[Muddy]

Hmmmm speculation

Understood, you're partial to gearbox - I get it, I do. Gearboxes are an innovation, again. But also are a pariah with the potential to disband the simplicity of the very bicycle already being enjoyed, enjoyed when not being forced to swallow.

 

[Muddy]

Suspension - High - Low Speed Rebound across the board. Enduro-Style needle bearings instead of flexy DU Bush. Moar stickers. Better Air Spring utilization.

 

[no skid marks]

Understood, you're partial to gearbox - I get it, I do. Gearboxes are an innovation, again. But also are a pariah with the potential to disband the simplicity of the very bicycle already being enjoyed, enjoyed when not being forced to swallow.

I dig gearboxes because they offer simplicity by being reliable and dependable. Bikes should be 100% and good to go at all times, Gearboxes offer the best chance of that. Anyway, massive derail, this is meant to be about suspension tech, not mech tech.

 

[hmcleay]

Obviously this article is focusing on shock/fork technology, but I think there is still great room for improvement in kinematics (patent minefield aside).
Perhaps active damping technology is inevitable, but I can only see it working brilliantly if it's applied to a kinematically optimised system.

 

[4130biker]

Only thing that makes real sense to me if going electronic is tying my suspension lockouts with my seatpost. If post is up, put me in pedal/trail mode. If down, open that shit up cause I be rally'ing. Why else would my post be down, certainly not caring about pedal bob if that is dropped and out of the way?

If this could be done without a rats nest of cable like current lock-outs, I'd be all over it. Great idea

 

[kidwoo]

The next thing in suspension will be shocks that compress for you, because running into things is hard (and dangerous!)

Along with plus sized tires (because turning is hard.........and dangerous!), IMBA spec trail design (because biking is hard......and dangerous!) dumbed down a-line (because jumping is hard.......and dangerous!), new shock designs will help grow the sport™ and foster enjoyment in newer riders.

 

[SDet]

I'm hoping for skf seals and bearings on everything. Until then, I'll just have to do it myself.

 

[StiHacka]

There is also a lot of room for improvement of stickers. I like AVA stickers.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Bio mechanical integration is where it's at. You say you are one with the bike, time to step up to the plate.

 

[FlipSide]

Here's what's on the real roadmap for electronics suspensions: just like Microsoft does with your POS PC, the manufacturers will be able to pre-program a steady decrease in performance with time, so that it will become useless after a couple of years and you'll be forced to upgrade to a brand new unit. Profit!

Basically, we're fucked...

 

[Jm_]

Yes, electronic suspension, possibly with data-logging embedded into the shock.

 

[iRider]

Only thing that makes real sense to me if going electronic is tying my suspension lockouts with my seatpost. If post is up, put me in pedal/trail mode. If down, open that shit up cause I be rally'ing. Why else would my post be down, certainly not caring about pedal bob if that is dropped and out of the way?

You never ride dirt jumps or pump tracks with you trail bike? Low post, stiff suspension!
And you never ride rough trails uphill? Soft suspension for traction and high post.
All this lockouts are just band-aids for bad suspension designs. I hardly ever use a lockout or CTD style feature on shocks. If the suspension is tuned right there is simply no need for it. The exceptions are pump tracks and DJs as the trail bike's suspension is not tuned for them, so I use the lockout as band-aid to get a stiff compression setup.

 

[slyfink]

Gearbox is an innovation, but being able to allow any of them to be servicable and accessable will destroy initial buy in for a new frame, and they will simply be too heavy in the end. Best drivetrain innovation will be finding ways to allow short-cages to track a normal cassette range.
One-Up are with patents now for their cogs, 45T at the present time. No drivetrain maker is going to allow that much more interference with their own design, yet I am quite certain larger cogs are coming like the grapes of doom.
Gearboxes (in large volume) will usher in busted frames, misaligned frames, frames losing tolerances quicker than greased owl poop, and potentially nasty failures of the internals.

I think this is the situation as it sits now. Not what the potential is should the industry decide to "innovate". You list the (valid) issues they would have to address, but they are not insurmountable imo.

Maybe, when I am eventually forced to retire my current 26" bike, a valid gearbox bike will be available that has good kinematics, and decent weight. If that is the case, I'll be all over it like a fat kid on cake. Especially since suspension will be sorted by then....

 

[commencaldh]

fully rigid dh bike lol

 

[norbar]

Some more might follow your lead and go back to coil, which brings to one area still in need of improvement: decent air spring cuves. Still haven't ridden an air sprung fork that i was happy with, i'll be interested to see how the DVO Diamond behaves - the combination of the adjustable negative spring and some volume tweaking through oil levels sounds promising.

BOS Rare Air felt amazing. Suposedly there are some reliability problems but yeah it is possible

Suntours commentar made most sense, more customer friendly. Win-win.

Jesus first Suntour makes sense, now you make sense. Is it opposite day?

Obviously this article is focusing on shock/fork technology, but I think there is still great room for improvement in kinematics (patent minefield aside).
Perhaps active damping technology is inevitable, but I can only see it working brilliantly if it's applied to a kinematically optimised system.

I kinda agree with Suntour. Simple, light, reliable is where it should be. Good kinematic are important. Some of what you suggest good but you still can't compromise realiability, weight and ease of service. If new susp will be too much off a fuss people will stop using it. We had a time around 2005 where susp was a hassle and no one liked it.

 

[Gary]

Kinda don't care about future suspension developments..
I'm still perfectly happy living with 2005 suspension performance values.

Strength and a decent level of dura/reliability is all I really care about.

 

[norbar]

Kinda don't care about future suspension developments..
I'm still perfectly happy living with 2005 suspension performance values.

Strength and a decent level of dura/reliability is all I really care about.

Do you prefer SPV Dorado X-Works or Nose diving marzo forks?

 

[Gary]

X-firm fork springs.
Ok. so I may never reach more than 7" travel but I'm happy to just deal with that by simply not being a total fucking pussy.

 

[norbar]

Yeah sore hands and constant service my forks in 2005 needed made me really manly. Nothing says a man more than blisters and oil stains.

 

[djjohnr]

Innovations that would actually be cool -

1. Give me a drivetrain that will let me make big changes in gearing under power without weighing a ton
2. Get rid of fork dive under braking without compromising small impact absorption or weighing a ton (lightweight linkage?)
3. Give me a progressive spring rate in a front fork that doesn't have the wallowy mid-stroke of an air shock
4. A reliable trail-adjustable head angle feature would be cool

 

[norbar]

Innovations that would actually be cool -

1. Give me a drivetrain that will let me make big changes in gearing under power without weighing a ton
2. Get rid of fork dive under braking without compromising small impact absorption or weighing a ton (lightweight linkage?)
3. Give me a progressive spring rate in a front fork that doesn't have the wallowy mid-stroke of an air shock
4. A reliable trail-adjustable head angle feature would be cool

1. Effigear
2. Most modern forks
3. Dunno why but we simply need a good air shock
4. Many trail bikes offer easily adjustable geo.

 

[djjohnr]

1. Effigear
2. Most modern forks
3. Dunno why but we simply need a good air shock
4. Many trail bikes offer easily adjustable geo.

1. Maybe - haven't tried one
2. No. Cranking up the low speed compression doesn't qualify to me.
3. Or not. Air springs will always have their inherent curve properties.
4. Adjusting the effective head-tube angle has a different effect on the overall geometry then making an adjustment elsewhere

 

[norbar]

1. The weight surprised me. The price makes me cringe though
2. You don't need tons. Just more than almost none. My avy has no problems
3. If you find you need more progression
4. Canyon has something like that. Also didn't scott experiment with it a long time ago?

 

[no skid marks]

1 Pinion 9 speed is also light with decent gaps between gears and wide range.
2 Would like to see a decent linkage fork, their ugliness will make them hard to hit market.
3 Air springs will come good, even if supplemented with a coil.
4 Fork travel adjust is unfortunately probably best for easy/quick head angle change. You don't need full travel for tighter stuff usually anyway. Kowas system was my favorite to date, but not on the fly, still quick though.

 

[tomasis7]

Jesus first Suntour makes sense, now you make sense. Is it opposite day¿

I bet it's rare occasion and it's likely it won't happen again so enjoy of today!

 

[norbar]

1 Pinion 9 speed is also light with decent gaps between gears and wide range.
2 Would like to see a decent linkage fork, their ugliness will make them hard to hit market.
3 Air springs will come good, even if supplemented with a coil.
4 Fork travel adjust is unfortunately probably best for easy/quick head angle change. You don't need full travel for tighter stuff usually anyway. Kowas system was my favorite to date, but not on the fly, still quick though.

1. I though pinion was slightly heavier. They still share the same problem as effigear. Being effing expensive.
2. Looks are a big marketing problem but I don't think the benefits outweight the downsides. Yes it may work amazing but you still have to think about weight/durability ratio, maintenence etc.
4. Yes but stoping for 1 minute at the top of the trail isn't that much of a problem. The whole idea that the bike should transform and also fellate you with a touch of a button mid trail is a bit absurd.

 

[Gary]

the notion that you can't ride up a hill, along some singletrack and then back down the hill with the same H/A is what is absurd.

 

[djjohnr]

1. I'd really like to try a gearbox bike, although I doubt they'll go anywhere until they can figure out how to bring the price point down. I think being able to change to any gear under power would be a game changer for anyone after 1 ride.
2. I think carbon might make a successful linkage for possible, but someone would need to do some R&D at the highest levels to figure it out. Maybe someone like Specialized or Cannondale would have the gumption to have a go at it.
3. Air springs will always have a flat spot in the middle of their curve, that's just how they work. You can try a multiple spring setup, but I think going to a solid material progressive spring would be better.
4. It's not about not being able to ride up and downhill on the same HA. In fact I wouldn't be changing HA mid-ride. This is more about being able to change effective head tube angle and fork travel in the parking lot to suit the trail where you're about to ride. IE, drop travel an inch and steepen the head angle to compensate. Right now you can change the travel of most if not all air forks by screwing on a pump, sagging to where you want end travel to be and then letting the negative/positive chambers equalize. You could possible add a button that achieves the same effect as screwing on a pump. Then an adjustable head angle would be nice without having to swap headset cups. Mongoose had an adjustable head tube on one of their bikes awhile back, and VP has their Varial headset.

 

[saruti]

suspension today is very good.
the problem starts with riders who dont know how to set it right.
I think suspension companies shuld use pro riders to give there settings on the web sites.
RockShox used to have settings for thier Boxxer, and it was really great to just buy a Boxxer and set it to your weight with all HS and LS comp and rebound. and it was really felt good riding with this basic settings (sure you can and shuld change it a little if you need)
I come a cross the "Vouilloz's Lapierre Spicy" article on PB with his setting for the PIKE.
even the PIKE, felt wrong when I started using it.... but after a while of testing and re setting, it felt great.
I actually was thinking it cant be acurate to set it like Vouilloz's, but after trying this exact setting on my PIKE... wow. it was so good! (and my PIKE felt good before. but not as good as that.)
so sure its easy to hire some pro's to give ther settings for forks.
but its a little harder to get that for different bikes and different rer shocks. but it can be done. and that will be great.

 

[tomasis7]

the notion that you can't ride up a hill, along some singletrack and then back down the hill with the same H/A is what is absurd.

Agreed.i ride like 64 at ha on enduro. Never bothered me when climbing up.

 

[tomasis7]

Here's what's on the real roadmap for electronics suspensions: just like Microsoft does with your POS PC, the manufacturers will be able to pre-program a steady decrease in performance with time, so that it will become useless after a couple of years and you'll be forced to upgrade to a brand new unit. Profit!

Basically, we're fucked...

Do basic maintainance on shock (oil seals, nitrogen) and download an update for improved performance through wifi supplied with the shock.

 

[no skid marks]

1. I though pinion was slightly heavier. They still share the same problem as effigear. Being effing expensive. Pinion were 18 speed only, they now have lighter 12 speed and lighter 9 speed. Can't recall if lighter than Effigear, yes both expensive up front, still not as bad as it seems if you ride lots(burn cassettes and chains) or eat mechs.
2. Looks are a big marketing problem but I don't think the benefits outweight the downsides. Yes it may work amazing but you still have to think about weight/durability ratio, maintenence etc. I think they're definitely the future, but yeah not yet.
4. Yes but stoping for 1 minute at the top of the trail isn't that much of a problem. The whole idea that the bike should transform and also fellate you with a touch of a button mid trail is a bit absurd.
Agreed, oxygen debt breaks for mere mortals last longer than turning a knob and compressing forks a touch.

the notion that you can't ride up a hill, along some singletrack and then back down the hill with the same H/A is what is absurd. Yeah true for riders in the DH thread section who look at anything but down as just a chore to get to the top, but those that want that don't balance their bike choices compromises on the decent, want steeper turning for the climbs. They also need a stem that gets longer when you stroke it or something.

1. I'd really like to try a gearbox bike, although I doubt they'll go anywhere until they can figure out how to bring the price point down. I think being able to change to any gear under power would be a game changer for anyone after 1 ride. That's not actually a real benefit with the current boxes, slite pedalling break still enables quicker less effort shifts, you can multi shift in one action though. The big benefit in shifting is being able to change without pedaling
2. Air springs will always have a flat spot in the middle of their curve, that's just how they work. You can try a multiple spring setup, but I think going to a solid material progressive spring would be better. Any design evolution would probably cost with friction of some sort.

1. some other wordds.

 

[csermonet]

This is the future, effigear and RUX

 

[TrumbullHucker]

This is the future, effigear and RUX

DAMN

woodride/10

 

[csermonet]

all RUXing about aside, that frame is titty lickin good

 

[norbar]

1. I'd really like to try a gearbox bike, although I doubt they'll go anywhere until they can figure out how to bring the price point down. I think being able to change to any gear under power would be a game changer for anyone after 1 ride.
2. I think carbon might make a successful linkage for possible, but someone would need to do some R&D at the highest levels to figure it out. Maybe someone like Specialized or Cannondale would have the gumption to have a go at it.
3. Air springs will always have a flat spot in the middle of their curve, that's just how they work. You can try a multiple spring setup, but I think going to a solid material progressive spring would be better.
4. It's not about not being able to ride up and downhill on the same HA. In fact I wouldn't be changing HA mid-ride. This is more about being able to change effective head tube angle and fork travel in the parking lot to suit the trail where you're about to ride. IE, drop travel an inch and steepen the head angle to compensate. Right now you can change the travel of most if not all air forks by screwing on a pump, sagging to where you want end travel to be and then letting the negative/positive chambers equalize. You could possible add a button that achieves the same effect as screwing on a pump. Then an adjustable head angle would be nice without having to swap headset cups. Mongoose had an adjustable head tube on one of their bikes awhile back, and VP has their Varial headset.

What you are saying in 4. is already available. Parking lot adjustable geo was featured on some dh bikes and it is available on the new canyon among others.

Still with decent geo you don't need to swap geo unless you ride totally different trails

 

[demo 9]

What about a "clutch" be able to take some power off (so you wouldnt bust the rear tire) without screwing up crank position on a techy climb.

Id love it for start gates. Broken so many chains on the start gate

 

[Nick]

What about a "clutch" be able to take some power off (so you wouldnt bust the rear tire) without screwing up crank position on a techy climb.

Id love it for start gates. Broken so many chains on the start gate

In the bmx days there was a gate 'holeshot' set up; basically a two speed which gave you a launch gear and when you spun that out you released a lever and dropped into a harder gear. It was one way, one time per lap, yet still could be called a derailleur. [/oldguy]

 

[xy9ine]

i remember these!

 

[Gary]

Id love it for start gates. Broken so many chains on the start gate

Pretty much every serial chain breaker I've ever known wasn't breaking them through RAW PWRZ alone. But from repeatedly making poor shifts under load that weakened the chain previous to the AWESUMZ half pedal stroke that ruined their day..

There's just no need to shift under load. my advice would be STOP IT!