[Pesqueeb]

All ur jobs r belong to us.

WASHINGTON--Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Mark Bertolini, who is among a dozen chief executives meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama later this week, on Monday warned that companies are preparing backup plans that include layoffs if the White House and congressional leaders are unable to reach a deal to avoid the combination of tax increases and spending cuts known as the "fiscal cliff."

"The American people are going to suffer because we'll lay them off--because we know how to respond to these kinds of situations," Mr. Bertolini warned at a Wall Street Journal CEO Council event.

The comments come seven weeks before the Jan. 1 date on which spending cuts and tax increases take effect. Mr. Obama and U.S. House Speaker John Boehner (R, Ohio) last week each defended their competing plans for resolving the budget fight, even as they opened the door to a potential compromise. Mr. Obama meets with Democratic and Republican congressional leaders next Friday--after he has received input from executives and labor leaders.

The Congressional Budget Office has warned of a recession if leaders fail to act. Mr. Bertolini--who said in an interview that he is presenting contingency plans to his own board in two weeks--used Aetna as an example of how real-world layoffs could be set in motion.

"We have contingencies built in and as we watch the economy develop, we make decisions along the way: Do we release capital expenditures? Do we open up hiring?" he said. "Our goal so far is to freeze headcount until we know where the economy is headed."

But a contraction in the economy could set in motion a damaging chain of events. Mr. Bertolini said that a 1.7% contraction in gross domestic production translates into a 1% increase in unemployment--and an increase in medical costs of 100 basis points. That is because workers simultaneously receive layoff warnings and notifications of their right to stay with their current health plans for a certain amount of time. The result is that people rush to the doctor before they lose health insurance, driving up health insurance costs.

"It's a huge issue," Mr. Bertolini said. So far, Mr. Bertolini said that monthly reports on the number of people in group health plans that it offers has reflected "slow leakage, less employment--but it's been pretty steady, so it hasn't been like 2008, 2009."

He said that if Congress and the White House dawdle, "meanwhile the economy is going to react." He said that "a lot of companies are going to pull out their contingency plans and start taking action." He said that businesses are different from politics, where accountability comes only with election cycles and not from boards of directors.

"If I'm not acting on those contingencies, I get fired. No election, I get fired," Mr. Bertolini said.

Mr. Bertolini said that Mr. Obama "needs to improve his relationship with the business community in order to get the economy growing again." He also said that Mr. Obama needed to expect that "a lot of people get angry at first because they don't want to hear the bad news that's coming their way. But if they hear it and they see a plan that you're making progress along the way...they get it."

He said that businesses were still mindful of the lessons of the financial crisis.

"Businesses have never sat on so much cash as they're sitting on now--and there's a reason for that: they're worried about where the economy's headed. What we don't want to be is caught in a situation like we were caught in 2008 where we're worrying about where the economy is going and how to keep our businesses afloat."

Mr. Bertolini is part of a group called "Fix the Debt," which has supported the 2010 deficit-reduction package designed by Republican Alan Simpson and Democrat Erskine Bowles, which called for a combination of tax increases and spending cuts to reduce the deficit. He said that changes to Medicare and Social Security had to be a part of any solution.

"The solutions are--it's the retirement age; it's means-testing Social Security and Medicare; it's a whole host of things that are known; understood all part of Simpson-Bowles work. We just need to get the leadership."

Mr. Bertolini said he was concerned that Congress and the Obama administration might come up with plan to deal with the automatic spending cuts that take effect next year by pushing off a solution until the end of 2013.

"What scares me a little bit...if we just say by the end of 2013, we'll get something done relative to the debt, then we're going to have a 2013 that looks a lot like 2012, and maybe worse...so we kick the can too, which is holding back" on spending.

He said that "it's a bit like the 21st century version of the castle gates getting closed during the plague: We'll just close it up and we'll hold on until we find out were the economy's headed and then we'll make our decision."

 

[stevew]

barry has been re elected.

rainbows/unicorns aren't far behind.

 

[dante]

But a contraction in the economy could set in motion a damaging chain of events. Mr. Bertolini said that a 1.7% contraction in gross domestic production translates into a 1% increase in unemployment--and an increase in medical costs of 100 basis points. That is because workers simultaneously receive layoff warnings and notifications of their right to stay with their current health plans for a certain amount of time. The result is that people rush to the doctor before they lose health insurance, driving up health insurance costs.

Riiiiiiight, because "100 basis points" sounds so much more scary than "a 1% increase in medical costs".

And that dipsh!t is just panicking because the "fiscal cliff" will reduce government payouts to health care providers, which Republicans insisted on. He couldn't care less about the resulting loss in GDP or rise in unemployment...

So basically he wants Simpson Bowles which will keep his lips firmly attached to the government teat, but just screw everyone else.

Fvck him.

 

[Pesqueeb]

barry has been re elected.

rainbows/unicorns aren't far behind.

Awwwww yeaaa..........

 

[Toshi]

And that dipsh!t is just panicking because the "fiscal cliff" will reduce government payouts to health care providers, which Republicans insisted on. He couldn't care less about the resulting loss in GDP or rise in unemployment...

That's what I'm concerned about. I don't get why Aetna's non-MD CEO would care that much about Medicare reimbursement rates, though. If anything a cut to Medicare's rates would let him similarly slash his reimbursement rates.

 

[stevew]

Awwwww yeaaa..........

if you were watching the press conference yesterday he washed that grey right out of his hair and visited a tanning bed since election day.

 

[dante]

Ooooh, joking about a black guy getting a sun tan. Where have I heard that one before?




Oh right.

 

[stevew]

joking...no....observation as to the last time i saw him talking on the tv....probably election night.....amongst the crackers who were shucking and jiving like they were at a wedding.

 

[manimal]

This is what I'm worried about should the two halves not come to an agreement by Jan 1:
http://cis.org/kephart/3400-border-patrol-agents-chopping-block

.... could result in 3,400 Border Patrol agents losing their jobs. Also on the chopping block are 3,400 Customs and Border Protection inspectors, 932 Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) special agents, and 802 ICE deportation and removal officers.

..and my NC law enforcement certification just expired so I can't get my old job back without going through the academy again

 

[JohnE]

I am told my Illinois LE cert is a lifetime cert...accepted in all but 3 states. Which of course, are the 3 I would work LE in if someone wanted to hire me post AF.

Good thing I plan on moving beyond this line of work.

 

[DaveW]

Come to an agreement?
Not likely!

If your very lucky they will come to another temporary workaround and pass the buck to the future again.

 

[Pesqueeb]

If at first you don't succeed....

It's the "law of the land," declared House Speaker John Boehner about Obamacare, telling Diane Sawyer that the election settled that. Of course, his spokesperson walked that back faster than the tea bagger caucus in the House could get to the phones, saying Boehner "remain committed to repealing the law, and he said in the interview it would be on the table."
To prove just how committed he is to ignoring the will of the voting public and to making sure that millions of Americans don't have access to affordable health insurance, Boehner writes this op-ed in his hometown paper. In it, he explains how they're going to try to repeal it now: by gutting it.

The president’s health care law adds a massive, expensive, unworkable government program at a time when our national debt already exceeds the size of our country’s entire economy. We can’t afford it, and we can’t afford to leave it intact. That’s why I’ve been clear that the law has to stay on the table as both parties discuss ways to solve our nation’s massive debt challenge.
And if you think Rep. Darrell Issa's Oversight Committee has been a massive waste of taxpayer dollars with its endless investigations of the Obama administration, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Over the past couple of years, I have noted there are essentially three major routes to repeal of the president’s law: the courts, the presidential election process and the congressional oversight process. With two of those three routes having come up short, the third and final one becomes more important than ever.

Vigorous oversight of the health care law by the House can be expected and, in fact, is already under way.In other words, nothing's changed by the real gains Democrats made in this election and the Republican House's agenda hasn't changed one bit. It's going to be another two years of nothing but obstruction, abortion, and Obamacare repeal.

That'll go over well with voters in two years.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/21/1163755/-John-Boehner-Let-s-gut-Obamacare-in-deficit-reduction

 

[chillindrdude]

I predict jack sh!t happening with those republican assholes in congress. Credit rating prob downgraded again. No recession but recovery stalled. Republitards rejoice.

 

[jimmydean]

I hope we can last 2 years longer with a do nothing congress because those assholes need to go.

 

[Pesqueeb]

All ur retirements r belong to us.

 

[rockofullr]

a lot of companies are going to pull out their contingency plans and start taking action

I'm gonna pull out my contingency plan. Let me just unzip my pants.

He said that "it's a bit like the 21st century version of the castle gates getting closed during the plague: We'll just close it up and we'll hold on until we find out were the economy's headed and then we'll make our decision."

lolz

Yup follow the example of a bunch of frightened idiots who had no idea what they were dealing with. You might want to ask the history dudes how that worked out for them.

Come to an agreement?
Not likely!

If your very lucky they will come to another temporary workaround and pass the buck to the future again.

He sees the future!!

 

[$tinkle]

fiscal cliff begets welfare cliff:

We are constantly told that it is difficult to find any state or federal spending that can possibly be cut. This suggestion is, I think, ludicrous. Let’s start by cutting welfare, and cutting it deeply. Not only because it is wasteful, but because by devaluing work it threatens to cripple not merely our economy, but our culture. An America where you are better off cashing welfare checks than working is an America that cannot long survive.

only after you've worked hard can you appreciate working hard. why the fck would someone entering (or who has recently entered) the work force be motivated to earn a proper wage in this fiscal climate of runaway entitlements?

solid floor, but no roof.
learn to swim.
day of reckoning soon at hand.

 

[Jm_]

I'm not sure why so many people believe there are just droves of people lying around that "don't want to work". They are certain it's the poor that has caused the economic mess. I just don't get it...

 

[4xBoy]

I'm not sure why so many people believe there are just droves of people lying around that "don't want to work". They are certain it's the poor that has caused the economic mess. I just don't get it...

Everyone needs a scapegoat, easiest to use one that can't fight back.

 

[Toshi]

I'm not sure why so many people believe there are just droves of people lying around that "don't want to work". They are certain it's the poor that has caused the economic mess. I just don't get it...

Well, there is the absymal employment to population ratio among, say, high school dropouts. 40% vs 72% comparing high school dropouts to bachelor's degree holders from the latest data below. I'm not saying the economy would be materially different should these uneducated and presumably unskilled people work, but they're not.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

 

[Beef Supreme]

nly after you've worked hard can you appreciate working hard. why the fck would someone entering (or who has recently entered) the work force be motivated to earn a proper wage in this fiscal climate of runaway entitlements?

solid floor, but no roof.
learn to swim.
day of reckoning soon at hand.

The better question is why the fck would someone work for $7.25 an hour? Bonus points for asking someone who claims CEOs will go Galt over a 3% increase in the top marginal tax rate.

 

[Jm_]

Well, there is the absymal employment to population ratio among, say, high school dropouts. 40% vs 72% comparing high school dropouts to bachelor's degree holders from the latest data below. I'm not saying the economy would be materially different should these uneducated and presumably unskilled people work, but they're not.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

Take a look around at the population. Do you think we can really have everyone work? I'm starting to have serious doubts about what the population explosion has caused. Look at businesses that are going out of business and unions that are just fighting to keep wages from being cut every 2 years (rather than go up with inflation!). The only way so many businesses are able to stay afloat these days is by whittling down everything more and more. Is it possible that "everyone" can be employed? You state that there are a large percentage of a demographic that are not employed. Ok. That has no causation whatsoever with them wanting to or not wanting to work. Those numbers do not imply anything in that realm.

What I do see is that there's only so much "stuff" that we can make and buy. I see far more people trying to get jobs than can be supported by an economy. Go look at what walmarts and other things do to midwestern towns. Now a few people get some crappy 35hr/week jobs, but what do the rest do that supported the local community? Commit suicide? Get a law degree and compete with all the other people in a field with a fixed amount of jobs? Go look at any business trying to increase profits and decrease costs. They'd rather replace 100 workers with 20 machines that never get tired or need a pension and so on. What do we do about that?

Lazy people? I just don't know. I hear that rhetoric all the time, but I don't see much that proves it, and I'm a relatively "high income earner" now. I see lots of people with jobs, maybe not good jobs, and maybe not jobs that have ANY kind of future, but going back to what I said above, there are fixed resources and the economy operates within certain parameters. So what is better, 50 "menial jobs" or 25 "good jobs" and 25 people out of work? I don't have these answers, only to say that I don't see this "lazy class" that the top income earners and republicans always point out. If anything, THESE PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THE MISTAKES, MEDICARE, MEDICADE, EXCESSIVE AND BLOATED DEFENSE CONRACTS AND SOCIAL ENTITLEMENTS OF THE PREVIOUS GENERATION.

The worst of all is when I brought up to my conservative friends that actual tax rates and effective tax rates are two different things because of deductions, shelters, credits, and all sorts of other loopholes. As soon as you bring up that the rich are paying a smaller percentage than middle and even lower incomes, they immediately attack the poor as "not paying enough taxes". This blows my mind every single time. I'm not against a slightly progressive tax system, but we don't have this, no matter what the rates are. I'm also not against a flat-system, but we don't have this either. We have a regressive system considering anyone past EIC and up (the ones too poor to pay taxes AND eat), and that is just flat out wrong, and attacking the "poor" is not going to solve any problems.

We are going over a fiscal cliff because our population exploded and everyone has to have a piece of the pie. Everyone wants two cars. Everyone wants a new house. Everyone wants all these things. If our population was much smaller, it might be much easier to add a lot of value-per-capita. I don't think that's the case anymore.

 

[$tinkle]

apart from significant tax reform, what's missing in our society is something the arab culture has: shame

if we had more shame in our society, we would also have more dignity, and more self-respect. there is no shame in being out-of-work. unfortunately, there is also no shame in being out-of-work, and choosing that path. that should change.

used to be if someone just sat on their ass, they were widely considered a shiftless sack of crap, and it had NOTHING to do w/ political affiliation or ideology.

when teh **** did that change?

jm_: not sure i understand your reasoning that pop explosion has significantly contributed to our fiscal cliff scenario. i see it more of a 'quality -vs- quantity' with our population. also, please explain what your troubles with defense contracts are. seems to me, there's a work-for-money arrangement, not just money-for-the-asking arrangement (i.e., some - not all - entitlement programs). like anything else so large, i'm sure there are exceptions; just looking for what you believe to be the prevailing wisdom on this. yes, i'm a defense contractor, and former military. can't take the time to be offended on your opinion, if it matters.

 

[$tinkle]

The better question is why the fck would someone work for $7.25 an hour? Bonus points for asking someone who claims CEOs will go Galt over a 3% increase in the top marginal tax rate.

i would imagine similar arguments will be made that capping charitable contribution deductions would also directly & immediately lead to the shuttering of many outreach programs (foodbanks, homeless shelters, single family assistance programs, etc.) you know: the poor.

sure, there will always be some significant amount of throw away or expired-in-date-only food to be made available for low income households, but who will now store & distribute if the resources to do that are no longer available (e.g., feed the children, loaves & fishes)? are we to then become a nation of volunteers? certainly not!

in these negotiations, everything's on the table, just not food

 

[jimmydean]

apart from significant tax reform, what's missing in our society is something the arab culture has: shame

Gold Parachute much? 'What about a CEO who runs a company into the ground then when the company folds, he walks away with cash in his pocket? Or worse gets paid a "bonus" + his severance, then walks away from the burning wreckage with cash in his pocket?

Hostess is a great example of how wall street managed to up the CEO pay for unqualified CEO's (from $750k/year to over $2M in 2 years) while cashing out the pensions that EMPLOYEE's paid into before burning the place to the ground.

I have never had a job where I got paid to leave if I did a poor job. This should hold true for ALL JOBS, regardless of title.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I have never had a job where I got paid to leave if I did a poor job. This should hold true for ALL JOBS, regardless of title.

Can a brotha get an AMEN!!

 

[Toshi]

Take a look around at the population. Do you think we can really have everyone work?

What I do see is that there's only so much "stuff" that we can make and buy. I see far more people trying to get jobs than can be supported by an economy.

We are going over a fiscal cliff because our population exploded and everyone has to have a piece of the pie. Everyone wants two cars. Everyone wants a new house. Everyone wants all these things. If our population was much smaller, it might be much easier to add a lot of value-per-capita. I don't think that's the case anymore.

I approve of your general indignation, but disagree a bit with the reasoning here. It seems you're arguing both sides of the coin: that people wanting more than they "deserve", if you will, caused the mess (see subprime crisis from the borrowers' side); AND that people aren't capable of wanting and acquiring enough crap such that we achieve full employment or some approximation thereof.

I suppose both could be true, but it doesn't make for a clean story.

My philosophy is that the governments of the world should all inflate their currencies simultaneously so as to lift the rabbit up by its ears...

 

[$tinkle]

Gold Parachute much? 'What about a CEO who runs a company into the ground then when the company folds, he walks away with cash in his pocket? Or worse gets paid a "bonus" + his severance, then walks away from the burning wreckage with cash in his pocket?

as an HP stock holder from back when i was one of them, i can 100% appreciate the burning with anger over this (losses are enough to put a sizable down payment on a house, or buy a new car w/ all the fixins). unfortunately, it was better to pay off carly, and then mark hurd, than to have a long & protracted legal battle that would further embroil & distract the company.

I have never had a job where I got paid to leave if I did a poor job. This should hold true for ALL JOBS, regardless of title.

if yearly reviews & customer feedback are any indication, i did a great job at HP, then EIM, and i was shown the door (downsizing, then bankruptcy). both defense contracts.

no soup for me either.

 

[SLOPE]

$tinkle makes sense.

 

[Beef Supreme]

i would imagine similar arguments will be made that capping charitable contribution deductions would also directly & immediately lead to the shuttering of many outreach programs (foodbanks, homeless shelters, single family assistance programs, etc.) you know: the poor.

sure, there will always be some significant amount of throw away or expired-in-date-only food to be made available for low income households, but who will now store & distribute if the resources to do that are no longer available (e.g., feed the children, loaves & fishes)? are we to then become a nation of volunteers? certainly not!

in these negotiations, everything's on the table, just not food

I am not sure how this relates to my point but I do agree with you. This is why the Republican tax reform plan is a bad one. Any cap on total deductions is a defacto cap on charitable deductions. Charitable deductions are one of the few deductions that are variable.

 

[jimmydean]

as an HP stock holder from back when i was one of them, i can 100% appreciate the burning with anger over this (losses are enough to put a sizable down payment on a house, or buy a new car w/ all the fixins). unfortunately, it was better to pay off carly, and then mark hurd, than to have a long & protracted legal battle that would further embroil & distract the company.

Why do you have to "pay them off" in the first place? Oregon is a "right to work" state where you can be fired without cause at any time. Why would this not apply to a CEO the same as it does for the lower classes?

I fail to see the NEED to "pay someone off" if they fail at the job they were hired to do. Can them and be done with it.

I also think CEO salaries are out of control, but that has been a growing issue in this country for years.

 

[Jim Mac]

 

[Beef Supreme]

I really hope the Republicans are stupid enough to do this. It will be Doomsday alright, for them.

Republicans are seriously considering a Doomsday Plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. It’s quite simple: House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more: no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes. Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling..

1) Republicans will get no credit for passing middle class tax cuts.
2) Obama needs to play the 14th amendment card on the debt ceiling and wipe out all Republican leverage on that front. The Republicans will have a fit but who would even notice? Let them make the case that America should not pay its bills.
3) Obama can then hammer the Republicans by pushing to restore popular cuts in the sequester. They will have no positive agenda and their obstructionism will be on display.
4) Obama gets to pocket savings on defense that would be politically painful otherwise.
5) The press loves a winner. This would be a major departure from Obama's first term where he got pushed around.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/republican-doomsday-plan-cave-on-taxes-vote-present/

 

[Pesqueeb]

$tinkle makes sense.

The only place this belongs is in the no context thread.

 

[$tinkle]

The only place this belongs is in the no context thread.

i'm test driving a 2013 fusion hybrid on wednesday

 

[Jm_]

Obviously you are a gay hippie libtard communist then, and you realize the battery is going to go out in 6 months and cost $300,000 to replace? I also heard they make the batteries from aborted fetuses.

 

[Polandspring88]

Obviously you are a gay hippie libtard communist then, and you realize the battery is going to go out in 6 months and cost $300,000 to replace? I also heard they make the batteries from aborted fetuses.

Don't forget that the Sync system links to your Obamaphone and the sheet metal is made from melted down guns.

 

[$tinkle]

odd how each day increases my chances of losing my job (that i got only last month), yet at the same time i find myself proportionately drawn toward a new ghey-hippie-libtard car (47/47 city/hwy ftw).

http://goo.gl/93nxz

 

[Jim Mac]

odd how each day increases my chances of losing my job (that i got only last month), yet at the same time i find myself proportionately drawn toward a new ghey-hippie-libtard car (47/47 city/hwy ftw).

http://goo.gl/93nxz

The Lawd works in mysterious ways. I drive a Forester but I'm not a lesbian...at least last time I checked.

 

[stevew]

a new ghey-hippie-libtard car (47/47 city/hwy ftw).

where's syadasti when you need him to sh!t all over mileage numbers...