[3rdrail9er]

Hey all, first time poster, first post. I've been lurkin' a bit so here goes...

Looking to move into my first real bike. I ride 90% XC in the Mt. Diablo foothills here in the bay area but am starting to make excursions to places like the Confluence Trail in Auburn, Tamarancho in Marin and FLume Trail SLT etc etc
With a budget of around 1800 bucks soup to nuts, I started out looking at the TREK 6700. I was mostly concerned about the component set of any new bike wanting at least X9 or XT level components and FOX front fork and was only able to get that level of component in a hard tail.

Then I started looking at the SANTA CRUZ Superlight. For a bit less than 2k, I can get the Superlight RXC and be pretty dialed as far as my xc goes. I do quite a bit of climbing but when I descend, my heavier hardtail and overall aggressive style has me way out in front of my group of regulars who all ride light weight XC bikes. However, they are always waiting for me at the summit...

I wanted to get some solid feedback regarding a single pivot XC bike like the Superlight vs hardtail. Honestly, I just cant afford to step up to 2k plus on this bike. I hope to ride it for at least 5-7 years with upkeep.

Also, I noticed that the SANTA CRUZ retains its value pretty well and I can get a LT BLUR used on Craigslist but that article in MTB ACTION regarding the short life span of shocks/forks gave me concern. however, if I buy my bike new with FOX 32's on the front, I dont plan on replacing that fork for at least 3 years unlees I blow it out which is highly doubtfull.

Does anyone agree that a SANTA CRUZ Superlight should be able to take me over and down most of the trails I encounter as long as Im not totally mobbing down the hill balls out?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[3rdrail9er]

furthermore, my regular gang, when I mention thinking about all mountain rides, suggest that I buy the bike to match what I do the most of: XC.

Is the difference in the descent really significant going from an all mountian to and XC? cause I like going fast and hitting turns at speed...

SHOOT, looks like there's a beginners forum but you know what? I ride 4x a week at least 7 hours a week in the saddle. I know the difference between component sets and the difference between a ROCK shock dart and a Fox FLOAT...

so I'm staying out of that puddle...

 

[UNHrider]

any chance of demo'ing one and trying it out on your local trails? its the only real way to know. maybe listen to the guys you ride with since they know you, how you ride, and the trails you ride on.

 

[3rdrail9er]

I could head over to MARIN and Sunshine Bikes ( MTB epicenter) in Fairfax has some demos but it's 60$ to take it out on the trails. Of course the money goes towards your bike purchase but still...

If Im going to buy new, I want to support my LBS rather than buy from one 60 miles away across the bay.

My heart says go with the SANTA CRUZ. If I find that it's not enough for me, I can always sell it and upgrade...

BUt any insight to single point pivots would be nice...is new shock tech enough to warrant a single pivot?
Im not trying to pretend that SANTA CRUZ doesnt know their stuff.
it's jsut due dilligence. I've been playing in rock bands for 25 years and I've never spent this kind of dough on any of my guitars in a single purchase. In fact, Ive never spent this kind of dough in a single purchase on anything that didnt have a V8 in it...

 

[amishmatt]

To oversimplify, the main difference between an "XC" bike and an "AM" bike at the same price point will come down to weight, geometry and travel. The XC bike will have a lighter frame, and probably lighter components, and will have steeper geometry and less travel suited to going uphill better than down. The AM bike will probably have a slightly heavier frame and components, and will have geometry and suspension less biased to uphill efficiency, so it will go DH better/faster. The difference may be minor, but it can be significant, depending on which bikes you're comparing.

Looking at SC bikes, the Superlight has a 70d HA. The "AM" equivalent Nickel has a 68d HA. Only two degrees, but it will be noticeable both going up and going down.

Your friends are right that you should buy a bike for what you ride most, but it isn't only where you ride, it's also how you ride. If you enjoy ripping the DH, you may want to consider a bike that isn't totally XC biased. There's a compromise with either choice.

On single pivots, they're perfectly capable, and yes, the newer shocks help them perform better. That said, something like the Nickel will perform better for it's intended use (AM) than the Superlight due to the linkage that controls the shock. Again, tradeoffs for either choice - straight single pivots are inexpensive, lighter and less to maintain, while linkage driven single pivots and other types of suspension may perform better, but usually cost more and are a little heavier.

Don't believe what you read in MBA. MBA is good for one thing - emergency toilet paper. Unless you're buying a super high end finicky race-only type product, you'll get years of use out of a shock or fork as long as you don't abuse it and maintain it. I rode a RS Pike for five years and only changed the oil a couple of times and it's still going strong on a different bike. Also, don't get hung up on particular brands, like Fox. They make a great product, but so does Rock Shox.

 

[3rdrail9er]

Solid info Amish... thanks for the tips. Figured as much about the rag...it's the same in my industry. They get paid to review and only review what the get paid for, not whats real...it's like the Backpacker magazine that makes you feel like your not worthy if your grip costed less than a grand. I've had a 30$ tent for 15 years thats handled 8 people crammed inside playing poker on HAlloween night in the Trinity alps at 6000 feet while a brutal storm raged outside: no problem.

As much as I lust for the new Nickel, I'm dictated by my wallet. I liked the TREKS I sat on in my range but they were AM's or hardtails. I notice too a LOT of Specialized bikes on the used listings, easily 5:1 ratio of Specialized to Santa Cruz. I assume its just because they are a popular bike initially?



Everything we go down, I've climbed to get up. Most of my fast downhill riding is firetrails in the Mt Diablo foothills with some strong rock patches in there and a few single track. The single tracks out here are not like the single tracks in the Sierra or Marin headlands which are better for for blasting down. Generally they are tracking steep hillsides with near vert on the downside and I'm descending at a crawl. You DON'T want to be going off the trail in your clips or your looking at a 30 foot slide before you can stop at least...

But plowing down the WALL POINT trail after a brutal climb is so rewarding. In the end if I go with the Superlight RXC, Ill just slow down a little, arrive alive and maybe start saving for my AM purchase in the following few years for those one a month excursions to the rough.

 

[golgiaparatus]

If you do mostly XC, but want to be able to descend fast then I'd get an aggressive XC bike like a Specialized Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Tallboy.

Problem is that $1800 wont get you a new one. With that amount of cash I'd hit Ebay. Just make sure you get something that fits.

Don't overlook the 29" wheels, they will give you a bit more ability to rip in the rocks, but without adding a ton of weight or suspension that will hurt you on the way up.

 

[UNHrider]

i think people get hung up too much in the marketing. 5 years ago "all mountain" bikes would just be called xc bikes and you'd never worry about riding your xc bike on "all mountain" trails, it'd just be another trail.

what bike are you riding now?

 

[3rdrail9er]

oh god, it's embarrassing what I ride now: 2009 Hardrock Sport with ROCK SHOX DUKE front fork and v-raptors( I blew out the RST p.o.s. fork in the first week or two)

It's not embarrassing to say I bought it for 200$ with 60 miles on the garmin and zero tire wear from a chick who thought it was too big for her (15.5). Im 5'6" and really just wanted to be able to get on the trails while I save for my true bike and thats what I've done. I ride 3 x a week min and have taken this little banger down the Auburn Confluence trails and Mt DIABLO WALL POINT
plus multiple other odd rides including pulling a trailer full of gear 3 miles of rugged steep into Pt. Reyes for Camping( 2 trips each way).

basically,I thoroughly clean,grease and oil all the components after every ride. THis has kept me only having to replace the hanger due to stripped bolt.

I agree with all the definition of bikes. I have no doubt that as long as I am relatively carefull about my lines, the XC should take me anywhere I want to go with in reason. I now have $2k and am waiting for the prices to drop after INNTERBIKE so I can grab my new bike.

In the meantime, I continue to peruse the classifieds and craigslist and all the bike sites...beats looking at pr0n

 

[UNHrider]

whatever you upgrade to will be an improvement over your hardrock. Id say try and ride whatever you're going to buy, and don't overlook getting used again. you'd be able to get a hell of a bike for about $2000

 

[Sandwich]

I agree with people.

Buy a bike that hovers between 4-6" of travel, unless you're a competitor (3-4") or will use the bike for occasional lift assisted use. I ride a Trek Fuel EX, and it's absolutely brilliant. I feel ridiculously comfortable descending on it and climbing is, for the most part, painless. It's probably one of the best climbing bikes I've owned. I bought it used for less than 2g's (I can't remember, think it was 1700), and the only thing I've had to replace on it was the chain and cassette, which is generally a no-brainer on any used bike.

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting you should buy an EX (though you should), but consider a used bike to get more value for your dollar without missing out on anything. The only thing you really miss out on not buying new is shop support. If you're a newbie, that's a great thing to have, but if you have some experience or are willing to learn, you will quickly find yourself not visiting the shop to tune a derailleur or replace a chain. I haven't bought a new bike in 13 years.

As for the single pivot, you have to be careful what you get. There are plenty of good single pivots, and quite a few bad ones. I had a cannondale prophet that blew through its travel very easily, and had a firm initial stroke. It pedaled OK, but the suspension performance was garbage. The trek is much more progressive, though it's essentially a single pivot as well. I'd look for one with some kind of linkage if you can get it, as a rule of thumb.

As for MBA, I agree that magazine is good for shiny pictures and swatting flies. Each manufacturer has good and bad stuff. I would say my 2010 Boxxer was one of the worst products I've owned...but the 2011 is one of the best. My Fox Float is great for suspension, but the bushings are ****. You'll find great stuff from some people on some years, and the best bet is to do your research.

 

[jacksonpt]

I get why you are hung up on the components, but if you plan on keeping the bike for any length of time, or plan on putting in any significant hours in the saddle, then those parts are going to wear out pretty quick, and you're left with the same bike you could have gotten for less money.

Buy a good frame and good suspension (since it's expensive to replace and generally lasts longer). Shifters, brakes, derailleurs, etc... upgrade those as you go.

 

[3rdrail9er]

Great feedback all...really appreciated.

I do all my own minor maintenance. When my hanger was loose, I blew out my chain twice on consecutive rides( resulting in me takign it to the shop to find out why~ thanks god I had brought a bike tool with me cause I was 4 miles from the road and 6 miles from home). I can replace my own chain. I tune my rear deraileur every month but I wouldn't say I'm a savvy garage bike repair man in the least. It may make sense for me to deal with a local shop.

I peruse Craigslist every day. Thing is, the bikes being sold around here are probably ridden on the local trails like DOWNIEVILLE, AUBURN, TAHOE etc etc. And god knows I dont want to drop 1500$ plus on a 5 year old bike thats been ridden by someone like me!

I also would be paying my bike mechanic to put on any upgrades so it negates the money saved by buying used in the long run. I probably will keep my hardrock for my kids and learn by wrenching on it...we'll see.

Armed with SOLID INTEL form all sources, this one included, money in hand, Im waiting for the end of season bike sales next month to see what I can pick up. I've listed some vintage stereo equipment on Craigslist. If they sell, it means the difference between a Superlight and a NICKEL AM or BLUR LT.

I am going to take a hard look at other bikes mentioned above as well.

 

[3rdrail9er]

HEy guys, just wanted to follow up:
I pulled the trigger on a 2012 Santa Cruz Superlight RXC. Got my LBS to do it for 1899 tax included. Called in a favor with my Ultimate Support music stand rep and had their bike division( FEEDBACK STANDS) send me a pro elite for 76$ View attachment 108260

man, the best way to describe the change is nimble. I am finding new lines easier and of course climbing faster. THe week after I bought it, I did a 50 mile thruhike on the john muir trail in the Eastern Sierras. After all that hiking at altitude, when I came back to my normal XC route with it's climbs: just crushed it~

Im getting used to the lack of gravity fed speed but the geometry is matched to me now so in the end, it's about the same...

I'm now in the midst of a passionate love affair with my new bike. Hitting TAMARANCHO in FAIRFAX CA this SUN. so ficken stoked.