Getting a new fork for dh and freeride, either 888 or Dorado X-works, going on a VP-Free.
Which would you rather have and why?
Which would you rather have and why?
888 v. Dorado X-works
- Thread starter OGRipper
- Start date
888
Stiffer laterally, very evident in super rough tight turns
Feels the same in every situation (supah plush) due to no threshold valving
Much less maintenence/setup hassle based on what I've heard from friends/owners of new dorados.
Doesn't come with stickers that look like they belong on Japanese robot toys
TWO FOR THE PRICE OF ONE!!!!
Dorado has a much better integrated stem system however. The zoke one is a little long for me. Ride height is a little better than the 888 with stock crowns.
Stiffer laterally, very evident in super rough tight turns
Feels the same in every situation (supah plush) due to no threshold valving
Much less maintenence/setup hassle based on what I've heard from friends/owners of new dorados.
Doesn't come with stickers that look like they belong on Japanese robot toys
TWO FOR THE PRICE OF ONE!!!!
Dorado has a much better integrated stem system however. The zoke one is a little long for me. Ride height is a little better than the 888 with stock crowns.
nah get the dh dorados much better then 888s 
I'd pick last years Dorado over both of them
Oooh, you're right. Anybody want an 888? Sounds like I need a dorado after all.dh alex said:nah get the dh dorados much better then 888s
Thanks Kidwoo.
I'm leaning towards the 888, but I like the concept of SPV (haven't really used it on a fork) and I agree that the dorado stem is better - I'm currently running a 50mm stem and will need to go to 65 with the 888 unless I get something custom like go-ride or whatever. Not too concerned about ride height.
Does anyone have any negative experience with the Dorado other than the price? I heard there's an issue with the spv and low speed valving, something about some mid-production changes...???
Thanks.
PS, Neversummersnow, Iagree last year's dorado is a sweet fork, but I want a 200mm fork. Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure last year's was 170 - significantly less travel than 200 anyway.
I'm leaning towards the 888, but I like the concept of SPV (haven't really used it on a fork) and I agree that the dorado stem is better - I'm currently running a 50mm stem and will need to go to 65 with the 888 unless I get something custom like go-ride or whatever. Not too concerned about ride height.
Does anyone have any negative experience with the Dorado other than the price? I heard there's an issue with the spv and low speed valving, something about some mid-production changes...???
Thanks.
PS, Neversummersnow, Iagree last year's dorado is a sweet fork, but I want a 200mm fork. Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure last year's was 170 - significantly less travel than 200 anyway.
why not a White Bros DH 2.0 or its little brother the DH 1.8
the DH 2.0 (on bike) has more adjustments than a 888, is the stiffest inverted fork ive ever ridden, and it feels phenominal.
the DH 1.8 has the same adjustments as the 888, same price, and has the same features as the 2.0 minus one adjustment.
Not to mention WB has the best customer service ever!
if you have any questions on either, just ask
the DH 2.0 (on bike) has more adjustments than a 888, is the stiffest inverted fork ive ever ridden, and it feels phenominal.
the DH 1.8 has the same adjustments as the 888, same price, and has the same features as the 2.0 minus one adjustment.
Not to mention WB has the best customer service ever!
if you have any questions on either, just ask
Attachments
I have heard white brothers forks require more maintenance and are more difficult to maintain than Marz forks, have you found this to be true?
What is the additional adjustment? (yes I am too lazy to look it up myself)
What is the additional adjustment? (yes I am too lazy to look it up myself)
My fork has required minimal maintenance, i had zokes for years, i put some slick honey around the seals and keep it well lubed just as i did with the zokes.Ronny Grady said:
the 2.0 has Rebound, Compression, Progressiveness, Bottom Out, Preload, and Spring Engagement adjustments
Hmmm...thanks for making my decision more complicated VV!
Anyone else with an opinion on the White Bros.? I'm a little concerned about the size of the company, availability of parts, etc. Haven't owned any of their products since I bought a gem cartridge for a judy about a million years ago, but from what I recall I guess that was pretty nice...
Anyone else with an opinion on the White Bros.? I'm a little concerned about the size of the company, availability of parts, etc. Haven't owned any of their products since I bought a gem cartridge for a judy about a million years ago, but from what I recall I guess that was pretty nice...
I'm with Kidwoo...
and he rode all those forks, including the WB.
and he rode all those forks, including the WB.
The reason people are not running them now is simply because of how bad they sucked in the past. I know they are supposed to be much improved,ViolentVolante said:
but for people who have been around for a few years, those memories take a while to fade.
I can't tell you how many I saw crapped out at races over the years.
And then seeing you miss practice at Mt. Snow this year because of your fork, did very little to change my mind.
Give it time though, I just now got to the point this year, when I realized how sick No Fear's riding gear is. All I could remember was all the mullets draped over their very lame t-shirts in 1993. So, it only took me 11 years to get over my bias.
WB defenately makes sweet forks. BUT, compared to the 888 it's not as stiff, it needs more maintaiance, and doesnt it weight more?
Total overhaul of the 888 is done in 10min, thats not tha case with the closed cartridge on the WB's.
....and more adustments means better??
The 888 got the adjustments you need!!
e
Total overhaul of the 888 is done in 10min, thats not tha case with the closed cartridge on the WB's.
....and more adustments means better??
The 888 got the adjustments you need!!
e
This should make your decision easier. The Dorado 200 is not currently available because Manitou has been reworking it for the last few months. If you find one at this time it would be the earlier version. I'm not sure if those will be upgradable, but I would think for $1800 they would.
If you do decide on a Dorado I'd get the new 180 version. It has the same oversized uppers and lowers as the 200, but the proven internals of the older fork.
As for my decision...8888888888888...and lov'n it.
If you do decide on a Dorado I'd get the new 180 version. It has the same oversized uppers and lowers as the 200, but the proven internals of the older fork.
As for my decision...8888888888888...and lov'n it.
WB DH forks and the DT freeride fork are no longer closed cartridge forksEspen said:
The DH 2.0 comes in at 7.75lbs and next years will be around 7lbs with some new internals. They have a new 5.3lbs DH fork coming out, look for it at interbike, it looks and feels killer
and jeremy, i missed practice after i twisted the fork badly right in that one section coming out of the woods, by the creek, some stupid onlooker ran infront of me right before that chute and i ate ****
not the forks fault
ViolentVolante said:
Please explain what kind of system it now uses! A lot of guys I know got new DH2.0 (and 1.8) forks and they use the good old closed cartridge with the piggyback.
5.3 pound DH forks?? Haha, made out of nanotubes?? around 2 punds lighter than all the lightest forks around, lets wait and see how the durability and servicelife will be of these things..............
Espen
I like external lubrication system like found on 89% of the Boxxers.
price issue, 888 about half the price, and one can't say that it performs any worse than the "X-works". Yeah, no one has an X-works, but there's absolutely no data to say it's any worse. Chassi-wise, I'd rather have a standard fork over an inverted. Yes you can make an inverted stiffer by increasing the diameter of the tubes and such, but the 888 is 7.5lbs, dw said that the x-works dorado is 8.5lbs, due to the changes (basically beefed up) it makes sense, but it's a lot easier to engineer a stiff standard fork than a stiff inverted, you can see that manitou has obviously gone to some pretty extreme measures to make their x-works "stiff", but cost has become as extreme, and again, is it "stiffer"? Again there's nothing to prove that it is....
I'm not sure I would want an 888 over my shiver, the internals of the 888 are somewhat fragile and difficult to work with, but due to the price, there's a lot that i'd buy before i bought an $1800 dorado...avalanche, foes xtd, fox dh fork, 888, shiver, super T, old dorado, white bros....
I'm not sure I would want an 888 over my shiver, the internals of the 888 are somewhat fragile and difficult to work with, but due to the price, there's a lot that i'd buy before i bought an $1800 dorado...avalanche, foes xtd, fox dh fork, 888, shiver, super T, old dorado, white bros....
are you refering to cartridges as judy style, actual cartridges, or the damping leg being a sealed damping "cartridge" if thats what you mean, their DH and FR forks are the 2nd mentioned "cartridge", but its not really a cartridge. download a owners manual if ya want to really see inside oneEspen said:
Oversight of your part...you forgot to include Boxxer to your list! :devil:Jm_ said:
Espen said:
its the same fork espen, no changes with regards to the latest dh3 exept one more bushing, bigger main spring, and a slightly different piggyback body, that and easton brand lower legs.
ViolentVolante said:
its closed if you consider that the suspension fluid is not connected to the bushing area.
its open if you consider that it doesnt have a separate tube because it uses the lower leg as a cartridge
all in all its just as open or closed as a TPC which is considered a cartridge fork, hence the "C" in twinpistoncartridge
which is worst than the Boxxer IMO.Jm_ said:
don't really care about boxxers, but as long as VV and Orven keep posting here I'll be reading this thread, I could look at their avatars for hours... 
mines more thought provokingdante said:don't really care about boxxers, but as long as VV and Orven keep posting here I'll be reading this thread, I could look at their avatars for hours...
really, do you use water based lubesOrven said:
Alright, I got one for ya.JeffD said:
Ditka Vs. Jeff D
Ditka has never been on a dh bike.
And Jeff D has not been on one all season.
When we gone ride Clyde??
Yeah, I thought my case of BMXitus was in permanent remission but I was wrong. I'll be at the second Windrock race and will do plenty of big biking with Brady and you guys after Labor day but until then, it's all protein shakes, bicep kissing and 20" sprinting.
Keep it between y'all, Paul.
Keep it between y'all, Paul.
My friends only have the 200m dorados that have the x works sticker I guess. Anyway that sticker makes the fork perform erratically, kind of like a 2003 boxxer. And my fork (888) outperforms the crap out of both of them (the forks with the stickers I mean). And the data I site was my wrists telling me that the things don't work with consistency in terms of the bumps they want to absorb and the bumps they want to resist. It also twisted just like every other inverted fork.Jm_ said:
Based on last years dorados compared to a DH2.0, I'd be hard pressed to prefer either one over the other in terms of ride characteristics. The WB is pretty much a leave alone system though. You need to set your preload with some spacers in the spring leg and then everything else is just turning a compression or rebound damper screw or changing air pressure in the piggyback. My dh3 that got dh2.0 guts had issues because it assembled by a retard at WB. My case is the only one I know of like this though and every other rebuild I've had on my own as well as seen on others WB forks has been great.
I tried to ride every fork available the last few months boxxer, super t, 888, dorado, shiver, and the only fork that made enough of an impression on me to buy it was the 888.
I just changed the oil in my 888 after about 5 days of solid riding and the crap that came out of the rebound leg needed to be drummed up and shipped to yucca mountain. Initial oil change after 1 day would be highly reccomended more so than with other zokes I've owned. I don't know what they put in there initially but it only slightly resembles decent fork oil. Removal of the spring preload stack is a bitch too (already mentioned by a few folks on this board). Something to consider if you get one.
B
bighitfsr
Guest
1st off there is a very big issue with the mojo boxxer.
You cant get stiff enough springs for it.
The stiffest spring that you can get comes with the cart when you order it.
I've even maxed out the oil heights and its still too soft.
I'm 180lbs with hydropack, full face, full body armour and a mojo boxxer setup as stiff as you can make it will bottom hard of a 6ft drop to tranny.
If your a under 160lbs you'd probably be fine although you'd still want to raise the oil height to max to prevent harsh bottoming (this negates the weight savings the mojo kit offers).
Mojo Boxxer Race vs 03 Dorado:
- dorado does a way better job of ramping up to resist bottom outs.
The mojo boxxer blows thru its travel very quickly.
- similar stiffness
- adjustment way better on dorado(compresion, rebound, wide range of spring rates, dual springs), mojo has only rebound which has a decent range of adjustment most riders are going to want the stiffest spring rates with max oil height so I'd say oil height and spring rate are not really adjustable in practise.
- Weight: Mojo boxxer wins 7lbs vs 8.5lbs
The mojo kit does a good job of curing the issues with the boxxer as it never feels harsh (due to very light compression damping and shimmed damping) and gives you a decent range of rebound adjustment.
You cant get stiff enough springs for it.
The stiffest spring that you can get comes with the cart when you order it.
I've even maxed out the oil heights and its still too soft.
I'm 180lbs with hydropack, full face, full body armour and a mojo boxxer setup as stiff as you can make it will bottom hard of a 6ft drop to tranny.
If your a under 160lbs you'd probably be fine although you'd still want to raise the oil height to max to prevent harsh bottoming (this negates the weight savings the mojo kit offers).
Mojo Boxxer Race vs 03 Dorado:
- dorado does a way better job of ramping up to resist bottom outs.
The mojo boxxer blows thru its travel very quickly.
- similar stiffness
- adjustment way better on dorado(compresion, rebound, wide range of spring rates, dual springs), mojo has only rebound which has a decent range of adjustment most riders are going to want the stiffest spring rates with max oil height so I'd say oil height and spring rate are not really adjustable in practise.
- Weight: Mojo boxxer wins 7lbs vs 8.5lbs
The mojo kit does a good job of curing the issues with the boxxer as it never feels harsh (due to very light compression damping and shimmed damping) and gives you a decent range of rebound adjustment.
I keep going through these decisions myself on an hourly basis. I currently have a Shiver and I am looking at a 180mm Dorado, X-Works, Slider+, 888, and Fox DH (when its available). Certain forks would work much better with my Yeti DH9 (180 Dorado, Slider+) and some would be much worse (888, X Works). I have felt Jeremy's 888 and I'll have to say that that fork is one of the nicest forks I felt from the little that I have ridden it. But then again, I just put Golden Spectro in my Shiver and I just about creamed my riding shorts. Other than the weight issue of my Shiver I keep asking myself what could really be that much better? In addition to already owning the Shiver, the fact that it is inverted is super nice. I have some serious scratches on my upper tubes right where exposed stanchion tubes would be if I had a conventional fork. Decisions, decisions. 
He doesn't want a fork for urban curb drops, he wants it for DH. Go with the 888.ViolentVolante said:
Has anyone ridden them enough to compare the 03 or 180 04 Dorado to the Slider +? The slider weighs less, has spv and costs less than half the price of the Dorado. What would be the upside of getting the Dorado?
-dAn
-dAn