[ianjenn]

So I am building up a 6" bike this will be personal and also a review bike. I just ordered Derby Hoops and am not sure what tires will give a good profile when mounted to such a wide rim. Am leaning Towards Conti, Geax, Mavic or Butchers.

The terrain is 90% rock around here I am 208LBS Cat 2 but there will be faster Pros testing the bike. Any idea on rounded tires with decent sidewall that don't weigh 1200 GRAMS.....

Or what have people been mounted to wide rims as far as tires go?

THANKS

 

[wydopen]

So I am building up a 6" bike this will be personal and also a review bike. I just ordered Derby Hoops and am not sure what tires will give a good profile when mounted to such a wide rim. Am leaning Towards Conti, Geax, Mavic or Butchers.

The terrain is 90% rock around here I am 208LBS Cat 2 but there will be faster Pros testing the bike. Any idea on rounded tires with decent sidewall that don't weigh 1200 GRAMS.....

Or what have people been mounted to wide rims as far as tires go?

THANKS

funny I just posted something about this in another thread..I have the 35mm rims and have been running a 2.4 HR2...its not the roundest tire by any means but it works well enough especially if you get the psi dropped...I just swapped to a 2.3 DHF and im already pulling it off...it ends up really square..I think tire manufactures are going to have to change things up in order to maximize the advantages of the wider rims...right now I think the only tires that work well with wide rims is by accident not design...

I think a trail king would be ok its fairly round although I dont like their sidewalls at all

 

[StiHacka]

I do not quite understand this "too square" complain, I am a fan of square tires. I have had a pair of Derbys on my trail bike for over a year now and I had good experience with Neo Moto 2.3, Honey Badger 2.2, Wild Grip'r 2 Advanced, Vee Rubber Fluid 2.4, Butcher Control 2.3 and now Vigilante 2.3. I usually do not inflate more than to 22PSI, when wet and sketchy I go as low as 17-18PSI.

 

[slyfink]

There's a couple of threads on empty beer that discuss this. I'm thinking a Conti Trail King would be a good choice.

 

[wydopen]

I do not quite understand this "too square" complain, I am a fan of square tires. I have had a pair of Derbys on my trail bike for over a year now and I had good experience with Neo Moto 2.3, Honey Badger 2.2, Wild Grip'r 2 Advanced, Vee Rubber Fluid 2.4, Butcher Control 2.3 and now Vigilante 2.3. I usually do not inflate more than to 22PSI, when wet and sketchy I go as low as 17-18PSI.

on hardpack or loose over hard you can lean past the sideknobs easier when the tire is really square..the minion in 27.5 doesn't have that big balloon like shape like an ardent does but the ardent isn't aggressive enough for a front tire IMO...I do think Im not running the minion at as low of pressure as I was the HR2..ill drop some more pressure today and see but like the op im riding 90% rock and or sketchy tractionless turns..cant go too low

 

[wydopen]

There's a couple of threads on empty beer that discuss this. I'm thinking a Conti Trail King would be a good choice.

reading that thread Im apparently in the minority about the 2.3 minions on wide rims...

 

[StiHacka]

It's horses for courses etc. etc. Ride what you like and like what you ride, there is no universal recipe for happiness, right?

 

[kidwoo]

reading that thread Im apparently in the minority about the 2.3 minions on wide rims...

Well you probably lean your bike.

Those guys........probably not so much.


I've seen a lot of tires on those big ass rims. I have yet to see one that works well on 'normal' rims, not become useless past about 10 degrees of lean. like most things that go immediately popular, I think those bigass rims are something that help mediocre riders, ride better immediately. And that's really about it. Wider rims are weaker, more material (hence heavier than a normal sized counterpart, with the weight in the worst possible place), and are basically just a more socially acceptable version of fat bikes.

 

[slyfink]

Woo, your post is unclear. I'm not sure I understand it. I would think a square tire would be made more square by the super-wide rim. As a result the side-knobs would "engage" earlier, and therefore fold earlier than the same tire on a narrower rim. And potentially washing out if you lean your bike at all. This leads to that dead, fatbike-like feel. I thought that's what the guys on mtbr were describing. square tire=no good if you lean your bike.

I would think that to make those wide rims work, you'd want a round tire.

Me, I'd prefer a reasonable width rim (25mm inner), paired to a squarish tire that keeps the wheel lively, light and (relatively) inexpensive.

 

[dump]

reading that thread Im apparently in the minority about the 2.3 minions on wide rims...

41mm rims, 2.3"minion exo, 22psi - that doesn't sound right at all.

 

[wydopen]

Well you probably lean your bike.

Those guys........probably not so much.


I've seen a lot of tires on those big ass rims. I have yet to see one that works well on 'normal' rims, not become useless past about 10 degrees of lean. like most things that go immediately popular, I think those bigass rims are something that help mediocre riders, ride better immediately. And that's really about it. Wider rims are weaker, more material (hence heavier than a normal sized counterpart, with the weight in the worst possible place), and are basically just a more socially acceptable version of fat bikes.

I definitely think there is a point of diminishing returns...the ones im running are 35mm outside 30mm inside which isn't too excessive...they do work well with the right tire/psi

But guys running the 40+mm ones is too much imo

 

[kidwoo]

Woo, your post is unclear. I'm not sure I understand it. I would think a square tire would be made more square by the super-wide rim. As a result the side-knobs would "engage" earlier, and therefore fold earlier than the same tire on a narrower rim. And potentially washing out if you lean your bike at all. This leads to that dead, fatbike-like feel. I thought that's what the guys on mtbr were describing. square tire=no good if you lean your bike.

I would think that to make those wide rims work, you'd want a round tire.

Me, I'd prefer a reasonable width rim (25mm inner), paired to a squarish tire that keeps the wheel lively, light and (relatively) inexpensive.

"more square" just translates to the entire tread patch becoming flat. And yeah, like you said, they engage sooner but more importantly, you lean past them sooner.

 

[ianjenn]

Okay well I am gonna look at the Geax Goma may be the way I go since it is close to Maxxis in tread design...

See how they work I would like to run 20-25PSI in front if possible.

 

[kidwoo]

I think the key to finding a good tire with those things is (as has been said already) get a really round tire. Like one that has the sideknobs WAY too far over to be useful on a normal width rim. There are lots of them around. But I wouldn't go looking at the same tires you know work well on 25mm rims.

 

[wydopen]

After looking at some pics of Graves's yeti with 2.3 minions they look much more rounded than mine and thats only a 5mm difference..Im going to borrow a front wheel this weekend and mount the minion up and see how it feels..now Im second guessing my rim choice..It was working really well with the HR2 but I dont like being limited in my tire choice

 

[Bikael Molton]

never understood why empty beer guys want to corner on their skinwalls. Seems weird and dangerous.

 

[ianjenn]

HR 2's work very well around here. I have heard the Conti's do as well. Both are same price basically. The Conti is for sure a more round profile. There is a set of Derby's that got built yesterday for a 29r gonna go see what tires they used on em and how round they look....

 

[marshalolson]

would not go wider than i30 personally.

most people i know with derby rims are selling them this winter and dropping down to the LB i30 ones that give the same tire profile as a mavic 729

5mm is a small amount, but its still ~17% wider...

 

[slyfink]

would not go wider than i30 personally.

most people i know with derby rims are selling them this winter and dropping down to the LB i30 ones that give the same tire profile as a mavic 729

5mm is a small amount, but its still ~17% wider...

can you elaborate on the reasons? is it the whole "they ride like a fat" bike thing? or is it the more exposed and therefore vulnerable sidewalls?

 

[RayB]

I've been riding on Ibis 741's for a few months now.

High Roller 2 2.3 front.
Rock Razor 2.35 rear. (I've also used the HR2 on the rear as well)

Works great for me in a pretty wide variety of places in California. Since we're in the middle of the worst drought in 80+ years, I haven't gotten a chance to ride anything in the wet, however.

 

[wydopen]

the LB i30 ones that give the same tire profile as a mavic 729

5mm is a small amount, but its still ~17% wider...

That makes me feel better..I guess the difference is that rim wasnt designed to run a 2.3" tire..

Maxxis really needs to release a exo minion in a true 2.5

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I definitely think there is a point of diminishing returns...the ones im running are 35mm outside 30mm inside which isn't too excessive...they do work well with the right tire/psi

But guys running the 40+mm ones is too much imo

I agree, I think rim size is a microclimate (see what i did there?) of development right now that actually hasn’t found its identity yet. There are some crazy things going on with sizes, widths hopefully will find a sweet spot soon...I think they will settle somewhere between 28 - 35 for 'normal' size tires.

Fatbikes, 29+, and whatever else comes along is a war zone for the next few years.

 

[kidwoo]

Maxxis really needs to release a exo minion in a true 2.5

fuggitaboutit

SX casing butchers gotcha covered

 

[wydopen]

fuggitaboutit

SX casing butchers gotcha covered

Ive never been able to make myself dabble in specialized rubber...might have to change that...wouldnt mind the semi slick in the back either

edit: no 650b in sx casing..and no 650b in 2.5 in either casing unless you get into 1200+g dh tires...with how fast the industry adopted 650b and enduro racing the tire companies still feel like they are playing catchup

 

[wood booger]

HR 2's work very well around here. I have heard the Conti's do as well. Both are same price basically. The Conti is for sure a more round profile. There is a set of Derby's that got built yesterday for a 29r gonna go see what tires they used on em and how round they look....

Don't forget to swallow (Schwalbe) too! They are expensive but I sure you can work something out.

I have been running a 2.3 Razor Rock on 30mm inside 27.5 rims, profile is good. Better than the 2.3 Butcher up front.

Tire is pretty big for a 2.3, weight just under 1000 grams.
Rolls fast and will hook up on those dry, crusty rocks with loose on top you got down there!

 

[kidwoo]

no 650b in sx casing..and no 650b in 2.5

Serves you right you traitor!!!

That surprises me actually. I mean if anyone has their finger (razor) on the pulse of America in terms of 'what riders want', it's specialized!

 

[wydopen]

que post from specialized tire designer guy in...3...2...1...

 

[landcruiser]

I don't like being predictable...

Grid casing is the new SX. 650b and 29 Butcher Grid and Slaughter Grid are made with the same casing as the old SX tires, but with a true tubeless bead. The Butcher Grid tire has DH tread rubber (but Control tread depth) while the Slaughter Grid has the same tread rubber as the Control. I've been riding both on 30mm internal rims for the whole summer on my 650b Enduro.

But yes, our only 650b's in a 2.5 width are the Butcher DH and Hillbilly DH.

Before Woo can complain too much: 26" is not dead. We have neglected but not forgotten them. We're in the process of bringing them up to speed with the modern sizes.

 

[kidwoo]

We're in the process of bringing them up to speed with the modern sizes.

I'll post a pic of me eating a shoe if you can produce proof of a slaughter 26.

 

[wydopen]

Swapped out the 2.3 minion for a new 2.4 hr2

way better..upon closer inspection the 2.3 minions sideknobs are actually slightly narrower than the sidewall..not so on the hr2..rode some highspeed flat turns and I felt like I could trust my front end again..granted Im hurt and not riding totally confident but it was way better..will post some pics of the profile tomorrow..

 

[wydopen]

I don't like being predictable...

Grid casing is the new SX. 650b and 29 Butcher Grid and Slaughter Grid are made with the same casing as the old SX tires, but with a true tubeless bead. The Butcher Grid tire has DH tread rubber (but Control tread depth) while the Slaughter Grid has the same tread rubber as the Control. I've been riding both on 30mm internal rims for the whole summer on my 650b Enduro.

But yes, our only 650b's in a 2.5 width are the Butcher DH and Hillbilly DH.

Before Woo can complain too much: 26" is not dead. We have neglected but not forgotten them. We're in the process of bringing them up to speed with the modern sizes.

whats the actual width on a 30mm ID rim??? and any plans for a 2.5 650b version??

 

[rollertoaster]

Just put a bontrager xr3 on my lighter duty trail bike. The tire is very round on the wide rim, and I noticed the side knobs are really far down. It seems like it's gonna take a lot of lean angle to engage them. Definitely more angle than my worn out ardent up front can accommodate. A

 

[wydopen]

Just put a bontrager xr3 on my lighter duty trail bike. The tire is very round on the wide rim, and I noticed the side knobs are really far down. It seems like it's gonna take a lot of lean angle to engage them. Definitely more angle than my worn out ardent up front can accommodate. A

bro.. new tire always goes on the front

I really dont know how people can run ardents up front..those sideknobs are far from substantial

 

[rollertoaster]

Haha, problem is I wear my rears about in about a month, and my hr2 was all but useless. I never thought I'd like Ardents, but as a front tire they seem to work well for me.

 

[wydopen]

Haha, problem is I wear my rears about in about a month, and my hr2 was all but useless. I never thought I'd like Ardents, but as a front tire they seem to work well for me.

me too I swap the rear every month...when I was on 26" id always put the freshy on the front and put the front on the back..its like a 2 for 1

 

[rollertoaster]

If I did that I'd go through even more tires. But that wouldn't really be feasible for me because I run different front and rear tires. Plus I generally wear the side knobs out very quickly , so rotating front to rear would make my (new) rear die even quicker.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Haha, problem is I wear my rears about in about a month,

consider a brake downgrade ?

 

[ianjenn]

Look like a Butcher in front and a Slaughter in rear may work out decent!

 

[marshalolson]

running those (both in GRID casing) myself, and love them in anything from dry and/or rocky to slightly greasy. once its WET i would stick something else on the back. but in utah its a perfect everyday tire setup. i also could not imagine running those tires on anything narrower than i30. they are super round and weird looking on an i23-25 rim.

 

[HAB]

I'll post a pic of me eating a shoe if you can produce proof of a slaughter 26.

Do want. Or I might in about 8 months, that shit isn't going to fly this time of year in the PNW