2Stage Bikes (Dual Shock)
- Thread starter VERT1
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whoa - check out the new lahar! crazyness:
I'm afraid... Looks like one of those goofy bikes you can fold up.
wouldn't you destroy that bike the first big rock you nailed with the rear wheel that is bigger than a foot or so? Looks like a horrible flaw unless the bike is just for xtreme singletrack
apparently the previous lahars were pretty bomber. some really cool carbon forming going on there, regardless. i want one, even if it doesnt work - reminds me of my old trimble:
what the hell? am i having a seizure, or does 7/8 posts have nothing to do with the main topic?
i'm very interested in buying one, but they only come in small and medium, and the copper is pretty ugly. plus they come with rs air shocks, and i feel that for dh you really need some good compression adjustable shocks.
i'm very interested in buying one, but they only come in small and medium, and the copper is pretty ugly. plus they come with rs air shocks, and i feel that for dh you really need some good compression adjustable shocks.
Cameron Cole will be rocking one of those at a few Euro races I believe before he comes home and Gets either Silver or Gold in Juniors at the worlds, If he gets Silver, that ok cos it'll be another Kiwi getting the gold anyways.sayndesyn said:wouldn't you destroy that bike the first big rock you nailed with the rear wheel that is bigger than a foot or so? Looks like a horrible flaw unless the bike is just for xtreme singletrack
What kind of drivetrain does that bike run? The only drivetrain part I can see in the picture is a left side crank arm.
Roholff hub in the frame, been that way since about 99.DHCorky said:
but that one pictured isnt completely built, which is why you cant see a chain etc.
its gonna be one interesting chain line.
I dont know a whole lot about dual stage bikes nor do i know alot about air shocks but this is the 2 cents of thought that went through my head after i saw those bikes.
1. why two shocks, air shocks at that. there are plenty of bikes on the market now that get 8-10" of travel on a single shock. and at NZ$ 2663.00 plus G.S.T. for the dual stage you could probably get one of the other comparable bikes. sounds like less crap to break and easier to service
2. 2 shocks could provide a ton of adjustability
I dont know a whole lot about dual stage bikes nor do i know alot about air shocks but this is the 2 cents of thought that went through my head after i saw those bikes.
1. why two shocks, air shocks at that. there are plenty of bikes on the market now that get 8-10" of travel on a single shock. and at NZ$ 2663.00 plus G.S.T. for the dual stage you could probably get one of the other comparable bikes. sounds like less crap to break and easier to service
2. 2 shocks could provide a ton of adjustability
well there team riders finsihed 1st and 2nd in the NZ nat series this year, so yeah pretty decent.BRM said:
i don't care how good it is. that bike looks dangerously gay.
using two shocks has nothing to do with travel, rather it has a variable axle path using a 6 bar linkage; with 6 bars you need two shocks. They obviously werent interested in making just another 8-10" travel rig...ridiculous said:
It's not the air, it's the lack of adjustability/low end rockshox quality that bothers me. These are DH rigs, I feel like only the best suspension is going to be good enough (ie cane creek, DT Swiss).
also, they've been really good about replying to my emails, but the first run of frames is mostly gone. I'll be anxious to see what kind of early run issues they bump into.
PS, the price comes out to about 1800 US, less shipping and import fees, which is a killer deal. I think it's about 1900 with a floater.
PS, the price comes out to about 1800 US, less shipping and import fees, which is a killer deal. I think it's about 1900 with a floater.
looks heavy ?! and whats with that stuff on rear-it look like it will brake if you hit rock or bottom the rear shock..-scary-xy9ine said:whoa - check out the new lahar! crazyness:
every year more and more complicated bikes are made..
now thats saying somethingdw said:
i too would like to see more of the drivetrain and how it works
good to see someone throwing something completely else in the ballpark
does lahar have a website? any chance of bumping that entirely unrelated topic to another thread?
the gouges on my e.13 guard and scratches on my bb shell tell me that I *definitely* shouldn't ride that bike. jeez, you case one rock and...Downhiller said:
I swear the rear looks like it would snap like a twig...
It's just a frame-mounted Rohloff, under all that carbon.RaID said:
A few years ago I was on a lift @ Mt. Snow with a guy who had one, IIRC it looked a little more boxy so it might have been an older model. He said it wasn't really any great shakes, but he liked to ride something different so he bought it.
I can't imagine riding something with a piece of linkage hanging down like that. Maybe I'm just a hack, but I'm sure I'd destroy it, unless you ran a ginormous bashguard.
I love these 2-stage bikes. Been looking into them for a while.The two shocks make a lot of sense for long travel application (8+").
2 pivots, 2 small shocks that still give you a good leverage ratio - less than 3:1.
My only concern would be that it looks like you have to bottom out the top shock in order to activate the lower shock. You'd end up having to service that upper shock quite frequently. Hrmmm.....
Anyone have any experience on these? The concept is to have a stable platform bike based on design, but on their Elite9 they use a Swinger 4-way w/SPV ?? Too many questions...
2 pivots, 2 small shocks that still give you a good leverage ratio - less than 3:1.
My only concern would be that it looks like you have to bottom out the top shock in order to activate the lower shock. You'd end up having to service that upper shock quite frequently. Hrmmm.....
Anyone have any experience on these? The concept is to have a stable platform bike based on design, but on their Elite9 they use a Swinger 4-way w/SPV ?? Too many questions...
I have never ridden a 2-stage but I have met a few guys that own them and they raved about the ride. The built up ones were bloody light too. Of course people loved proflex's in 1996 too...
I actually hadn't looked that the 2stage website before, got distracted by that Lahar, but I'm not sure they understand the purpose of having two shocks 
The 2 stages like they indicate are, IMO, stupid. You don't want the second shock setup super hard and the first shock setup super soft, so that they activate one after the other. You want them to work in harmony so that they provide that "area" of suspension travel instead of just a path. That allows them to react to impacts in all directions.
Either they don't understand the purpose or they are doing themselves a great disservice by not relating the genuine purpose to the people reading the website. Having the initial one soft is a great way to blow it up by constantly bottoming it - as was brought up.
By the way, what the hell does this mean:
If everyone riding these 2 stage bikes has them set up like the website wants you to, MHO is that they're raving about it just because it's new and different and everyone wants to like the different technology they just bought into.
The 2 stages like they indicate are, IMO, stupid. You don't want the second shock setup super hard and the first shock setup super soft, so that they activate one after the other. You want them to work in harmony so that they provide that "area" of suspension travel instead of just a path. That allows them to react to impacts in all directions.
Either they don't understand the purpose or they are doing themselves a great disservice by not relating the genuine purpose to the people reading the website. Having the initial one soft is a great way to blow it up by constantly bottoming it - as was brought up.
By the way, what the hell does this mean:
Are they implying that their suspension design actually has a stable platform built in?
If everyone riding these 2 stage bikes has them set up like the website wants you to, MHO is that they're raving about it just because it's new and different and everyone wants to like the different technology they just bought into.
i didn't quite understand that myself. switching from their "stable platform" to a travel area is as simple as changing air pressures though. I would probably set the bottom shock (rearward) with just a slightly higher air pressure and compression damping, so as to make it slightly more progressive.
interesting bike but i really wish i could try before you buy...
interesting bike but i really wish i could try before you buy...
i guess they are trying to say the 'primary linkage' (or the 4 bar portion) is design around good pedalling and the 'secondary' (the extra 2 bars to make six) when activated is for the bighit duties. Of course high single pivots do this with only one barbinary visions said:Are they implying that their suspension design actually has a stable platform built in?
What confuses me is when Cannondale had their six bar like these guys, everyone shat on it, the pros didnt like it and it disapeared. Bring it back years later and its the ****?
zedro said:
are you refering to the gemini or the fulcrum? The gemini used a low pivot and then a rearward attachment....the problem was that it would lock out under braking and pedaling, so where it would be most effective (steep chutes), it couldn't work (dragging brakes). I think the two-stage remedies this with a high roller and a floating linkage. Does it work? Ask BCD.
I've got to agree on one level though, I would rather see a vertical axle path and then a rearward axle path for maximum shock absorbtion. The problem is making it pedal.
Right. Exactly. So look at the "how it works" section of the website - why would they tell everyone that they should be setting up the two shocks to work in two stages (also, incidentally, the name of the company)?bcd said:
Do they not understand the concept, or are they just not relaying it to the public?
Yeah I have always found it interesting, that not once is an area of travel mentioned on their website. I have a feeling that they are so caught up in their "Stable Platform" that they don't realize any possible advantages from running similar pressures in both shocks to allow for the area of travel.binary visions said:
I'm still having a hard time seeing this "stable platform". If the bike is set up to have a specific axle-path like in the animated GIF on their website, then the bike will behave just like any low-medium pivot under pedaling. What happens in the second half of the travel is really irrelevant for pedaling, so I see no reason for two-stages. (as advertised by the company) There is quite a bit of information on the website, yet there is still no explanation for how this "stable platform" actually works...
Well, there would be an advantage of a pretty huge range of adjustability, since you can seperately tune the first and second parts of the travel with the full adjustability of the shock.WheelieMan said:
But I don't think they understand their own design, or if they do, they're choosing to market it in a different way - and a way that seems silly to me, not to mention being essentially incorrect.
True, there would be slightly better adjustability of travel, but even this is not mentioned anywhere in the 2-stage info (as far as I can tell).binary visions said:
Despite the strange marketing tactics, I still really like the bike. Sub 2k isn't bad for a bike of that caliber, and the two shocks would allow the rider to vary the wheelpath pretty dramatically. Pretty interesting.
Re: Lahar
The pictures shown there are of my bike.
I also have the model before this one DHV M8. I've raced the bike to two top fives in the NZ national series and 8th last season, although I was injured the whole season.
My last Lahar was raced for Lahar by 3 riders before I got it. In total it has raced 7 full seasons of pro elite level racing. Including world cup 04, canada 03. The swing arm that some wrote thinking will snap like a twig is the same one that has been on the bike since new. The old model has a alloy rocker(the M9 has carbon plates). This is the only part of the bike that has partly failed. It has two hairline cracks.
The mainframe has been raped for 7 seasons and is still competitive at the highest level.
The bike rides better than any other bike I've ever ridden and it doesnt break like every other bike I've owned.
The new one is awesome. I test rode the first of the new models and it was an improvement on an already wicked bike.
Those rockers raise when the suspension compresses, and they are higher than the old model, and i very rarely hit the hold rockers.
I cant wait to get the new one(pictured) fully built up. just need some minor bits and its a runner. For those of you who are interested you can buy a new framset as shown in the picture for $5500NZD. This gets you -Frame, rohloff, cranks/drivetrain, rear hub. A hand built carbon DH bike for $5500... not much. they rule
you can email me if you want any further details on lahar at whosdaddy2@gmail.com
peace out
Punter
The pictures shown there are of my bike.
I also have the model before this one DHV M8. I've raced the bike to two top fives in the NZ national series and 8th last season, although I was injured the whole season.
My last Lahar was raced for Lahar by 3 riders before I got it. In total it has raced 7 full seasons of pro elite level racing. Including world cup 04, canada 03. The swing arm that some wrote thinking will snap like a twig is the same one that has been on the bike since new. The old model has a alloy rocker(the M9 has carbon plates). This is the only part of the bike that has partly failed. It has two hairline cracks.
The mainframe has been raped for 7 seasons and is still competitive at the highest level.
The bike rides better than any other bike I've ever ridden and it doesnt break like every other bike I've owned.
The new one is awesome. I test rode the first of the new models and it was an improvement on an already wicked bike.
Those rockers raise when the suspension compresses, and they are higher than the old model, and i very rarely hit the hold rockers.
I cant wait to get the new one(pictured) fully built up. just need some minor bits and its a runner. For those of you who are interested you can buy a new framset as shown in the picture for $5500NZD. This gets you -Frame, rohloff, cranks/drivetrain, rear hub. A hand built carbon DH bike for $5500... not much. they rule
you can email me if you want any further details on lahar at whosdaddy2@gmail.com
peace out
Punter