Brakes: LX v/s Saint
- Thread starter marra
- Start date
Well in terms of DH the Saints were ment for DH/FR, so you won't go wrong there!
I dunno about LX brakes, if you said XT I'd say those are probably closer to Saint type stuff than say LX. If you are considering Saints you should just go Saint or XT (but Saint is designed for DH/FR riding).
They are probably similar to a point as most are (like Hayes 9's and Mag's) being a different lever but same caliper, then the El Camino's change 100%. Shimano brakes are probably similar (different levers) but very similar calipers.
I dunno about LX brakes, if you said XT I'd say those are probably closer to Saint type stuff than say LX. If you are considering Saints you should just go Saint or XT (but Saint is designed for DH/FR riding).
They are probably similar to a point as most are (like Hayes 9's and Mag's) being a different lever but same caliper, then the El Camino's change 100%. Shimano brakes are probably similar (different levers) but very similar calipers.
The thing about shimano is that they dont sell the levers with their new stuff. They sell them seperately. So I think if you're deciding whether to get the saint or lx caliper.. get lx, and saint/xt levers.
hmmm....since when does one "shift" their brakes?zmtber said:
Am I giving him too much credit to guess he is thinking dual control?zedro said:hmmm....since when does one "shift" their brakes?
To the OP: Go Saint for DH.
since s(atan)himano introduced dual control...zedro said:hmmm....since when does one "shift" their brakes?
yeah yeah shimano big evil company and all the others are doing it for the sick children...chuffer said:
Bish...........every time I buy a $150 dollar sram derailleur, glaciers thicken by 2%, a blue whale sends a thank you note and baby seals rip off their skin and mail it to me just to say "thanks for saving my siblings".zedro said:yeah yeah shimano big evil company and all the others are doing it for the sick children...
I bought a shimano derailleur cable once and mothra and gammera fought outside my front door for like two months.
.........no thank you
thank you. you just made my day, i can rest in peace now.kidwoo said:
hahaha where did you come up with that kidwoo !?
Thomas Vanderham and Wade Simmons both lost their pinkys from a dual pro on pro shocker session gone wrong according to my video camera.sanjuro said:
All the levers are the same. Get Saint or XT calibers. those two are the same, the only difference is the rotors you get(one has oversized saint, one is regular xt, obviously). I assume the LX does a great job for small bike stuff(deores kick ass), but i dont know about the DH/FR stuff.
the irony of that whole ad campaign is that they dont use dual control on their freeride bikessanjuro said:Thomas Vanderham and Wade Simmons uses Dual Control, according to this ad...
sama1ter said:
they are not the same, saint and XT ships from Japan, LX and Hone ships from Spore or Malaysia, castings are the same but that doesnt mean they are the same parts, shimano doesnt sell lx at 30% less retail for nothing.
as for other differences, the cheaper ones use BH59 hose, Saint uses BH63, the more expensive one has banjo 90degree entry in the caliper, and AFAIK saint ships with the more expensive pads. i say if you want to same some coin, use the LX levers but i think the calipers are worth the extra money for better hose routing and pads.
In terms of performance the LX caliper will not lose anything to the Saint - they both have the same sized pistons, the only difference worth noting is the two piece vs one piece calliper. The latter will only affect weight (one piece is lighter due to the lack of bolts). The LX will come stock with M07 resin pads however, which are nowhere near as nice as the M06 full sintered pads the saints include. If the brakes are for DH, i'd advise going with Hone - which is the same caliper as LX - but includes the sintered pads. Or if you have the money, just grab saints.
Vitox do you own hone, lx, or new deore callipers?
At least in the past, all shimano hydraulic calipers and levers I have owned (from deore through to saint) have been japanese made. Sounds to me like you are making guesses based on derailleurs/shifters which are not the same thing. But regardless - you are making a completely false assumption that manufacturing quality will differ in s/pore or malaysia. Every (and I mean every) shimano part I have ever owned has been made to the highest standard, and quality is one thing that is never lacking, even in their lower end parts. I suggest that unless you have conclusive evidence to back up your statements, that you pipe down on the country of origin issues. This may have been a concern 10-15 years ago, but in this day and age it's not.
You are correct that the hone/lx/deore (new) run a straight fitting at the calliper - that uses an olive setup like the lever. I prefer the 90deg banjo too, but it will make zero performance difference. In terms of pads, they all cost about the same. Deore, LX, and XT come with resin pads (obviously for xc/trail use) while Hone and Saint come with full sintered metal pads (for dh - but imo these are the best all round). Finally, the Saint and XT levers have higher end pivot hardware and a rubber boot for the lever shaft which will mean longer lasting levers. Hope I covered everything.
By all means - buy the topend stuff if you can afford it, but having owned almost every shimano hydraulic that has come out - I can say that, given the right pads, they all work the same (incredibly well
).
Vitox do you own hone, lx, or new deore callipers?
At least in the past, all shimano hydraulic calipers and levers I have owned (from deore through to saint) have been japanese made. Sounds to me like you are making guesses based on derailleurs/shifters which are not the same thing. But regardless - you are making a completely false assumption that manufacturing quality will differ in s/pore or malaysia. Every (and I mean every) shimano part I have ever owned has been made to the highest standard, and quality is one thing that is never lacking, even in their lower end parts. I suggest that unless you have conclusive evidence to back up your statements, that you pipe down on the country of origin issues. This may have been a concern 10-15 years ago, but in this day and age it's not.
You are correct that the hone/lx/deore (new) run a straight fitting at the calliper - that uses an olive setup like the lever. I prefer the 90deg banjo too, but it will make zero performance difference. In terms of pads, they all cost about the same. Deore, LX, and XT come with resin pads (obviously for xc/trail use) while Hone and Saint come with full sintered metal pads (for dh - but imo these are the best all round). Finally, the Saint and XT levers have higher end pivot hardware and a rubber boot for the lever shaft which will mean longer lasting levers. Hope I covered everything.
By all means - buy the topend stuff if you can afford it, but having owned almost every shimano hydraulic that has come out - I can say that, given the right pads, they all work the same (incredibly well
).
udi ive got saint on one xtr on another, i had absolutely forgotten about the 1 part cast vs the other. companies have hyped 1 piece calipers as being stiffer than bolted ones, logic seems to be behind that argument, but who knows if its a percievable increase in performance
as for the procedence of parts, i do the "shopping cart" (think container) for the largest bike company here so thats why i have to sort things out like consolidating from different sources etc.
anyway, youre right its just a supposition that japan has the highest quality, but hey i got this the other day from shimano that seems to support my claim
btw the hinge pin on is different, but yea i think you covered it pretty good.
as for the procedence of parts, i do the "shopping cart" (think container) for the largest bike company here so thats why i have to sort things out like consolidating from different sources etc.
anyway, youre right its just a supposition that japan has the highest quality, but hey i got this the other day from shimano that seems to support my claim
so, well, i didnt even mention the word "quality" in my post but you still reacted to what you supposed i was saying, while at the same time contradicting yourself by offering very accurate and detailed information that would back my "shimano doesnt charge 30% retail for nothing", i hope that exerpt from the april newsletter explains my argument, that is, unless you suppose shimano would voluntarily make parts in factories that are more expensive, with no benefit.shimano said:
btw the hinge pin on is different, but yea i think you covered it pretty good.
Not sure if there's a performance improvement, but brake fluid started comming out the middle of the caliper due to the seal failing in the two-piece design. Monoblock=less chances for leakage at least.vitox said:
On some brakes you can see some flex when you squeeze the levers real tight.
thats one of those marketing illusions that seem obvious and sells fancy looking aluminum blocks (cough Hope cough), except when you consider steel bolts are stiffer and stronger and also can be preloaded, unlike a monoblock which will start flexing the moment any pressure is exerted.vitox said:
Its a caliper per caliper basis, but monoblock does not indicate a stiffer block.
get an avy
I think they're made of solid aluminum as well as bolts.
I think they're made of solid aluminum as well as bolts.
Saint's use a 1 piece forged caliper and under continued braking conditions (such as in DH) the monoblock design resists brake fade much better.
I don't see how this could possibly be marketing since there is empirical evidence to back it up. Not even an arguement about if they are better suited for DH than LX.
When I got my Saint's they came with both Saint rotors and XT 6" 203 rotors and both types of pads (resin & metal). They are a great bang for the buck.
Steel is a harder metal than aluminum, hence the reason that no company (I think - correct me if I am wrong) uses aluminum bolts to connect the 2 caliper halves. Aluminum (as a softer metal) could flex, but that is dictated by the manufacturing process. In this case, a forged caliper is stronger.zedro said:
I don't see how this could possibly be marketing since there is empirical evidence to back it up. Not even an arguement about if they are better suited for DH than LX.
When I got my Saint's they came with both Saint rotors and XT 6" 203 rotors and both types of pads (resin & metal). They are a great bang for the buck.
dhpimp said:
Sweet.
where?
both are good, but the "saint" brake is more expensive and better, but there are some difference:marra said:
A difference is the seal that has the saint of the manacle support, this protects it from the powder and dirt
the pads, "saint" has a metalic pads, and the "lx" has a compound pads
I just bought a pair of saint calipers/levers/6 bolt 203 mm rotors today, hope it was a good choice over the juicys...
Every pair of saint brakes i have ridden made me
Every pair of saint brakes i have ridden made me
i have a saint brakes because the price is very good and worked very good, the look is nice
big mistake, juicy's or hopes babymanhattanprjkt83 said:I just bought a pair of saint calipers/levers/6 bolt 203 mm rotors today, hope it was a good choice over the juicys...
Every pair of saint brakes i have ridden made me
i have some juicy carbons on my trail bike...gemini2k said:big mistake, juicy's or hopes baby
it is my opinion that the juicy owners that talk smack on the saints usually have no experience with them, if you have ridden them it is near impossible to say anything bad.
true. i've heard a lot of smack about hayes from people that have had a problem with one brake setup once.
i had a prob with a hayes setup once, and went through a lot trying to fix it, with no luck. eventually i sent it back to hayes. they sent me a new setup, properly bled and all. haven't had a problem in the past 3 years. nuff said. i guess my point is, everyone has a different expereince: just stick with what works best for you.
i had a prob with a hayes setup once, and went through a lot trying to fix it, with no luck. eventually i sent it back to hayes. they sent me a new setup, properly bled and all. haven't had a problem in the past 3 years. nuff said. i guess my point is, everyone has a different expereince: just stick with what works best for you.