clean and well executed, kudos!
24 inches of love
- Thread starter trust4130
- Start date
Thanks guys!
I was going to leave the FG as is other than color, but thought the option of a few gears would be nice especially after seeing the other FG with the Profile hub.
Running the cable internally turned out to be the best for alignment with the rear derailluer. Besides I didn't want any more braze-ons than necessary cluttering up the lines of the frame.
The drop outs were something I thought it needed after staring at the frame while working on the other details.
I'll post some more pics once I get it assembled.
GM
I was going to leave the FG as is other than color, but thought the option of a few gears would be nice especially after seeing the other FG with the Profile hub.
Running the cable internally turned out to be the best for alignment with the rear derailluer. Besides I didn't want any more braze-ons than necessary cluttering up the lines of the frame.
The drop outs were something I thought it needed after staring at the frame while working on the other details.
I'll post some more pics once I get it assembled.
GM
I may be interested in your wheels for my new build. What are they? What are you looking to get for them?
love the fall guy man, as soon as landon gets his act together and makes a 26" er, I plan to order one....
"...we dont claim the Fall Guy is for everyone. 26" wheel hard-cores will have to look elsewhere."
Hmmm, wonder where I read that?
Hmmm, wonder where I read that?
No i love everything about it besides the wheel size...Landon and I went back and fourth on a couple of emails about the 26'er and it seemed like a possibility...
Cmon Landon chime in...Dont make me start a 26 inches of love thread...
That might be a good idea though...
Thanks for the props and the great referell Bicyclist :biggrin:
There's something waiting for you at the powdercoater too
I think there is alot more than 24" wheels to love about the bike, like you said the 14mm hub, steep head angle, color selection, clean heat tube, and incredible clean graphics. I want one in baby blue bad.
GM: Thanks for posting those photos of your bike. It looks incredible; what else do you expect when a known hot-rodder/fabicator gets a new bike?
In regards to a 26" bike. It's certainly been debated at Tonic Fab Global Headquarters because we get a lot of questions/requests for such a bike. In fact it is usually the first question that people have about the bike after they realize it's a 24" bike.
As a business it makes sense to cater to what people want, so why isn't there a 26" Fall Guy?
2 reasons:
1) There are already some excellent 26"/disc brake bikes out there. I've ridden a few of them, like the BLK MRKT. That bike rides really well, has the features people want, is affordable, has a great team, is well made, and well distributed; basically all the bases are very much covered.
2)Unfortunately, there's very little money to be made building bikes like this. It's common knowledge that Carter Holland, owner of one of the only successful brands in this catagory still has a day job, so go figure. Tonic could sell 3 times the number of Fall Guys, and we still couldn't quit our day jobs either. The sad truth is that the actual sales figures of this type of bike (24 and 26") are very small compared to other catagories. The prices of these bike continues to go down, and as a small manufacturer, I really don't want to (or can) compete with S&M, and certainly not the Asian Bike Building Machine.
That said, you see a lot of smaller, cool BMX brands because (and this is my guess and only that) it's a market that is much larger to begin with, and because these brands are able to augment their earnings with t-shirts/videos/stems/sprockets. We don't have this.
I wasn't aware of a bike like the Fall Guy when we where working on it; infact, outside of my work at a large contract frame manufacturer, I knew very little about this market at all. Since then, I've learned a lot about this market, and have come to some conclusions about what a small, domestic manufacturer should concentrate on. Up to this point we've concentrated on getting our shop and tooling in order, getting used to doing this sort of business and producing a bike that is unique and we are passionate about. The next phase is growing the business, and getting deeper into a market which S&M serves very well doesn't feel like the right direction.
It's very flattering that people want to buy a bike from Tonic Fab that we don't produce, and we've certainly thought very hard about. I'm just afraid the effort to outcome to passion ratio doesn't make this the most attractive option for us. We will have a 26" bike, but it's not going to compete with Black Market, or any hardtail.
Even after riding some very good 26" bikes (including a new Atomlab at Interbike), my Fall Guy still my first choice. Shorter chainstays, and a little snappier feeling from the smaller wheels simply feels better to me. As do the rest of the package; V-Brakes and BMX hub included. I know the smaller wheels aren't fashionable or respected, but F-it.
In regards to a 26" bike. It's certainly been debated at Tonic Fab Global Headquarters because we get a lot of questions/requests for such a bike. In fact it is usually the first question that people have about the bike after they realize it's a 24" bike.
As a business it makes sense to cater to what people want, so why isn't there a 26" Fall Guy?
2 reasons:
1) There are already some excellent 26"/disc brake bikes out there. I've ridden a few of them, like the BLK MRKT. That bike rides really well, has the features people want, is affordable, has a great team, is well made, and well distributed; basically all the bases are very much covered.
2)Unfortunately, there's very little money to be made building bikes like this. It's common knowledge that Carter Holland, owner of one of the only successful brands in this catagory still has a day job, so go figure. Tonic could sell 3 times the number of Fall Guys, and we still couldn't quit our day jobs either. The sad truth is that the actual sales figures of this type of bike (24 and 26") are very small compared to other catagories. The prices of these bike continues to go down, and as a small manufacturer, I really don't want to (or can) compete with S&M, and certainly not the Asian Bike Building Machine.
That said, you see a lot of smaller, cool BMX brands because (and this is my guess and only that) it's a market that is much larger to begin with, and because these brands are able to augment their earnings with t-shirts/videos/stems/sprockets. We don't have this.
I wasn't aware of a bike like the Fall Guy when we where working on it; infact, outside of my work at a large contract frame manufacturer, I knew very little about this market at all. Since then, I've learned a lot about this market, and have come to some conclusions about what a small, domestic manufacturer should concentrate on. Up to this point we've concentrated on getting our shop and tooling in order, getting used to doing this sort of business and producing a bike that is unique and we are passionate about. The next phase is growing the business, and getting deeper into a market which S&M serves very well doesn't feel like the right direction.
It's very flattering that people want to buy a bike from Tonic Fab that we don't produce, and we've certainly thought very hard about. I'm just afraid the effort to outcome to passion ratio doesn't make this the most attractive option for us. We will have a 26" bike, but it's not going to compete with Black Market, or any hardtail.
Even after riding some very good 26" bikes (including a new Atomlab at Interbike), my Fall Guy still my first choice. Shorter chainstays, and a little snappier feeling from the smaller wheels simply feels better to me. As do the rest of the package; V-Brakes and BMX hub included. I know the smaller wheels aren't fashionable or respected, but F-it.
There aren't many surprises left. I don't recall much at Interbike I hadn't already gotten a glimpse of.
It's not that I think Tonic Fab is sitting on the Next Big Thing, it's just that it's a little more fun and useful to introduce a bike when it's sorted and ready to sell.
It's not that I think Tonic Fab is sitting on the Next Big Thing, it's just that it's a little more fun and useful to introduce a bike when it's sorted and ready to sell.
just my opinion, but when you get a tonic or USB set up right and ride it, you prolly wouldn't wan't a 26er for the same application after that. My USB has totally grown on me and I don't forsee changing it anytime soon...and that's saying a lot since I'm the biggest bike whore on the planet 
A little off topic here, being that i'm delving into a completely different type of riding, but seeing as this has turned into a thread mainly focused on tonic fab i thought i'd throw this question out here.
I saw on your site the addition of a cyclocross bike, i believe you had named it the BCX?
When will we be able to see some more info on this bike, specifically geometry, price, and what the deal is with that little spring or whatever on the rear end?
After riding a Tonic I could never go back to 26" wheels for dirt/street/park. The fall guy is just too good.
I dig the nemesis street fighter, and DM as well.
Not that I'm bothered by people riding 26" for this area of our sport, there are diffinately real nice options.
It seems the media, and the opinions of a few outspoken individuals has brought a black Cloud over 24" wheels. Don't knock it until you try it. Look at the purpose the bike is intended for, and then decided if it's worthwhile.
I dig the nemesis street fighter, and DM as well.
Not that I'm bothered by people riding 26" for this area of our sport, there are diffinately real nice options.
It seems the media, and the opinions of a few outspoken individuals has brought a black Cloud over 24" wheels. Don't knock it until you try it. Look at the purpose the bike is intended for, and then decided if it's worthwhile.
I just want be sure i dont loose my "essence" in decline's eyes...
Your more than welcome to an extended test ride of my personal bike while at RAYS, if you give it a shot you might forget about "essence" what Decline magazine says about bikes and even stop using the word combination "Urban Riding".
www.unionstreetbikes.com
hey lee, think i can maybe try out a molly?i may be going to rays at the end of this month parents pending
yeah bunch of crap in my eyes...I just like to keep my wheels consistent and want to avoid building an overgrown bmx bike...
I am at rays all the time, ill def check one out...on a DOC now.
hey landon i saw the bcx cross bike at the yakima booth in vegas. really good stuff man. i believe the small oval spring gives about a 1/4 in of travel right? i recently bought a new version of the fall guy from rob in ohio who originally bought it from ride-this.com. so excited to get this frame. will follow up with pics.
Grom-Dom you do know that Ray's is not open during weekends until Nov 4th, right? Your more than welcome to take it for a spin..
As for Declines stance everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how right or wrong it may be.
As for Declines stance everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how right or wrong it may be.
I'm not bothered by predjudice against 24's in the montain bike media at all. I've had a couple kids mention to me that they'd catch some heat from their friends for riding 24's as opposed to 26's. This hardcore 26" culture is just something I've never really been exposed to.
I was a little about nervous about clumsily riding a "mountain bike" with a bunch of really good BMX pros (Sher, Cleveland, Little Jeff, Hucke, Inman, Vince Croft...) last winter at the indoor park, but that turned out to be a non-issue. Turns out that doing your own thing, staying out of other people's way, and having a pump in your car is all that matters to that crowd. Pretty fair in my book.
Hopefully they'll be a better explaination of the cross bike on our website before too long. The short story is that the Titanium tube functions as a spring which enables the bike to have about a 1/4" of "travel" with-out any maintainence or weight penalties. And it looks pretty neat.
That bike also has a few neat details that set it apart from typical "custom" frames. Things like custom drop-outs, internally machined HT (very light), aluminum seat tube insert (easy on carbon posts), and excellent chainring/tire clearance with short chainstays and no dent or bends are things we are proud of. The production bikes will have a couple more features (gimics to some) that will additionally set it appart from the crowd.
I was a little about nervous about clumsily riding a "mountain bike" with a bunch of really good BMX pros (Sher, Cleveland, Little Jeff, Hucke, Inman, Vince Croft...) last winter at the indoor park, but that turned out to be a non-issue. Turns out that doing your own thing, staying out of other people's way, and having a pump in your car is all that matters to that crowd. Pretty fair in my book.
Hopefully they'll be a better explaination of the cross bike on our website before too long. The short story is that the Titanium tube functions as a spring which enables the bike to have about a 1/4" of "travel" with-out any maintainence or weight penalties. And it looks pretty neat.
That bike also has a few neat details that set it apart from typical "custom" frames. Things like custom drop-outs, internally machined HT (very light), aluminum seat tube insert (easy on carbon posts), and excellent chainring/tire clearance with short chainstays and no dent or bends are things we are proud of. The production bikes will have a couple more features (gimics to some) that will additionally set it appart from the crowd.
To be honest, I wouldn't call my USB a mtn bike, so in a sense agree w/ Decline. Beside the frame, fork and bars - I could have bought the rest of the pieces from Dan's Comp (or any another BMX shop). If I only had one bike and wanted to ride some woods, stunts, or around town more, I would definitely go 26" rig (a bike like the Sinister Ridge or Evil Sovereign and a Rock Shox Pike for example). But for park and trails the 24" wheels work best - more flickable, stronger, rim brakes. Check out how low some of these 26"er build are - the seats are underneath the top of the rim.
ManhattenPrjkt - I can see where you are coming from but what are you going to ride w/ this new bike? If it will be set up for street, park, and DJ's - I would at least take a test ride from Lee. I had a blast at Ray's last season on my USB - you could ride that whole place on one but it really shines on the boxes, park area, pump track, and hip jump. I had my 26er as well and that stayed in the car the 2nd day. Judging by your lineup a USB or Tonic 24"er would be a great addition.
ManhattenPrjkt - I can see where you are coming from but what are you going to ride w/ this new bike? If it will be set up for street, park, and DJ's - I would at least take a test ride from Lee. I had a blast at Ray's last season on my USB - you could ride that whole place on one but it really shines on the boxes, park area, pump track, and hip jump. I had my 26er as well and that stayed in the car the 2nd day. Judging by your lineup a USB or Tonic 24"er would be a great addition.
Well i have to say im a definately a mountain biker with some bmx influence not vice versa, my stable now includes a Soveirgn as my xc/trail bike, bottlerocket for dh/fr stuff, and a doc that i am busy "redoing" as a park/rays/dj bike.
I really want to stick with 26" wheels and 2 brakes but plan on going singlespeed...I know it sounds goofy but it works for me. Anyway the DOC just isnt doing it for me because i have 2 other bikes for trail purposes...I would love to have a steep head angle clean design bike like the fall guy in a 26"er...I like the Mob but want to run a Chris King headset...Alot of these bikes become similar when it comes to angles,so what your really need to be concerned with is the craftmanship so that is why i really like the fall guy. Landon does the best job with graphics i have seen in the industry and the baby blue is a perfect paint job (see baby blue w/ all black part
)...I need to do some looking for now im riding the doc til i make a decision.
I saw the Sov and BottleRocket in your sig - that's a great line up. I have been thinking of getting a BR for next year - I think it would fit my style of riding nicely.Well i have to say im a definately a mountain biker with some bmx influence not vice versa, my stable now includes a Soveirgn as my xc/trail bike, bottlerocket for dh/fr stuff, and a doc that i am busy "redoing" as a park/rays/dj bike.
I really want to stick with 26" wheels and 2 brakes but plan on going singlespeed...I know it sounds goofy but it works for me. Anyway the DOC just isnt doing it for me because i have 2 other bikes for trail purposes...I would love to have a steep head angle clean design bike like the fall guy in a 26"er...I like the Mob but want to run a Chris King headset...Alot of these bikes become similar when it comes to angles,so what your really need to be concerned with is the craftmanship so that is why i really like the fall guy. Landon does the best job with graphics i have scene in the industry and the baby blue is a perfect paint job (see baby blue w/ all black part
I need to do some looking for now im riding the doc til i make a decision.
The DOC is a cool frame and it will work well for Ray's/DJ/Park. The only thing I didn't like on that bike is that slacker HT as you know. Running a fork with a short A-C height will help. I can see what you mean w/ the CK headset - I prefer the normal headset setup vs. internal myself as well. If you are going to be riding Ray's at all this winter, I'm sure you'll be able to test ride a bunch of different bikes. I went at the end of the season last year and there was a fair amount of brands getting ridden. I can only imagine how many people will be there this year on the weekends.
And yes, baby blue is one of the best colors for a bike. I was just thinking of getting my USB powdered that color this winter.
Stoked - you got a fallguy - SICK!!! now i'm not the only one 
you're gonna LOVE it, guaranteed. cant wait to see yours in person, so far my setup is the only one i've seen.
Don - i just got a bottlerocket, its my first fully ever, and i've only had 3 DH days on it - but man, so far i'm loving it. nice and light @ 36.5 lbs setup with a dhx 5 and 36r, and it will be even a bit lighter, quick to steer, and quick to hop/pop off any root, rock - anything. its like a fallguy on crack!
you're gonna LOVE it, guaranteed. cant wait to see yours in person, so far my setup is the only one i've seen. Don - i just got a bottlerocket, its my first fully ever, and i've only had 3 DH days on it - but man, so far i'm loving it. nice and light @ 36.5 lbs setup with a dhx 5 and 36r, and it will be even a bit lighter, quick to steer, and quick to hop/pop off any root, rock - anything. its like a fallguy on crack!
Nice to here the good words on the BottleRocket, Vas. IIRC you got a small. I can't decide if I would need a large or medium. The Transistion site says I should go medium being 6'. But I would like to use the bike for some trailriding as well. Sounds like you have been having a blast at Diablo with it. Fallguy on crack sounds sick!
Ok, so its soundin pretty fricking sweet. Any word yet on when it will be available to the public?
and i know its probly a little early and you may not want to say till you work out when it will be ready to go into production, but any idea on a general price range?
yeah man i cant wait. it's in the color everyones raving about, baby blue. im not really into the color myself so ill be spraying sections another color. the color reminds me of a baby showerStoked - you got a fallguy - SICK!!! now i'm not the only one
Cross bike is still a little ways off. Unfortunately its going to be Marchish.
Another season of testing, the addition of a couple more features. I'm confident this bike will be very sweet.
The 24/26 debate doesn't bother me because it's not something anyone even a half step out of the tiny circle of people "concerned" about this even notice. Not to mention a complete non-issue outside of the US. Anyone else notice the Lacondeguys rode 24's at Crankworx? As a manufacturer of a 24 specifc bike, I don't consider this to be any sort of victory..it's just what those kids what to ride. Obviously anything at crankworx could have been ridden on a 24's, and a couple of high profile riders did it. So what?
I also consider my bike a BMX bike, or at least the riding I do is BMX. But that's more out of habit, or maybe because saying I'm going "mountain biking" when I ride a park or trails doesn't sound right to me. When I ride XC, or go to whistler, that's definately "mountain biking" to me. Ulitmately, there's so much overlap of skills and fun that to me, it's all just riding.
Something I'd like to propose to IMBA is to recognize park and dirt jumps as a legit form of mountain biking. The fact is, kids are buying mountain bikes to ride this stuff, and as an industry, BMX hasn't done a very good job of advocacy. Imagine if IMBA was advocating for dirt jump parks? Who knows where that could go. The fact is, very few people live anywhere near actual mountains, especially if you are talking about resort style riding. A vacant lot however, can accomdate something that scores of people can ride, and legitimately prepare themselves for resort riding, or anything. I know IMBA has done a lot to legitmize free-ride trails. Personally, I couldn't imagine really learning how to jump on the free-ride stuff I've seen. For starters, a bike with some travel really helps ride that stuff. But those bikes are expensive, and those places are usually far from where people live. Meaning kids can't participate, and then it's videogame time if they aren't hip to BMX. On the otherhand, a good bike park, with progressive lines...that's where people can go and actually learn something. Kids and adults.
Something that needs to happen is to eliminate this huge distinction between BMX and Mountain Biking. I just got the new Ride, and Fudger tears into mountain bikes in the letters section, again. In his defense, the letter was pretty silly, but it's part of his agenda to print crap, and tear into it. That guy needs to wake-up to the idea that riding a different type of bike doesn't justify completely dismissing a person. This is just being an adult.
I was kind of surprised that mountain bikes weren't mentioned in any of the Red Bull elevation coverage I read. Hard to believe someone didn't rent a bike, try A-line, and dig it. I was waiting for a novelty photo of Inman, or Bohan on a rental bike destroying something. It's just silly to go to Whistler and not ride that mountain. What's the harm to BMX if a kid learns that there's a bigger version of his bike that he can blast down a mountain on?
Thoughts?
Another season of testing, the addition of a couple more features. I'm confident this bike will be very sweet.
The 24/26 debate doesn't bother me because it's not something anyone even a half step out of the tiny circle of people "concerned" about this even notice. Not to mention a complete non-issue outside of the US. Anyone else notice the Lacondeguys rode 24's at Crankworx? As a manufacturer of a 24 specifc bike, I don't consider this to be any sort of victory..it's just what those kids what to ride. Obviously anything at crankworx could have been ridden on a 24's, and a couple of high profile riders did it. So what?
I also consider my bike a BMX bike, or at least the riding I do is BMX. But that's more out of habit, or maybe because saying I'm going "mountain biking" when I ride a park or trails doesn't sound right to me. When I ride XC, or go to whistler, that's definately "mountain biking" to me. Ulitmately, there's so much overlap of skills and fun that to me, it's all just riding.
Something I'd like to propose to IMBA is to recognize park and dirt jumps as a legit form of mountain biking. The fact is, kids are buying mountain bikes to ride this stuff, and as an industry, BMX hasn't done a very good job of advocacy. Imagine if IMBA was advocating for dirt jump parks? Who knows where that could go. The fact is, very few people live anywhere near actual mountains, especially if you are talking about resort style riding. A vacant lot however, can accomdate something that scores of people can ride, and legitimately prepare themselves for resort riding, or anything. I know IMBA has done a lot to legitmize free-ride trails. Personally, I couldn't imagine really learning how to jump on the free-ride stuff I've seen. For starters, a bike with some travel really helps ride that stuff. But those bikes are expensive, and those places are usually far from where people live. Meaning kids can't participate, and then it's videogame time if they aren't hip to BMX. On the otherhand, a good bike park, with progressive lines...that's where people can go and actually learn something. Kids and adults.
Something that needs to happen is to eliminate this huge distinction between BMX and Mountain Biking. I just got the new Ride, and Fudger tears into mountain bikes in the letters section, again. In his defense, the letter was pretty silly, but it's part of his agenda to print crap, and tear into it. That guy needs to wake-up to the idea that riding a different type of bike doesn't justify completely dismissing a person. This is just being an adult.
I was kind of surprised that mountain bikes weren't mentioned in any of the Red Bull elevation coverage I read. Hard to believe someone didn't rent a bike, try A-line, and dig it. I was waiting for a novelty photo of Inman, or Bohan on a rental bike destroying something. It's just silly to go to Whistler and not ride that mountain. What's the harm to BMX if a kid learns that there's a bigger version of his bike that he can blast down a mountain on?
Thoughts?
Question, I'm looking at an on-one gimp from a seller here, and the parts spec looks pretty sick except for one thing. A 1999 Marzocchi Z.1 qr20 fork. The thing looks pretty dated, and is not lowered any at all, making the front end of the bike look hella high.
Just wondering if you think it be worth it to bring the guy down on the price a little to replace that fork, or if it be worth keeping if I could lower it and make it semi useable.
Figured I'd throw in this picture
Just wondering if you think it be worth it to bring the guy down on the price a little to replace that fork, or if it be worth keeping if I could lower it and make it semi useable.
Figured I'd throw in this picture