless people counting on you all the while fighting a vicious unrelenting media. And when you fail miserably and fall flat on your face guess who will be there to pick you up and defend you?

There are those of us who have given up our right (so to speak) to an opinion, to defend the right you have to one.

I have absolute confidence that we are right. And like Burly Surly when the call comes I'll gladly sling my pack and my rifle and trot off to war while you'll still be here biting the hand that feeds you.

And with regards.

Turn off the TV and read a history book.

 

[myNAMEis]

I salute you burl surl! what a hero.:

 

[myNAMEis]

Originally posted by Darryl

The proof is in the history books bub, read em.

"Bub huh! I've read and I've made up my mind."

Do something for your country, get educated, then maybe criticize, constructively even. If you'd rather your money was used elsewhere, you could always move somewhere else, start your own government and then see what it's like to have the awesome responsiblity of countless people counting on you all the while fighting a vicious unrelenting media. And when you fail miserably and fall flat on your face guess who will be there to pick you up and defend you?

"Is this where I am supposed to say the almighty America. When we had more rights in this country I would have had the choice how to spend my money. I shouldn't have to leave because some arogant individuals want to tell me how I should sped it. I do not count on my government for anything."

There are those of us who have given up our right (so to speak) to an opinion, to defend the right you have to one.

"Well thanks to them, but I would like to speak for myself."

I have absolute confidence that we are right. And like Burly Surly when the call comes I'll gladly sling my pack and my rifle and trot off to war while you'll still be here biting the hand that feeds you.

"Arrogance at it's best. Don't wait for the call. Get out there and do something. There are plenty of EVILDOERS to demolish. Not just in IRAQ. And again I feed myself. I do not rely on the Government for anything.

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by myNAMEis

Put your resources towards this. I'd rather put my money towards the good in life.

And terrorists would rather put their money towards bombing your @$$. *L* Which is why I support going after them. (Although it's a TAD more complicated than that. )

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by myNAMEis
I salute you burl surl! what a hero.:

This morning i woke up at 4:30 and went on a 5-mile run because my superiors said i had to. Then after rolling around in the sand for a while, i come back here and read this. Now ill be going to close combat training to get my ass beat all day. So that someday, if trouble arises, i can go and help take care of the problem.
Is it good to know that through your sarcastic criticism makes no real difference to me? There are things and people in this country who want to remain safe.
You should move to another county.
I hate you.

 

[myNAMEis]

Originally posted by BurlySurly



This morning i woke up at 4:30 and went on a 5-mile run because my superiors said i had to. Then after rolling around in the sand for a while, i come back here and read this. Now ill be going to close combat training to get my ass beat all day. So that someday, if trouble arises, i can go and help take care of the problem.
Is it good to know that through your sarcastic criticism makes no real difference to me? There are things and people in this country who want to remain safe.
You should move to another county.
I hate you.

The great thing about this country is supposed to be that I can have my own opinions without being forced to move. It is called freedom. I shouldn't have do whatever my superiours tell me. I have no doubt there are people in this country who think your the greatest thing, but I should not be forced into that same thought process. And more of my rights shouldn't be taken away because of other peoples insecurities. Your opinion is respectable, I feel it is just off base. There has to be other ways. I feel the more people that die, the further away solution.

 

[Damn True]

Burly,

Semper Fidelis bro!

If it get's ugly I'll gladly shave pull out my ear rings and be right back in a flight suit.

Right there beside you.

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Damn True


Right there beside you.

Ditto.

 

[DamienC]

Originally posted by powderboy
The Middle East is one helluva scary place if you ask me. Those guys have been at each other's throats for thousands of years...

This reminds me of an article I read about Palestinian and Jewish stand-up comedians (no joke). One of them (can't remember if they were Jewish or Palestinian) said something like this:

The Arabs and the Israelis keep going on and on about how each of them are God's chosen people and that's why they should be the rightful owners of the "Holy Land" around Jerusalem.

If they're God's chosen people, then why do they live in a desert? Maybe the Tahitians are God's chosen people.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by myNAMEis


The great thing about this country is supposed to be that I can have my own opinions without being forced to move. It is called freedom. I shouldn't have do whatever my superiours tell me. I have no doubt there are people in this country who think your the greatest thing, but I should not be forced into that same thought process. And more of my rights shouldn't be taken away because of other peoples insecurities. Your opinion is respectable, I feel it is just off base. There has to be other ways. I feel the more people that die, the further away solution.

Like i said,
Its fine if you have your own opinions, but dont voice them unless you have a clear solution in mind. You cant just run around saying things when you have no real knowledge of a situation.
No one wants to kill simply for the sake of killing, but tell me whats better, taking out the bad guys, or waiting until they try and take us out again?
I shouldnt have said I hate you, but i was in a bit of a mood when i saw what you wrote earlier.
And tell me also...for all of these rights that you're whining about being taken away..how did you get them in the first place? What did you do to deserve them? How have you helped the cause for freedom lately?
Im not trying to force you to move, but if you are so unhappy, maybe you should. Go to communist China and see how your little rights play out there.
Heck, even go to Australia and try to buy a weapon so someone doesnt break into your house. Hey, go to any other country in the world, and try to get a privat pilots license.
Have fun.
And as for not thinking im great...good. I dont think im great at all. Im actually a pretty dirty bastard when it comes down to it, so go ahead and dislike me, but next time veterans day comes around and you're sitting in your living room, off from work, take about 3 seconds to think of the thousands of americans who gaver their lives so you could whine like a little girl.

Im done with this one.

Damn True, fourgvn...thanks for the support,

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by BurlySurly


Like i said,
Its fine if you have your own opinions, but dont voice them unless you have a clear solution in mind. You cant just run around saying things when you have no real knowledge of a situation.
No one wants to kill simply for the sake of killing, but tell me whats better, taking out the bad guys, or waiting until they try and take us out again?
I shouldnt have said I hate you, but i was in a bit of a mood when i saw what you wrote earlier.
And tell me also...for all of these rights that you're whining about being taken away..how did you get them in the first place? What did you do to deserve them? How have you helped the cause for freedom lately?
Im not trying to force you to move, but if you are so unhappy, maybe you should. Go to communist China and see how your little rights play out there.
Heck, even go to Australia and try to buy a weapon so someone doesnt break into your house. Hey, go to any other country in the world, and try to get a privat pilots license.
Have fun.
And as for not thinking im great...good. I dont think im great at all. Im actually a pretty dirty bastard when it comes down to it, so go ahead and dislike me, but next time veterans day comes around and you're sitting in your living room, off from work, take about 3 seconds to think of the thousands of americans who gaver their lives so you could whine like a little girl.

Im done with this one.

Damn True, fourgvn...thanks for the support,

I fully support the men and women that are willing to give up their lives so that we may live in a free society... free from tiranny, oppression, terrorism, communism.

I just love all these new age pie-in-the-sky people that think the world would be such a Utopia if we would all just be peacefull. Yeah, that would be real nice, but very far from reality. Reality is, this is a very hostile world we live in. If we throw down our arms and stop defending our country, we will all be slaves to some other country that has enough military power. That's reality! It's unfortunate, but having a strong military is the ONLY way to keep things balanced and semi-peacefull. There will ALWAYS be some country that wants to rule the world. Hitler was a perfect example.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by BurlySurly


Like i said,
Its fine if you have your own opinions, but dont voice them unless you have a clear solution in mind. You cant just run around saying things when you have no real knowledge of a situation.
No one wants to kill simply for the sake of killing, but tell me whats better, taking out the bad guys, or waiting until they try and take us out again?
I shouldnt have said I hate you, but i was in a bit of a mood when i saw what you wrote earlier.
And tell me also...for all of these rights that you're whining about being taken away..how did you get them in the first place? What did you do to deserve them? How have you helped the cause for freedom lately?
Im not trying to force you to move, but if you are so unhappy, maybe you should. Go to communist China and see how your little rights play out there.
Heck, even go to Australia and try to buy a weapon so someone doesnt break into your house. Hey, go to any other country in the world, and try to get a privat pilots license.
Have fun.
And as for not thinking im great...good. I dont think im great at all. Im actually a pretty dirty bastard when it comes down to it, so go ahead and dislike me, but next time veterans day comes around and you're sitting in your living room, off from work, take about 3 seconds to think of the thousands of americans who gaver their lives so you could whine like a little girl.

Im done with this one.

Damn True, fourgvn...thanks for the support,

........land of the free
home of the brave.

(people tend to forget that last part as it is usually drowned out by cheering and slurping of beer)

 

[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by zibbler


I fully support the men and women that are willing to give up their lives so that we may live in a free society... free from tiranny, oppression, terrorism, communism.

I just love all these new age pie-in-the-sky people that think the world would be such a Utopia if we would all just be peacefull. Yeah, that would be real nice, but very far from reality. Reality is, this is a very hostile world we live in. If we throw down our arms and stop defending our country, we will all be slaves to some other country that has enough military power. That's reality! It's unfortunate, but having a strong military is the ONLY way to keep things balanced and semi-peacefull. There will ALWAYS be some country that wants to rule the world. Hitler was a perfect example.

Don't get me wrong, my cousin is in boot camp for the Marine Corps right now and my best friend is a Forward Observer in the First Battalion 14th Marines. But I think that one of the biggest falcy that military folks believe is that to join the military you automatically means you will give up your life. Yes you can put yourself in danger but the term "Pogue" is there for a reason. Hell my cousin's MOS is intelligence specialist...he's going to be a translator....the chances that he'll give up his life for his country is slim to none. I'm not trying to slam the military, far from it, I've the greatest respect for people in the military but face it my friend who's the FO, probably one of the most dangerous MOS's, even in today's heated atmosphere...all he does is sit on his ass. A lot of military folks say that they are serving the country but be honest how many service men and women actually do something for the betterment of the country aside from marching and scrubbing toilets. Wouldn't it be better for the country if you gave your time volunteering in a school or helping build houses for families in need? I respect your choice..but I can't help but feel that your energies be put to better use in other areas that would benefit the PEOPLE of the United States...rather than fight another war for oil. If you were curious I spent 2 years at a military school and was accepted to the Naval Academy back in 96...I joined the Peace Corps instead. And no I'm not a tree huggin hippie. If anything I said has insulted you, I'm sorry but I felt it needed to be said.


Zibbler...you say that the military is the ONLY way to keep things peaceful. Lets break it down ...if I'm a 6'4" 210 pound guy..if I resorted to violence as my ONLY way to keep things peaceful what kind of person would I be? well an A$$hole for one.

I'll just say this...if politicians can do their jobs half as well as my Marine buddy does his ...then there would BE no need for the military.

You say that they will ALWAYS be one country that wants to rule the world, Hitler being the example you used...from the evidence I'm sorry to say but that would be us. We essentially created the Taliban AND Saddam. Up until '98 we paid the salaries of every high ranking Taliban official, why? Russia and oil. Nearly all their terroist techniques, we taught them to fight against the Russians. The Caspian Sea has more oil in it than the entire Middle East. UniCal, a giant oil conglomerate wanted to build a pipeline through Afganistan and were slipping the Taliban millions of dollars for the contract. When they gave the contract to an Argentinian oil company guess who got pissed? What folks don't know is that there was already talk about military action in Afganistan in July '01 and a projected date for October that same year.

And Saddam....nearly EVERYTHING he has we gave to him. During the Iran-Iraq war we gave them plans for chemical and biological weapons. We gave him support during the 80's when he gassed entire villiages. I don't believe that we need to remove him from power. If he follows the UN resolutions and lets the weapons inspectors back in, then I don't see why we should commit our troops. Sure we complain about how bad Saddam is, and yes he is an evil man....but what of our "friends" General Musariff (sp?) the dictator of Pakistan. this is a guy who HAS nukes and has said that he wouldn't hesitate to use them on India, this is a guy who looks up to Napolean AND Hitler. But just because he is playing nice with us, Pakistan all of a sudden becomes a free and democratic nation. But Pakistan doesn't have access to billions of barrels of oil.

I could go on for a while but its midnight and talking politics drains me mentally and physically.


basically the jist of my rant. Violence begets violence... our two best friends are now are two worst enemies. We supported their violence for our gain. and now that violence comes back to find us.

Never did a war end that didn't start another.