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toxic sludge and aluminum sourcing for bikes

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Ok, so someone comes on to Ridemonkey, and posts an innocent question, carrying with it the underlying suggestion that maybe we, as mountain bikers, should be more aware of the environmental effects of the products we ride.

Eight pages later, and we are now locked in a heated, emotional pissing match over who's fault everything is, who's country is the best, who's country fcuked up most, and who can use the most big words to make sweeping generalizations.

Taking a step back, I see this as a big part of the whole problem (I'll try my hand at the whole generalization thing). You start out with someone suggesting that we take responsibility for some of the byproducts of the sport we all love. You end up with everyone pointing fingers. Now I'm not trying deride down who has posted previously, because I think blame is natural response to broad, overarching problems, and there are very few of us who wouldn't retort when someone puts down our country. I'm certainly no better. But wouldn't it be nice if that natural response to the first post was "Hmm that's a good point, maybe I'll do some research before I buy my next bike" or even "I'm ok with not knowing where the aluminum in my next frame came from so long as its cheap", just so long as it isn't "Well if the goddamn fat Americans would stop driving their SUVs and the pinko commi Russians hadn't built so many nukes, and those halfwit engineers off in bumblefcuk Hungry would've built a better dam, then I wouldn't have to think about this in the first place"

I apologize if that got a little preachy. Just my .02.
You nailed it. I apologize for contributing to a useless debate. After all, I think most of us don't know enough about the industrial processes involved in the production of a single bike. And fueling the hating and blaming thing won't fix the Danube catastrophe, or any other future ones which may happen.
 

Zorba

Chimp
May 25, 2010
17
0
Ok, so someone comes on to Ridemonkey, and posts an innocent question, carrying with it the underlying suggestion that maybe we, as mountain bikers, should be more aware of the environmental effects of the products we ride.
.
That is exactly why posted this thread question and couldn't agree more. I read with humour, dismay and eventually disgust many of the posts following. People, we need to take responsibility for ourselves and quit pointing fingers. Throughout history all humans have committed same deadly sins - for lack of a better term - and are in it together in the end.

For those with constructive comments, thank you. I for one would like to see manufacturers consider sourcing aluminum from companies that have solid environmental records (I know it's a dirty process, but at least a company with no spills, leaks, groundwater issues…is that possible?) and would like to see an industry incentive to recycle old frames/parts, etc.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
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dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Play nice.
Without the ignorance of his forefathers the US wouldn't be the superpower it is today.
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
This thread was pretty interesting to read. Sad to see that some are holding up the stereotypes that almost every foreigner thinks about Americans.

BTW, go to Germany, ask about WW2, and you'll see it's no joking matter for them. And it's not as if America was shining example of liberty at the time, with racism still rampant.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
BTW, go to Germany, ask about WW2, and you'll see it's no joking matter for them. And it's not as if America was shining example of liberty at the time, with racism still rampant.
We have German beat with the genocides against various Native American cultures throughout our history.

WWII was the primary driver for developing most US industries, the Cold War was secondary. Many of our industries like automakers are at a disadvantage compared to Japan and German since they had to revamp theirs after destruction in WWII.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
you sure do have a lot of hate for the US. Out of curiosity, where are you from?
i normaly can differentiate between americans and the usa. most americans are nice people, but the majority vote wrong and let their government do bad things without careing to much about it. so the actions of the government shines more and more on the normal americans. and some people here on this board don't help either to change my image of "the" americans. so if the usa would consist only of the people on the coastlines, there wouldn't be to much problems. sadly, there are to much wackos and crazy people in between. and the recent happenings from the so called "tea party movement" doesn't help changing the image either. so i'm sorry if i piss off the normal people on this board, a few bad apples are causing this...

and yes, i'm german. and it's funny how i should be responsible for things i didn't cause. but you people have the power to change ACTUAL things, looking in the past doesn't help...

btw ww2 also had good things for us germans, like getting a modern constitution where we actually can decide between more than 2 partys on a vote, something you guys probably never get...
 
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W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
i normaly can differentiate between americans and the usa. most americans are nice people, but the majority vote wrong and let their government do bad things without careing to much about it. so the actions of the government shines more and more on the normal americans. and some people here on this board don't help either to change my image of "the" americans. so if the usa would consist only of the people on the coastlines, there wouldn't be to much problems. sadly, there are to much wackos and crazy people in between. and the recent happenings from the so called "tea party movement" doesn't help changing the image either. so i'm sorry if i piss off the normal people on this board, a few bad apples are causing this...

and yes, i'm german. and it's funny how i should be responsible for things i didn't cause. but you people have the power to change ACTUAL things, looking in the past doesn't help...

btw ww2 also had good things for us germans, like getting a modern constitution where we actually can decide between more than 2 partys on a vote, something you guys probably never get...
No offense to you but you're a little off on your comments, sounds like you put a lot of trust in the media to form your opinion of 'americans' and the USA. To put it in perspective, read this article about your Chancellor Merkel making statements that are very close to what the Tea Party is advocating, so by your logic the German government is headed by a Tea Party politician.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6118859,00.html

Now, remember that anybody can run for election in the US, including Independants, Socialists, communists, etc and your argument losses even more steam. I mean, we just elected a black liberal with an islamic sounding name, ffs. Finally, not to be a flag thumper, but who do you think financed your industrial recovery after WW2? I grew up in Belgium and went to Germany many times and I love your country, Americans are far from perfect but that doesn't mean the Germany is doing things any better.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
btw ww2 also had good things for us germans, like getting a modern constitution where we actually can decide between more than 2 partys on a vote, something you guys probably never get...
see below
Now, remember that anybody can run for election in the US, including Independants, Socialists, communists, etc and your argument losses even more steam. I mean, we just elected a black liberal with an islamic sounding name, ffs.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
No offense to you but you're a little off on your comments, sounds like you put a lot of trust in the media to form your opinion of 'americans' and the USA. To put it in perspective, read this article about your Chancellor Merkel making statements that are very close to what the Tea Party is advocating, so by your logic the German government is headed by a Tea Party politician.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6118859,00.html

Now, remember that anybody can run for election in the US, including Independants, Socialists, communists, etc and your argument losses even more steam. I mean, we just elected a black liberal with an islamic sounding name, ffs. Finally, not to be a flag thumper, but who do you think financed your industrial recovery after WW2? I grew up in Belgium and went to Germany many times and I love your country, Americans are far from perfect but that doesn't mean the Germany is doing things any better.
i never said germany is perfect, we also have a lot of stupid people that vote wrong, that's why we have merkel, but we usualy do only harm in economic ways, not in war terms. my problem is that i don't like any of the big partys, all are only lead by lobby groups, not the people anymore. i voted for the pirate party in the last election, as the greens and the socialists are not better anymore then the so called liberals and the conservatives...

the problem with your system is that you can vote for everyone, but the winner takes all, so there is less diversity in washington. we have a system where a party needs 5% of the votes to get seats in berlin, something that is impossible in the usa. so you have a system that prevents itself from a real change...
 
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Pslide

Turbo Monkey
...Americans are far from perfect but that doesn't mean the Germany is doing things any better.
I don't know man, I've visited Germany many times and it's cleaner, lower crime, more modern, more environmentally conscious, healthier, plenty friendly, and has a less consumer oriented and more family oriented society. Considering what they've achieved since WW2 it's amazing. Compare that to the way America has gone since WW2 and.......

And if you check some country stats, Germany beats USA in many quality of life indexes. http://www.photius.com/rankings/

Just sayin. I love the USA and the ideals on which is was founded, but once you've lived outside the USA it really shifts your perspective.
 

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
I don't know man, I've visited Germany many times and it's cleaner, lower crime, more modern, more environmentally conscious, healthier, plenty friendly, and has a less consumer oriented and more family oriented society. Considering what they've achieved since WW2 it's amazing. Compare that to the way America has gone since WW2 and.......

And if you check some country stats, Germany beats USA in many quality of life indexes. http://www.photius.com/rankings/

Just sayin. I love the USA and the ideals on which is was founded, but once you've lived outside the USA it really shifts your perspective.
I can't disagree, we have truly lost our way. After WW2 America was considered to be THE power of the world and I think the american consciousness embraced the idea and fell in love with the power that a title gave us, we felt like we had to save the world from themselves instead of trying to better our own country, and everybody came to us with their hands out. If you like history you will see that scenario played out all the time with Empires (UK comes to mind). I think that is why we are seeing so much internal conflict now, people are waking up to the fact that we've lost our way.

Can't we all just get along. :rofl:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Hey Mr tea party,

It is a function of most economies to have poor. Poor is what makes rich. When you say you wish the rest of the world would bust there as like you, I understand you are out of the loop or just live is some fantasy. Alot of people bust their ass, harder than you ever would, in sweat shops run by nike, johnson and johnson, and pretty much any company sold at walmart. The poor have to be there, as one of the biggest consumer on the planet we dont need to make it so hard for the people who make our sh!t.

America is not on top. I just went to europe 2 months ago and believe me, they have stronger money, more stability, and health care. Everyone I talked to over there asked me what the hell is wrong with our politics? That foolish pride is running us in the ground.

The EPA is not "crooked". That is crap put in your head by people who are sucking off big business. The EPA makes companies spend money to keep the planet clean because the companies will not self regulate. This is why we have government.

And yes we will be there the next time there is a major disaster.
This is the first time I have agree with FlyingPolack, so I have to jump in even late.

We are the number one country in the world without a doubt. Why, because we have the biggest military.

Are they are other countries with a better standard of living, even better economies? Yes, because our military takes up more than 50% of our nation's budget.

Now I disapprove on how we deploy our troops, i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan, but if we did not support NATO or have our navy patrol the Pacific, the Soviet Bloc would still exist and Japan would be a province of China.

As for the EPA, you must be nuts if you think it is not corrupt. The question is how much, but it varies from Administration to Administration. Just look at MMS to find out.
 

fluider

Monkey
Jun 25, 2008
440
9
Bratislava, Slovakia
Really does anyone think military is to help another countries to get rid of their problems? Do you really think USA boosted their military presense all over the world to protect those countries against that evilish bad soviet block? Is there still somebody thinking USA was helping allies for pure moral and justice reasons and helping allies to reconstruct after the war?
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
cause scanning for bombs is a bad thing :rolleyes:
hey i found something for you, can you think of a country that is even more hated in the muslim world then the usa? right, the israelis. so, they have a little bit more actual experience with people who want to blow them up right? so there airports should be full of these body scanners right? so read why they don't use them:

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/2941610/story.html

money quote:

"I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747," Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.
so, why are the americans now safer when using them? the only thing that's safe to say is the manufactures of these machines make biiiiig profit :rofl:
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
so, why are the americans now safer when using them? the only thing that's safe to say is the manufactures of these machines make biiiiig profit :rofl:
youre right! its all a conspiracy to boost sales of scanning machines! (and fuel the american military right?) brilliant!

seriously guy, you need to stop sniffing paint in a sock. you act like body scans or any other scanning is a bad idea.


heres another "money quote"
"Full-body scanners are used by dozens of countries around the world and are considered one of the most effective methods of screening," Merrifield said in a statement.
or how about this gem:
Sela testified it makes more sense to create a "trusted traveller" system so pre-approved low-risk passengers can move through an expedited screening process. That would leave more resources in the screening areas, where automatic sniffing technology would detect any explosive residue on a person or their baggage
yeah, a pre-approved passenger list is a great idea :think:
im sure not checking people they think arent a "threat" will work out great.
"Having a random search at the airport is like Russian roulette,"
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
youre right! its all a conspiracy to boost sales of scanning machines! (and fuel the american military right?) brilliant!

seriously guy, you need to stop sniffing paint in a sock. you act like body scans or any other scanning is a bad idea.


heres another "money quote"


or how about this gem:

yeah, a pre-approved passenger list is a great idea :think:
im sure not checking people they think arent a "threat" will work out great.
you are quoting a man that needs to defend a 11 mio investment instead of trying to understand what the israeli guy is saying...

maybe i try it this way, watch this video of a live demonstration in the german tv how easy it is to trick out one of these machines:


it's subtitled so you can understand what they are sayin...

all i'm saying is that they are completely useless, still the governments are making these mandatory to act like they are doing something against terrorist threads. most people don't know these facts and think their governtments are right...
 

illnotsick

Monkey
Jun 3, 2009
257
0
One of those sniffing devices caught the residue from a shotgun shell in a jacket pocket, wrapped in plastic, buried in my suitcase. Just the residue left by 2 shells. I found them cleaning out the garage one day and had them in the pocket for maybe 5 minutes before I put them away. This was 9 months before the flight.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
One of those sniffing devices caught the residue from a shotgun shell in a jacket pocket, wrapped in plastic, buried in my suitcase. Just the residue left by 2 shells. I found them cleaning out the garage one day and had them in the pocket for maybe 5 minutes before I put them away. This was 9 months before the flight.
nuts if true
 

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
Thanks for the heads up. I agree that the most powerful weapon we have as consumers is being educated about what we are purchasing. Lowering the profits of those whom we chose not to buy from will bring about change.

The irony of managing our resources in a more responsible manner is that what we are accomplishing with our worlds current state of affairs is making the same amount of space fit a greater amount of people. To what end I say when the disparages of the have's and have not's of the world are so great? Call me crazy but what if everyone in this world had a roof over their head, 3 meals a day, and an education, I think that then managing our resources in a sustainable way would come much easier.
 

matsO

Monkey
Aug 26, 2006
139
0
Thanks for the heads up. I agree that the most powerful weapon we have as consumers is being educated about what we are purchasing. Lowering the profits of those whom we chose not to buy from will bring about change.

The irony of managing our resources in a more responsible manner is that what we are accomplishing with our worlds current state of affairs is making the same amount of space fit a greater amount of people. To what end I say when the disparages of the have's and have not's of the world are so great? Call me crazy but what if everyone in this world had a roof over their head, 3 meals a day, and an education, I think that then managing our resources in a sustainable way would come much easier.
I agree with most things you say, well said!

But one thing I always like to point out and that is the education bit. What does that mean?

I agree that there is knowledge that must spread to everyone about the fact that aids is not cured by raping children. But I also think that the education demand is a big threat to the natural balanced societies on earth that has all the education they need about life in their daily life as fishermen etc.
 

Patan-DH

Monkey
Jun 9, 2007
458
0
Patagonia
U guys are watching too much discovery channel.

--------
travel some...put your feet down the earth.

Bicycles of any material are the most efficient non pullution way of transportation.

What can make them contaminant is your addiction to buy a bran-new one each season.

ride
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
New soy based composite resins:

http://cornellalumnimagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1403&Itemid=1&ed=30

http://blog.cleantechies.com/2010/07/21/soy-based-building-materials-give-green-building-new-meaning/

Only skateboards so far:

Our technology is broad, but we started with skateboards. A Cornell graduate, Jason Salfi, co-founded Comet Skateboards, and was looking for ways to make his boards Greener. He came to us. With Comet we worked to eliminate epoxy and fiberglass from the boards. The new boards have both high-performance and are earth-friendly . Before, when the company used epoxy and fiberglass to make their boards Jason did not bring his daughter to the shop. Now with our materials used for the boards he lets her crawl around the floor – pretty unusual for a manufacturing environment.
 
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xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
the urge 'veggie' linen fiber helmets are another interesting 'green' composite alternative. curious as to the toxicity of the resin used (if it's just standard stuff). more bamboo framebuilders popping up as well. i fondled a locally built bamboo frame (with hemp lugs), and it was lighter than expected. pretty neat, actually. time for a bamboo dh bike?