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Plow bikes

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by William42, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. William42 Active Member

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    For some reason bikes that have good traction and are smooth and don't get overwhelmed easily by bumps have a negative reputation as "plow" bikes. I'm on a session 88 right now, which I like really a lot, but I'm looking for something with more bump absorbing abilities then a low single pivot has to offer. Since the current trend in DH bikes is "lets make it 8 inches of travel and etc etc" I'm looking for bikes that buck this trend. Top of my list are:

    v10
    M6
    M9
    Giant glory (2008-2009 only, don't really want to look at used bikes older then that)

    All of these pedal reasonably well, I'm not SUUUPER interested in getting something like a kona stab, although I know they absorb bumps well, the geometry is just not my thing. Can anybody else think of any good monstertruckin frames?
    #1
  2. daisycutter Active Member

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    And where is Brooklyn on your list?

    v10
    M6
    M9
    Giant glory (2008-2009 only, don't really want to look at used bikes older then that)
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    #2
  3. RayB Member

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    Zerode G1
    Canfield Jedi

    By virtue of their suspension designs.
    Eat r0x.
    #3
  4. ianjenn Active Member

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    Do you live in Santa Barbara?
    #4
  5. William42 Active Member

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    it is in the "too expensive, heavy, and poor geometry, and totally impossible to find used" I guess I should have specified that, but I'm looking for something with decent DH geometry, not old school freeride geometry. I'm under the impression that the brooklyn is like a 67 degree HA but without the benefit the v10 has of being built around 40% sag. I'm also not looking for a sky high BB. The M6 is probably top on my list, since I've ridden one, they have a nice low BB, lots of travel, and can go fast. The glory is doable since it can accept the works headset and I also have ridden one of those.
    #5
  6. William42 Active Member

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    grew up there, I still ride there from time to time when I go home to visit the folks, but nowdays most my riding when I have time is in tahoe.

    I really like the jedi, but there is just something that doesn't quite do it for me, I don't like my wheelbase changing so dramatically. Its harder for my to find that sweet spot in it that makes me feel totally comfortable on a bike. I suspect the zerode would be similar, but I'd be willing to try it. The only downside is that its probably out of my budget.
    #6
  7. Hacktastic Active Member

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    I've almost bought and M6 a couple of times, but the seat-tube interference near bottom-out has always steered me away.

    Plow bikes are awesome. If you can ride a plow bike like a "poppy" bike they're faster than hell and will bail you out of some serious sh*t, where these 35# dancy-prancy bikes won't do you any favors if you ever get off line. Unless you're racing at a pretty high level and you're going to know your exact line on every run, they're silly.
    #7
  8. ianjenn Active Member

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    I will have a used one built soon if you are coming down let me know we can meet you down there with it. The wheelbase growth is not as noticeable on the G1 versus the Jedi. I could meet you in Marin but the rocks on tam and the tickets may not be worth it......

    The build on it will be good and cost as well. Just saying a brand new Dorado in garage now waiting for it.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    #8
  9. RayB Member

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    My best friend is selling his V10c: http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1185474/ (bro price negotiable)

    Of the ones you listed, you're gonna get the best value out of an M6 (my vote) -- assuming you can find one in good condition. Also, you're gonna want a spare set of links. And Loctite/zip-tie your pivot bolts. ;)
    Honestly, 8.5/10 great bike -- has some quirks -- but would ride again. (if I didn't crack it....)

    What exactly is your budget? ($$$$'s)
    #9
  10. demo 9 Active Member

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    Zerode is what u need. I got a frame for sale if your interested-but either way. You need to at least ride one. They really are incredible
    #10
  11. William42 Active Member

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    the v10 carbon would be #1 if money were no issue, but sadly I'm constrained by budget.

    That zerod would be epic ian, I'd really love to pretend it was in my price range, but I can barely afford a dorado let alone one thats attached to an epic bike :D

    Looking in the 1800-2500 range, I found a v10 v3 with a 40 and a couple 2009 glories saint/40's, which all seem priced pretty reasonably. While a sweetass deal on that v10, 4300 is a little more then I can afford.
    #11
  12. ianjenn Active Member

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    That is just a bit short on what I need. But I can still let you ride one just give me notice when you will be in town and we can try and line something up....
    #12
  13. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    v10
    V10
    V10
    V10
    V10
    V10

    It's one of the plowiest bikes I've ridden and if you really really spend some time on setting up the suspension, can also pop in the right places.

    Go ride one.
    #13
  14. William42 Active Member

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    just a bit short?! you gotta be looking for 3 times what I have to spend haha. No doubt the zerode would be sweet, and I love the idea of no ****ing with the drivetrain, despite having worked at a shop for 6 years I am the worlds laziest wrench when it comes to my own bike. Maybe one day when I make more money and I'm not in school I'll be able to afford one :)
    #14
  15. William42 Active Member

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    I've ridden one. I'm leaning towards it right now, its $750 more then the 2009 glory with a 40/saint build on it, and that aint chump change for me.
    #15
  16. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Just steal one from OGripper.

    Everyone else seems to.:hmm:
    #16
  17. Sonic Reducer New Member

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    a couple oddball ideas. none are true plow bikes but do soak up the bumps. all are available used for fairly reasonable prices. you wont get a creampuff 2011/12 bike though.
    rotec RL9
    cove shocker
    morewood makulu
    303WC
    demo 8
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
    #17
  18. RayB Member

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    Very good post.

    I reckon a Rotec RL9 + 1.5* AngleSet would be pretty f***cking fun.



    Also, Cove Shocker is a really underrated bike...
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
    #18
  19. EVRAC Member

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    #19
  20. norbar Active Member

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    Why not an older gen jedi? Or try to look for a deal on the legend (thought but they happen)
    #20
  21. Bedlam New Member

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    I'll just drop this off here:
    Devinci Wilson (-11 and forward)

    Handles the rough like nobodys business and is still pop-able in machine built stuff. Blows the old Glory I had out of the water any day, simply a better performing bike on all accounts IMO.
    #21
  22. Mo(n)arch Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe the new Gambler.
    Should handle the rough well, according a few reviews. Plus you can set it to your favourite geo.
    #22
  23. Udi Active Member

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    Keep in mind bump absorption is a function of leverage curve, travel, and axle path - there's no reason you can't have a well designed ~8" travel bike without excessive CS/WB growth that still absorbs bumps well. There's also no reason that a bike that absorbs bumps well can't be poppy and playful too.

    If you go with the v10, I'd get the carbon - the geometry prior is a bit short/high/steep.
    #23
  24. Nick My name is Nick

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    Curious; why not the '10-'11 Glory? What changed after '09?
    #24
  25. djjohnr Member

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    Just get to Tamalpa within 20 minutes of the gate opening and the rangers are too busy opening the park to deal with you :D
    #25
  26. 0110-M-P Member

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    Canfield Jedi for sure. Damn thing feels like it accelerates as you hit square edges. I know you said that you don't like the extending wheelbase feel of the Jedi, but I'm curious how much time have you spent riding one? Once you ride one for a couple of days, you get used to the extending wheelbase and can actually use it to your benefit...especially popping out of corners as the wheelbase shortens :).

    I think I am about to put my 2010 Jedi frame up for sale to pick up a 2013....so if you are at all interested shoot me a PM.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
    #26
  27. dbozman New Member

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    I've got an '08 Glory, size L, listed on PB for a very reasonable price. Super-clean rig.
    #27
  28. William42 Active Member

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    thanks for the help guys, a few thoughts:

    The jedi is out for me for a few reasons, but each one is enough by itself. Even the older ones cost an arm and a leg, and I'm sticking to a budget. I have ride time on it as well, and even if it wasn't so expensive, it still wouldn't be on the top of my list. While its bump absorbing abilities are great, I just can't get around shifting my balance around so much on a bike, which I feel like I had to with that bike. I'm sure its something I could bring myself to get used to, but there just isn't any reason to. I like bikes that have a natural balance point that doesn't shift around too much. I know the glory has this (used to own one) and I know my session has it. It would be a sideways or downward switch for me based on what I like. Its no doubt an extremely high quality bike, it pedals really well, I'm it gobbles up rocks well, and I'm a confident enough jumper that I have no problems getting it into the air, but it doesn't feel instantly natural, and feels more forced throwing it around off lips of jumps and in corners. It works for some people, and if it does its one of if not the best bike out there, but it isn't for me.

    The zerode is out because 3,000 is the lowest price I have heard of or seen on one, and thats above my budget. I also don't have any ride time on one, and I'm really hesitant to buy a bike I have no ride time on that has such a dramatic wheel path. I worry that it would be similar to the jedi in that regard, and I'm not really willing to throw an extra 500 in over a very nice v10 build for a bike that I have no experience with and have worries about.

    The glory is high on my list because its got a good build, its very inexpensive (around 1800) and I have lots of ride time on one. I know that thing can gobble rocks like fyck and is just easy to ride. the pre-10 ones are on my list, because while I work at a giant shop and could easily get one of the newer ones, I really didn't care for the geometry on the 2010-2011-2012 (went from 9 inches of travel to 8, and the new one feels decidedly steep in the front end, and the TT measurements didn't do it for me. It felt like a pretty standard 8 inch travel DH made for a bit of everything, and I feel like it would be a worse version of what I currently own), and the 2013 is either too expensive for the nice one, or comes with a ****ty build for the low end. Its also back to 8 in of travel.

    Udi, its very possible that an 8 inch travel bike would totally suit my needs. I know the sunday gobbles rocks pretty well, but its a pita to find them and I'd have to deal with a new shock, grinding links, and a whole bunch of other things. I'm pretty willing to bet the pivot phoenix would work for me based on how the sunday feels, but again, I run into price issue. The revolt rode great, but there is no way in hell I'm buying a used revolt. The undead is out of my price range. I'm looking at getting complete bikes with really good builds for the same as most of the FRAMES would cost of all the 8 inch bikes I can think of that do a fair job at monstertruckin. Also, I'm past the point of being a hardcore "shave every second I can and make every little difference I can to the clock" rider. I pull over by the side of the trail to get my breath 2-3 times a run. I'm honest enough with myself to say I'm quick and willing to do decently large jumps/drops/tech, but I am mostly just going for "I want to get a feeling of speed, and I want something that I wont feel so much fatigue from the little bumps over the course of a day of riding. My session is baddass. I really really like it. Its very controlled, its easy as hell to muscle around, it drifts predictably, jumps extremely well, and I'm pretty confident that I'll be faster on it then any of the bikes I'm looking at simply because I feel so comfortable and confident with it. Really I'm just looking for something to cut down on fatigue without giving up too much in the way of having a good time. The v10c would be sweet no doubt, but again, I'm paying for school right now, I'm saving up to pay for a wedding, I have to buy a wedding band, etc etc. I've got other priorities and spending 4-5k on "the best used bike out there" just isn't in the cards for me right now.

    I do worry that the v10 is both high and steep, I've only ridden two of them for a run each, and one of them was setup poorly, but I remember both of them as feeling fairly quick and easy to ride, as well as being a little more regular once its sagged. Would I prefer if it was a 65 degree HA and a 14.0-14.2BB unsagged? absolutely. Do I think I can manage on a 67 with a 14.8? Yeah.

    The rotec is a little to "small brand" for me. Honestly I'd prefer buying something like glory or sc simply because, even if they don't carry that bike anymore, there is a better chance of them finding some spare parts for me if I need them down the line. I have also noticed that bikes from the big companies tend to be more refined in terms of the little details - specialized, sc, trek, giant (to a lesser extent) are all pretty solid at getting their engineers to hammer out all the smaller details that make life easier.
    #28
  29. al-irl Active Member

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    The Morewood Makulu gets a big thumbs up from me, had it for the last 2 years or so and its awesome. Poppy when you need it to be and cant eat the rough with the best of them at the same time. It certainly suits my lack of finesse well and has saved my ass on more times than id like to remember
    #29
  30. djjohnr Member

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    What about a used 303 or Legend?
    #30
  31. PsyCro Member

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    the OP seems to love his Session.. why change it!!? Call up elka, push, avy or whoever you like, and get the suspension working the way you want. The Session is NOT a low pivot.. the axle path isn't as shallow as you might think. Heck the main pivot is about 36 tooth chainring height isn't it ?? That should be perfectly fine. The suspension does ramp up quite a bit though. Get a shock that 'fixes' that, and you're good to go ;)
    #31
  32. djjohnr Member

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    Unfortunately, a shock can't do much about a suspension rate you don't like. It can be optimized for that rate and your style, but if that rate doesn't fit your style, you're SOL.
    #32
  33. EVIL JN Member

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    I found my Nuke Proof Scalp to be very forgiving, it certainly dont feel as bottomless as my v10c in 10" mode but definietly a really well balanced bike in every sense. Monstertrucking or whipping does both really well. I think the kinematics of the linkage works really well, even with a simple shock as a stock Vivid i could not complain. It is also cheap, readily available spares and stout.
    #33
  34. worship_mud New Member

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    and you could say, that you were hip before Sam Hill was! :D
    #34
  35. EVIL JN Member

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    Yep and few months at that, got it in july but maybe Sam had been eyeballing it before that. However i should probably not tell that i had a Demo 8 and sunday before that. Fan boy, hell yes and proud of it:weee:
    #35
  36. descente New Member

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    sounds to me like you need to find a way to stretch the budget.
    #36
  37. demo 9 Active Member

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    this, and not ruling out some of the best bikes for nonsense reasons. (Seriously) Zerode/jedi hate because of having to move your weight? Ive had 3 jedis and a zerode, and havent noticed any different feel. I feel like all the best bike were ruled out of here for illegitimate reasons. RL9 is sick too
    #37
  38. BMCarter New Member

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    My $0.02, so take it for what it's worth. I'm a mid-level 28 y/o expert rider.

    I had a Large 05 V10, setup for pure plow about 4 years ago. Put a CCDB on it and loved it. I set my fastest time on Tunnel on that bike, still yet to beat it, back when I was still racing Sport. (Every other SB trail I'm minutes faster these days).

    Followed that up with a Medium 08 Sunday, setup to plow as much as a Sunday could plow. Had a custom valved RC4 that made the bike come alive. Loved how lively it was, but could still smash when I was in the mood. Was polar opposite to the V10, but I learned how to corner and pick lines on that bike.

    Been riding a Large M9 for the past 3 season. My favorite bike to date. Running the RC4, 9" travel, -1* Angleset. It plows just as hard as the V10 did, but feels more like my Sunday in the corners, pedaling and over jumps. I'm very happy with it. BB is low, but not too low like the M6, geo feels dialed. I have no ride time on the carbon v10s, so I can't compare the 2.

    tl;dr: M9 plows hard, but still is a lively, fun bike.
    #38
  39. Hacktastic Active Member

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    That's still a pretty low pivot point..
    #39
  40. Sandwich just shake your rump

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    FWIW, a well set up 8" bike can still feel super comfortable. This is coming from a non-finesse rider. Set it up right and it'll do wonders without that last inch of travel. The lines between "plow" and "finesse" are a lot blurrier these days.
    #40