[Superdeft]

Yep, a prophet w/o a lefty, stock.
The frame itself is a great design, and the complete build specs not bad for 2005, but the leftys really held them back because most (including myself) aren't fans of the concept or propriotary parts.

For 2006 they're stepping it up and 12mm thru-axle prophets like Gracia's 4x frame with more practical parts. The MX1 comes with X.0 bits, Fox DHX Air 5.0, 36 (rc2 I imagine), and other high-end bling. This'll probably be too expensive for most people. Luckily for us mere mortals, the MX2 comes with a pike and some other fox shock, and is probably 2500 less. It looks the MX2 will be the bike for true riders on reasonable budgets, and if the 2005 1000 model is any clue, it'll have a build to suit our type of riding. I'm excited to see the full specs.

 

[dexterq20]

 

[theFOOT]

i never actually took a look at the 05's because of the lefty, but with the 36, ohh man thats a sweet bike!

 

[S.K.C.]

...thank God.

12mm thru axle and NO lefty... I never liked those things.

 

[Zman]

its funny that most people that dont like the lefty's havent ridden them. they are the stiffest fork in their class, and damn light at that. the carbon fork that comes on the 4x this year is 4 lbs for a coil. i mean come on how light and stiff does it need to be. i have ridden fox vanillas and marz qr20. the lefty is stiffer and just as plush. also as strong. i have beaten the living crap out of mine and it still runs fine, no damage at all. how many broken/bent leftys have you seen?

 

[speedster]

I really liked the 4X Prophet. A bike with that much travel and at that weight would rip. I would run a Lefty, no problem. They are very light and stiff for what you get, better than many other forks out there.

 

[BussaFrame]

I run a custom built 4X with no lefty. Let it be known I am going to a lefty, it's light and stiff. Much nicer than all my manitou stuff. Plus the standover won't be super high.

 

[dexterq20]

Let it be known I am going to a lefty, it's light and stiff. Much nicer than all my manitou stuff.

Just remember that the high end Lefties (Leftys?) all use Manitou internals.

 

[Sherpa]

Just remember that the high end Lefties (Leftys?) all use Manitou internals.

Except the ones with Fox internals.

 

[frorider]

Except the ones with Fox internals.

...which are the short-travel, XC oriented Lefty forks that aren't relevant to this conversation. the long travel, higher end lefties use the manitou internals.

as an engineer, i try to make decisions based on actual function not 'how it looks', and i tried therefore to talk myself into liking the lefty. it does offer a killer combination of low weight, good stiffness, and strength. not to mention mud clearance.

however my bikes are often transported in my truck under a camper shell, and I am ALWAYS removing the front wheel on a regular basis. so I don't have a lefty on my xc bike, since it's a pain in the azz to be messin with the disk brake caliper every time.

too bad there's not a v-brake version of the lefty.


[that's joke. think about it.]

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I WILL BUY THE ABOVE BIKE!

 

[Rik]

[that's joke. think about it.]

If a company is willing to go well out of their way to make a one legged fork... I mean, a knife, why wouldn't they make a giant sliding brace contraption to mount the brake on? It's all about making a simple problem complex.

 

[BadFastard]

never been a fan of the Prophet because it's a single pivot. and it's soo long.

As to the lefties: if they'd be affordable aftermarket, and had normal steerers i'd definately ride one.
TPC+ damping is still unbeaten to me, it's lighter and stiffer than any other fork out there. And it looks eh, left of center ;-)

 

[peter6061]

I currently spend most of my ride time on an '05 Prophet 2000 when I'm not SS. The bike is sweet and comes in at about 29 pounds. The only thing I would change would adding a 12mm thru in the back as the bike does tend to be a little flexy sometimes. for '06

My lefty is sweet and rides better than any marzocchi, fox, or manitou I've ridden at about that travel. I wondered if C-Dale might look into a little mini-gracia with a progressive linkage to take some of the flex out as well.

And as for the manitou internals, it wasn't the internals I saw a problem with on recent manitous, so it's all good.

Oh, and to bring this back to topic, the bike looks sweet and I'd love to try one out.

 

[BussaFrame]

Just remember that the high end Lefties (Leftys?) all use Manitou internals.

I have no problem with all of the internals of my manitou stuff. General weight and the flex of my manitou forks is what will make me go to a lefty. Who wants a fork that leaks oil from the factory.

And yes I know that all the Lefty Max's 140's use manitou internals.

 

[peter6061]

Who wants a fork that leaks oil from the factory.

How about more specifically, leaks oil out of the disc brake post mount?

 

[BussaFrame]

Exactally.

 

[blt2ride]

It's about time! The Lefty was such an outdated fork, Cdale had to know that it was hurting sales...

 

[biker3]

It's about time! The Lefty was such an outdated fork, Cdale had to know that it was hurting sales...

Outdated? Could you please explain? I bet your another one of these anti-lefty people who have never actually ridden one?

 

[rigidhack]

I dunno, I like the lefty. Every time I've tried one it has felt quite good.

My theory is that mountainbiking is an adrenaline based sport. Some people need to throw themselves off of cliffs to get it going; others drop curbs. The Lefty fits into the equasion precisely by being sketchy looking. Since it looks so skinny, it makes any stunt-oriented riding that much more adrenaline producing, while at the same time saving your butt by doing its job. Think about it - a 4 foot drop on a rigid bike with 1.9" tires is fairly extreme, where the same drop on a Scream with a Monster may as well be a stick in the trail. Riding a Lefty is like adding a couple of feet to every drop/stunt you do in terms of the sheer quantity of adrenaline produced (the pucker factor).

...Unless you regularly post on pinkbike in which case the lefty automatically triples the height of any drop, especially to flat.


At any rate, the bike looks great, both with the Lefty and without it. Cannondale has been doing some really cool things over the past couple of years.

 

[Sherpa]

I dunno, I like the lefty. Every time I've tried one it has felt quite good.

My theory is that mountainbiking is an adrenaline based sport. Some people need to throw themselves off of cliffs to get it going; others drop curbs. The Lefty fits into the equasion precisely by being sketchy looking. Since it looks so skinny, it makes any stunt-oriented riding that much more adrenaline producing, while at the same time saving your butt by doing its job. Think about it - a 4 foot drop on a rigid bike with 1.9" tires is fairly extreme, where the same drop on a Scream with a Monster may as well be a stick in the trail. Riding a Lefty is like adding a couple of feet to every drop/stunt you do in terms of the sheer quantity of adrenaline produced (the pucker factor).

...Unless you regularly post on pinkbike in which case the lefty automatically triples the height of any drop, especially to flat.


At any rate, the bike looks great, both with the Lefty and without it. Cannondale has been doing some really cool things over the past couple of years.

Worst theory ever

 

[Bicyclist]

Wow. That bike looks sweet. One question I do have about Lefty forks is if they break in well. I have only ridden one (it was brand new) and it was really sticky. Does that stay.

 

[sanjuro]

From strictly a sales standpoint, a bike with a Lefty is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. Even though you can put a different fork on a Prophet or Scapel, a Lefty has little resale value because only C/Dales (and some custom builders, like Seven) can use one.

From selling C/Dales, I know some people do not like the look of the Lefty, and there is little I can say to change their minds. Heath Sherratt found a picture of Cedric casing a backflip during a 4X race, and I show it to everyone who questions a Lefty. The fork is totally compressed from his body weight going over the bars, but the wheel has not deflected even a MM.

From a more technical standpoint, I would buy a Lefty over a Manitou anytime. Even though they might use the same internals, the fork construction on a Lefty is way superior to Manitou (like C/Dale frames are better than most companies). Things like needle bearings to the wider stanction design makes for a much better fork, now and in the long run.

The bottom line: this year I have seen a host of Manitou problems on 2 of their lines (Stance and Minute), and I have not seen a problem with Leftys and Headshoks besides normal rebuilds.

As for switching to the Fox 36: it was obviously a sales move more than a technical deficiency. While the new Fox 36VAN (which I assume is the fork on the MX1, not the 36 Talas) is superior to the Lefty, at least in terms of travel and arguably plushness, I think is fitting in with the change in C/Dale corporate culture. For example, the new road bike, the Synapse, is made in Taiwan, which is the first frame constructed outside America.

Whether you agree with their policy change or not, the new management is bowing to sales pressure to put out competitive products at competitive prices. Specifically with the Lefty and the 36, possibly the 36 is way better fork, but using it should make the MX1 more marketable. I rather have a Lefty over a Pike on the MX2, but it might be a sales thing or a fork fit issue.

 

[dexterq20]

...the new road bike, the Synapse, is made in Taiwan...

Wha wha what?!?!

 

[sanjuro]

Wha wha what?!?!

What are you doing in SLO?!?!?!? Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/news/04-14

BTW, Dan is back from Davis and started working at the shop again.

 

[dexterq20]

What are you doing in SLO?!?!?!?

I'm in Santa Barbara, whitey. Get it right.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Fat: no.
Drunk: sometimes.
Stupid: only when I'm drunk.

BTW, Dan is back from Davis and started working at the shop again.

I'ma be in town this weekend, so lemme know when (if?) you're working, and I'll stop in and bother you guys.

 

[sanjuro]

I'm in Santa Barbara, whitey. Get it right.

Fat: no.
Drunk: sometimes.
Stupid: only when I'm drunk.

I'ma be in town this weekend, so lemme know when (if?) you're working, and I'll stop in and bother you guys.

I am doing a N*/D'ville run this weekend, so maybe next time....

And thanks for the correction. Good to hear from you.

 

[Superdeft]

Hi everyone. The info I got was from a german web site, so these may the euro models (the US versions will probably differ slightly)

In any case, looks cool, but I hate the idea of waiting a whole year...

 

[sanjuro]

The only difference I know of between European and American models is the Lefty for the Scapel still uses ELO, the electronic lockout, and I think there is travel adjustment too, from 80mm to a whopping 100mm.

 

[Jm_]

The frame itself is a great design

Naw, that style of frame suffers from flex and needs a swing link. No amount of "beefy tubes" can make up for the fact that the rear wheel and triangle are a huge lever that can seriously torque the pivot-mast, causing the rear shock to act as a frame member, which shortens the life of the shock.

The superlight, heckler, haro ex, weyless, etc, all these frames have the same basic design, and same basic shortcomming. No matter how big they make the main pivot or tubes, it doesn't make up for the fact that the rear end can torque that pivot-mast.

 

[rpk1988]

Why are people hating on Lefty's so much. You havent even ridden one. I wanted a double crown fork, but the Lefty is what came on my Prophet. And hell, am I glad I kept it. This fork is awesome. And it is super rebuildable. That Prophet with the 36 does look sweet, but is it stiff, light, have no deflection, and look so bad ass. I dont think so. Also you loose some handling characteristics too.

 

[James]

For example, the new road bike, the Synapse, is made in Taiwan, which is the first frame constructed outside America.

A little birdy tells me Ch-Ch-Ch-China, not Taiwan. Notice how they never say exactly what country whenever they mention it. That = not Taiwan. They'd brag about it if it were Taiwan. Interesting, as Taiwan is known for it's high-end carbon construction, and China is more the entry-level kinda stuff. Should be a pretty cool bike though. I like how they originally called their stays "P.A.V.E." until a little company called Specialized came calling. S.A.V.E. is the name now.
Anyway, I dig that new bike, simple is the keyword for sure. Probably make a pretty kick-ass 24 hour rig.
I haven't really ridden a Lefty for much time at all, but I would like to try it out. I dig that they're using the Fox and SPV internals too. Can't beat 'em, join 'em.

JJames

 

[sanjuro]

A little birdy tells me Ch-Ch-Ch-China, not Taiwan. Notice how they never say exactly what country whenever they mention it. That = not Taiwan. They'd brag about it if it were Taiwan. Interesting, as Taiwan is known for it's high-end carbon construction, and China is more the entry-level kinda stuff. Should be a pretty cool bike though. I like how they originally called their stays "P.A.V.E." until a little company called Specialized came calling. S.A.V.E. is the name now.
Anyway, I dig that new bike, simple is the keyword for sure. Probably make a pretty kick-ass 24 hour rig.
I haven't really ridden a Lefty for much time at all, but I would like to try it out. I dig that they're using the Fox and SPV internals too. Can't beat 'em, join 'em.

JJames

Good point about Far East no longer means Taiwan. But Taiwan is the place for high end carbon, even over some US manufacturers, so I still like to think C/Dale is maintaining their standards, even if someone else is building thier product.

 

[James]

Good point about Far East no longer means Taiwan. But Taiwan is the place for high end carbon, even over some US manufacturers, so I still like to think C/Dale is maintaining their standards, even if someone else is building thier product.

Oh yeah, some of the most advanced carbon labs in the world are in Taiwan. The biggest non-aerospace, non-goverment lab is Giant's carbon setup over there. Amazing what you can do with loose enviromental controls and super-cheap labor...
But seriously though, I'm pretty sure that it's being made in China, not that there's anything wrong with that...

JJames

 

[sanjuro]

Naw, that style of frame suffers from flex and needs a swing link. No amount of "beefy tubes" can make up for the fact that the rear wheel and triangle are a huge lever that can seriously torque the pivot-mast, causing the rear shock to act as a frame member, which shortens the life of the shock.

The superlight, heckler, haro ex, weyless, etc, all these frames have the same basic design, and same basic shortcomming. No matter how big they make the main pivot or tubes, it doesn't make up for the fact that the rear end can torque that pivot-mast.

Uh, wouldn't frame flex come from, lets say, the moving parts? And more moving parts the flexier the frame? And the smaller the moving parts the flexier as well?

So what full suspension design has the fewest moving parts? (single pivot) Which design has the biggest swing arms? The biggest pivot bearings? (single pivot)

You also mention the shock used as a frame member in a single pivot design. The shock is also one of the "bars" in a 4-bar design. While there might be more stress on the shock than a 4 bar design, I have not heard of greater shock wear on single pivots.

Finally, a Haro swingarm will not be as stiff as one made by C/Dale, as a Superlight will seem whippy compared to a Prophet. And there are plenty of flaws in the single-pivot design. But stiffness is not one of them.

 

[sanjuro]

Oh yeah, some of the most advanced carbon labs in the world are in Taiwan. The biggest non-aerospace, non-goverment lab is Giant's carbon setup over there. Amazing what you can do with loose enviromental controls and super-cheap labor...
But seriously though, I'm pretty sure that it's being made in China, not that there's anything wrong with that...

JJames

Hey, I am waiting for Chinese stem cell technology to keep me young forever...

 

[peter6061]

And there are plenty of flaws in the single-pivot design. But stiffness is not one of them.

Having ridden about every design out there, I'm going to have to say that single pivot designs have always felt the most flexy. I currently am riding a Prophet, and love it, but the back end does move around a little. If you want a stiffer ride, but want to stay single pivot for simplicity, you need a swing link. Look at Foes. All of their frames are single pivot, but the linkage allows the upper portion to remain in-line with the frame all but eliminating flex. You don't need as big a pivot, and the shock does not take side loads as it does with a single pivot.

The prophet could benefit from this, but it would add weight to a bike that most people would not want. I love mine, and would buy another.

 

[dw]

Ive visited an unbelievably trick carbon builder in China. Plenty of top end carbon bike parts with popular high end names being built there. Millions of tennis rackets.

dw

 

[Banshee Rider]

Man, i thought this site was full of knowledgable advice from people with first hand experience? Half the sh*t im reading in this thread is regurgitated trash. How many of you have ridden the new leftys to base an opinion on? "i'd take the fox over the lefty, much more reliable!!!" Give me a break. You've got a tried and tested design, its stiffer than any SC on the market, its lighter than most as well, and uses internals/technology from a suspension company 1/2 of you ride. What more do you want? The "propietary" talk is crap, i'll throw shimano into the equation and then we can start arguing the point.

 

[rpk1988]

To tell you the truth, I actually like SRAM better then Shimano now. I have an X-9 on my Prophet and it has been awesome. I think I might upgrade to an X-0 at some point.

Good point on the Lefty though. Most of the people think its crap because of past experiences with it. I love it. And I have seen one guy run a Lefty on his Turner with an 1 1/8 headtube and it was still stiff as hell. And even airline company's rely on single sided designs for landing gear because it is light and stiff.