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The great Fiscal Cliff face off thread.

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Pesqueeb, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    All ur jobs r belong to us.


    #1
  2. stevew unique white person

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    barry has been re elected.

    rainbows/unicorns aren't far behind.
    #2
  3. dante Unabomber

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    Riiiiiiight, because "100 basis points" sounds so much more scary than "a 1% increase in medical costs".

    And that dipsh!t is just panicking because the "fiscal cliff" will reduce government payouts to health care providers, which Republicans insisted on. He couldn't care less about the resulting loss in GDP or rise in unemployment...

    So basically he wants Simpson Bowles which will keep his lips firmly attached to the government teat, but just screw everyone else.

    Fvck him.
    #3
  4. Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    Awwwww yeaaa..........
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
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  5. Toshi Harbinger of Doom

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    That's what I'm concerned about. I don't get why Aetna's non-MD CEO would care that much about Medicare reimbursement rates, though. If anything a cut to Medicare's rates would let him similarly slash his reimbursement rates.
    #5
  6. stevew unique white person

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    if you were watching the press conference yesterday he washed that grey right out of his hair and visited a tanning bed since election day.
    #6
  7. dante Unabomber

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    Ooooh, joking about a black guy getting a sun tan. Where have I heard that one before?




    Oh right.

    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
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  8. stevew unique white person

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    joking...no....observation as to the last time i saw him talking on the tv....probably election night.....amongst the crackers who were shucking and jiving like they were at a wedding.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
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  9. manimal Ociffer Tackleberry

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    This is what I'm worried about should the two halves not come to an agreement by Jan 1:
    http://cis.org/kephart/3400-border-patrol-agents-chopping-block
    ..and my NC law enforcement certification just expired so I can't get my old job back without going through the academy again :rant:
    #9
  10. JohnE filthy rascist

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    I am told my Illinois LE cert is a lifetime cert...accepted in all but 3 states. Which of course, are the 3 I would work LE in if someone wanted to hire me post AF.

    Good thing I plan on moving beyond this line of work.
    #10
  11. DaveW Space Monkey

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    Come to an agreement?
    Not likely!

    If your very lucky they will come to another temporary workaround and pass the buck to the future again.
    #11
  12. Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    If at first you don't succeed....
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  13. chillindrdude Active Member

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    I predict jack sh!t happening with those republican assholes in congress. Credit rating prob downgraded again. No recession but recovery stalled. Republitards rejoice.
    #13
  14. jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    I hope we can last 2 years longer with a do nothing congress because those assholes need to go.
    #14
  15. Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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  16. rockofullr confused

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    I'm gonna pull out my contingency plan. Let me just unzip my pants.

    lolz

    Yup follow the example of a bunch of frightened idiots who had no idea what they were dealing with. You might want to ask the history dudes how that worked out for them.

    He sees the future!!
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  17. $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    fiscal cliff begets welfare cliff:
    only after you've worked hard can you appreciate working hard. why the fck would someone entering (or who has recently entered) the work force be motivated to earn a proper wage in this fiscal climate of runaway entitlements?

    solid floor, but no roof.
    learn to swim.
    day of reckoning soon at hand.
    #17
  18. Jm_ Active Member

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    I'm not sure why so many people believe there are just droves of people lying around that "don't want to work". They are certain it's the poor that has caused the economic mess. I just don't get it...
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  19. 4xBoy Active Member

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    Everyone needs a scapegoat, easiest to use one that can't fight back.
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  20. Toshi Harbinger of Doom

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    Well, there is the absymal employment to population ratio among, say, high school dropouts. 40% vs 72% comparing high school dropouts to bachelor's degree holders from the latest data below. I'm not saying the economy would be materially different should these uneducated and presumably unskilled people work, but they're not.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm
    #20
  21. Beef Supreme Active Member

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    The better question is why the fck would someone work for $7.25 an hour? Bonus points for asking someone who claims CEOs will go Galt over a 3% increase in the top marginal tax rate.
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  22. Jm_ Active Member

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    Take a look around at the population. Do you think we can really have everyone work? I'm starting to have serious doubts about what the population explosion has caused. Look at businesses that are going out of business and unions that are just fighting to keep wages from being cut every 2 years (rather than go up with inflation!). The only way so many businesses are able to stay afloat these days is by whittling down everything more and more. Is it possible that "everyone" can be employed? You state that there are a large percentage of a demographic that are not employed. Ok. That has no causation whatsoever with them wanting to or not wanting to work. Those numbers do not imply anything in that realm.

    What I do see is that there's only so much "stuff" that we can make and buy. I see far more people trying to get jobs than can be supported by an economy. Go look at what walmarts and other things do to midwestern towns. Now a few people get some crappy 35hr/week jobs, but what do the rest do that supported the local community? Commit suicide? Get a law degree and compete with all the other people in a field with a fixed amount of jobs? Go look at any business trying to increase profits and decrease costs. They'd rather replace 100 workers with 20 machines that never get tired or need a pension and so on. What do we do about that?

    Lazy people? I just don't know. I hear that rhetoric all the time, but I don't see much that proves it, and I'm a relatively "high income earner" now. I see lots of people with jobs, maybe not good jobs, and maybe not jobs that have ANY kind of future, but going back to what I said above, there are fixed resources and the economy operates within certain parameters. So what is better, 50 "menial jobs" or 25 "good jobs" and 25 people out of work? I don't have these answers, only to say that I don't see this "lazy class" that the top income earners and republicans always point out. If anything, THESE PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THE MISTAKES, MEDICARE, MEDICADE, EXCESSIVE AND BLOATED DEFENSE CONRACTS AND SOCIAL ENTITLEMENTS OF THE PREVIOUS GENERATION.

    The worst of all is when I brought up to my conservative friends that actual tax rates and effective tax rates are two different things because of deductions, shelters, credits, and all sorts of other loopholes. As soon as you bring up that the rich are paying a smaller percentage than middle and even lower incomes, they immediately attack the poor as "not paying enough taxes". This blows my mind every single time. I'm not against a slightly progressive tax system, but we don't have this, no matter what the rates are. I'm also not against a flat-system, but we don't have this either. We have a regressive system considering anyone past EIC and up (the ones too poor to pay taxes AND eat), and that is just flat out wrong, and attacking the "poor" is not going to solve any problems.

    We are going over a fiscal cliff because our population exploded and everyone has to have a piece of the pie. Everyone wants two cars. Everyone wants a new house. Everyone wants all these things. If our population was much smaller, it might be much easier to add a lot of value-per-capita. I don't think that's the case anymore.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    #22
  23. $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    apart from significant tax reform, what's missing in our society is something the arab culture has: shame

    if we had more shame in our society, we would also have more dignity, and more self-respect. there is no shame in being out-of-work. unfortunately, there is also no shame in being out-of-work, and choosing that path. that should change.

    used to be if someone just sat on their ass, they were widely considered a shiftless sack of crap, and it had NOTHING to do w/ political affiliation or ideology.

    when teh **** did that change?

    jm_: not sure i understand your reasoning that pop explosion has significantly contributed to our fiscal cliff scenario. i see it more of a 'quality -vs- quantity' with our population. also, please explain what your troubles with defense contracts are. seems to me, there's a work-for-money arrangement, not just money-for-the-asking arrangement (i.e., some - not all - entitlement programs). like anything else so large, i'm sure there are exceptions; just looking for what you believe to be the prevailing wisdom on this. yes, i'm a defense contractor, and former military. can't take the time to be offended on your opinion, if it matters.
    #23
  24. $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    i would imagine similar arguments will be made that capping charitable contribution deductions would also directly & immediately lead to the shuttering of many outreach programs (foodbanks, homeless shelters, single family assistance programs, etc.) you know: the poor.

    sure, there will always be some significant amount of throw away or expired-in-date-only food to be made available for low income households, but who will now store & distribute if the resources to do that are no longer available (e.g., feed the children, loaves & fishes)? are we to then become a nation of volunteers? certainly not!

    in these negotiations, everything's on the table, just not food
    #24
  25. jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    Gold Parachute much? 'What about a CEO who runs a company into the ground then when the company folds, he walks away with cash in his pocket? Or worse gets paid a "bonus" + his severance, then walks away from the burning wreckage with cash in his pocket?

    Hostess is a great example of how wall street managed to up the CEO pay for unqualified CEO's (from $750k/year to over $2M in 2 years) while cashing out the pensions that EMPLOYEE's paid into before burning the place to the ground.

    I have never had a job where I got paid to leave if I did a poor job. This should hold true for ALL JOBS, regardless of title.
    #25
  26. Andyman_1970 New Member

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    Can a brotha get an AMEN!!
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  27. Toshi Harbinger of Doom

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    I approve of your general indignation, but disagree a bit with the reasoning here. It seems you're arguing both sides of the coin: that people wanting more than they "deserve", if you will, caused the mess (see subprime crisis from the borrowers' side); AND that people aren't capable of wanting and acquiring enough crap such that we achieve full employment or some approximation thereof.

    I suppose both could be true, but it doesn't make for a clean story.

    My philosophy is that the governments of the world should all inflate their currencies simultaneously so as to lift the rabbit up by its ears...
    #27
  28. $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    as an HP stock holder from back when i was one of them, i can 100% appreciate the burning with anger over this (losses are enough to put a sizable down payment on a house, or buy a new car w/ all the fixins). unfortunately, it was better to pay off carly, and then mark hurd, than to have a long & protracted legal battle that would further embroil & distract the company.
    if yearly reviews & customer feedback are any indication, i did a great job at HP, then EIM, and i was shown the door (downsizing, then bankruptcy). both defense contracts.

    no soup for me either.
    #28
  29. SLOPE Member

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    $tinkle makes sense.
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  30. Beef Supreme Active Member

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    I am not sure how this relates to my point but I do agree with you. This is why the Republican tax reform plan is a bad one. Any cap on total deductions is a defacto cap on charitable deductions. Charitable deductions are one of the few deductions that are variable.
    #30
  31. jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    Why do you have to "pay them off" in the first place? Oregon is a "right to work" state where you can be fired without cause at any time. Why would this not apply to a CEO the same as it does for the lower classes?

    I fail to see the NEED to "pay someone off" if they fail at the job they were hired to do. Can them and be done with it.

    I also think CEO salaries are out of control, but that has been a growing issue in this country for years.
    #31
  32. Jim Mac Active Member

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  33. Beef Supreme Active Member

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    I really hope the Republicans are stupid enough to do this. It will be Doomsday alright, for them.

    1) Republicans will get no credit for passing middle class tax cuts.
    2) Obama needs to play the 14th amendment card on the debt ceiling and wipe out all Republican leverage on that front. The Republicans will have a fit but who would even notice? Let them make the case that America should not pay its bills.
    3) Obama can then hammer the Republicans by pushing to restore popular cuts in the sequester. They will have no positive agenda and their obstructionism will be on display.
    4) Obama gets to pocket savings on defense that would be politically painful otherwise.
    5) The press loves a winner. This would be a major departure from Obama's first term where he got pushed around.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/republican-doomsday-plan-cave-on-taxes-vote-present/
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    #33
  34. Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    The only place this belongs is in the no context thread.
    #34
  35. $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    i'm test driving a 2013 fusion hybrid on wednesday
    #35
  36. Jm_ Active Member

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    Obviously you are a gay hippie libtard communist then, and you realize the battery is going to go out in 6 months and cost $300,000 to replace? I also heard they make the batteries from aborted fetuses.
    #36
  37. Polandspring88 Superman

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    Don't forget that the Sync system links to your Obamaphone and the sheet metal is made from melted down guns.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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  38. $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    odd how each day increases my chances of losing my job (that i got only last month), yet at the same time i find myself proportionately drawn toward a new ghey-hippie-libtard car (47/47 city/hwy ftw).

    http://goo.gl/93nxz
    #38
  39. Jim Mac Active Member

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    The Lawd works in mysterious ways. I drive a Forester but I'm not a lesbian...at least last time I checked.
    #39
  40. stevew unique white person

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    where's syadasti when you need him to sh!t all over mileage numbers...
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    #40