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Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by $tinkle, Mar 3, 2004.
over the top?
do these three topics go hand-in-hand?
and i won't even touch this quote:
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Yay! Go girl scouts
In my opinion (ahem...as a one-time Brownie), that's a good role for girl scouts to take....it's not teaching them TO Do those things but is answering questions that most young women have about those things at a time in their life when those questions are most prevalent.
Looks like I need ta go buy myself a box or two of cookies this year
sorry, i can't seem to get my mind right.
"aunt flo" is in town this week.
Just make sure they wash their hands before making those cookies.
don't you mean hand in.....never mind
I'm fine with the scouts teaching it, but let's visit the subject of Sex Ed in general. VD / AIDS? Yes, teach it! Safe sex? Pregnancy... of course.
But teaching homosexuality -- whatever it means to "teach" it -- has no place in any sex ed course. That's just wrong and what the heck does that mean (to teach it), anyway?
Planned Parenthoods dirty, dirty masturbation liturature...erm I mean smut! :devil:
Actually it is quite benign.
Even an article on being a hellbound sinner, I mean homosexuality is pretty much about teaching children to keep an open mind. You would think they were giving out illustrated fellatio how to's in the locker room, the way some people talk...
Talking to Kids About Sexual Orientation
By Susan Motamed
Of Tinky Winky and Tutus
Even though my two sons are still very young (one and two), questions about sexual orientation and gender roles seem to come up all the time.
Take Teletubbies®, for example. Let's just say we didn't ban Tinky Winky at our house. My friend, however, exchanged the Tinky Winky her son received as a gift for a Dipsy doll, because she thought Dipsy was more masculine and more appropriate for a boy.
Then my two-year-old son decided he wanted a tutu. So we bought him one.
The tutu got everybody talking: my father was afraid he would be teased at school for having worn a tutu. Our upstairs neighbors were all for it. My friend was against the idea and didn't want her son to try it on.
Now the tutu lives in the toy chest and is no more or less interesting to my kids than any of their other possessions. But the questions remain: Am I dealing with these issues in the right way? What, then, of my tutu- and Tinky-rejecting friend? As parents, we are immersed in these issues, and it can be hard to know what is the right thing to say and do.
Ask the Expert
I spoke with Michael McGee, vice president of education at Planned Parenthood Federation of America. The first thing I wanted to know was how soon parents should start discussing sexual identity with their children. His answer was, "Start right away."
"Like most conversations about sexuality and relationships," he advised, "the best time will vary from family to family. But some messages parents could give to preschoolers are:
We respect everybody people who are the same and those who are different from us.
It is hurtful to call people names.
People express their affection for each other in many different ways."
From speaking with an expert, I realized that if I want my kids to feel natural about issues of sexuality and gender identity, I should address them naturally, as the opportunity presents itself. "As kids get older," McGee said, "lots of opportunities arise to share your values about sexual orientation and what you personally believe and what your faith preaches. These 'teachable moments' could arise because your child comes to you with questions, or because you see something on television or in the neighborhood.""
My good friend's eight-year-old son recently came home in tears because some kids at school called him "fag" and "homo." My friend saw this name-calling as a "teachable moment," and seized the opportunity to point out that teasing is painful and wrong. She also took the time to calmly explain to her son that those words are derogatory terms for homosexuals men and women who are attracted to people of their own gender. She explained that heterosexuals are sexually attracted to people of the other gender.
Teach By Example
According to Michael McGee, discussions about sexual orientation can just be part of the continuum of teaching children about roles in the family and roles in society. Ordinary childhood moments like when your son says, "Yuck. Dolls are for girls." or, "What do you mean I had a tutu?" provide opportunities to explore gender roles with your child. The point is to stress fairness and flexibility, e.g., if a boy wants to play with a doll, it doesn't make him any less a boy than if he plays with a truck.
Living these values is as important as talking about them. "You want your children to see that you are respectful of differences and can appreciate the skills and abilities that a person has and choices that they make, regardless of their gender or their orientation. We all want to teach our children about valuing fairness and equity," says McGee.
"Some religions believe that same sex behaviors are immoral, and some parents may choose to pass that teaching on to their kids. If that is how you feel," McGee suggests, "I would urge you to also teach respect for different attitudes and beliefs, as long as they are based on ethics, responsibility, justice, equality, and nonviolence." The "golden rule" is a universal value.
Many parents who condemn homosexuality believe in the universal values of respect and kindness. They should stress these values when talking to their children about sexual orientation. So, when we take the opportunity to teach our kids that it is not fair to treat somebody badly because of their skin color, or what country they are from, or if their religion is different from ours, we need to add, "It is wrong to treat people badly because they are gay."
A girl I know started at 10.
I have a difficult time attempting to argue either for or against this issue.
It's the duality of man, we seek enlightenment while we seek carnel pleasure. Are the two issues really different?
The dance required to balance the sublime and devine can kill...
Cabernet Savignion only muddles the issue further.
Amaretto did it for me.
Way to go with the sensationalist headlines $tinkle. You after a career in journalism?
If you're referring to...puberty? That's not such an unusual age these days . Average age is about 10 for girls, I know of some that are 7 or 8 that are "there". It's all those damn hormones and other things put in our foods these days .
If you're referring to masturbating...well that's not that unusual an age for a kid to start trying to figure things out...better to learn that method than others .
if this were my kid, i'd beat him w/ a sockful of nickels.
oh, the humanity!
so that way, we can get this silly age of consent thing abolished. This is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Any act is simply an expression of what's in the mind & heart. I think it's irresponsible to start branding adult issues into kids' inner dwelling. I could barely handle the topic in my teens. Ok, 20's.
that registered sex offender 2 floors up has feelings too.
how can i - as a parent - see this as anything but indoctrination?
the only thing i agree w/
...which comes from the new testament.
even if he's your priest.
Do you disagree with the principles or the subject matter?
Do you feel that people without strong religious beliefs cannot have a strong moral code?
You seem to imply that a parent telling their child their views is indoctrination. Will you not tell your children your views?
since we're evaluating the letter - not the spirit - of my post, i shall tailor my response.
essentially, all things in their age-appropriate time, and from an appropriate authority. My child, being taught by PP, isn't appropriate.
do you see my position as reasonable? If not, how would you improve it to be better for the child?
I think that if a child inquires about it, there is nothing wrong with setting them down with the parents (or maybe even without if the child insists) and discussing the matter.
I don't think it would be right for Girl Scouts to set aside a bunch of girls at once and pass out pamphlets about this kind of subject matter.
I was talking spirit of the post. As I read it, it seemed that you were objecting to parents 'indoctrinating' their children. It also seemed that this was on a moral basis regarding a particular subject - sex and its consequent taboos.
If the authority for a child can be agreed to be its parents then it will be subjective to each parent as to what is appropriate at what time. Of course the capacity of the child to understand will also be a factor.
Whilst the post you were referring to was somewhat PC and sickly there remains some value in the idea of talking to kids about subjects they ask about when they ask about them.
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
Yes, you are right...at least if they do it without parent consent or involvement...
but, when I was in girl scouts, it was pretty much obligatory that ANYTHING we did had some parent involvement or consent...these girls don't just learn to sew and cross stitch and cook these days, so much of what they do does require some form of consent...why risk the lawsuits, y'know? I find it hard to believe that these troops would undertake such "educational" efforts without at least having the parents sign a consent form, in the same manner that a Jr. High School class is required to for Sex Ed in 7th grade.
i use "indoctrination" to apply to non-parent/guardian; sorry for the confusion. And, i don't have a problem w/ sex - some of my best friends have sex, just not w/ me.
not sure i understand what you mean by "cross purposes", but let me offer this observation (inspired by Tenchiro): when i was a wee lad, the last person i wanted talking to me about these matters was my pop. In fact, whenever he told me anything truthful & relevant, i dismissed it absolutely. After careful consideration, i must admit that although the parent should be the preferred authority in delivering this delicate message, it may not be received for the reasons above.
i just don't want my daughter to come home w/ a story that starts off with "one time, at band camp..."
I don't think either of my parents ever told me anything useful about interaction with the opposite sex.
The thought of them trying makes me shudder too!
What kid wants to hear this stuff from their parents? I sure didn't, nor did my parents wanna share with me. But...all the more reason for youth organizations where kids feel safe and trust the elders they are with to take the lead. Most kids will take that kind of information from a role model big time!
For example...my kid brother is 12 years my junior, he's 13 this year, and the little ladies man is dating girls that are 15 and far more well endowed than I am (I look like a 12 year old in comparison to the ta tas some of these girls have).
Mom and Dad have tried really hard to be more open with him about this stuff, because he is so much more active than either my older brother or I ever ever were. They got stuck, and a lot got lost in translation. I was a a guidance counselor in college for rape victims, and routinely worked with college students about the dangers of STDs, how to avoid troublesome incidents, etc etc (got invited to work at Holy Cross once, the local catholic college...boy was that a trip!)...so anyways....they basically gave me the go ahead to answer any questions my brother had.
So periodically he gets invited to come up for the weekend, or come hang with me and my buddies or whatever...and he loves it! What little kid doesn't love it when "cool" biker and snowboard dudes treat him like an equal....and during these trips, little questions always come up, and he and I talk them out...and he feels safe and my parents always know exactly what kind of conversation we had shortly afterwards...and yes, we had the talk about homosexuals vs. heterosexuals a year ago or so...
It's a healthy normal conversation to have with kids, but sometimes it takes a trusted adult to have it with them not always the parents...but the parents need to be involved on some level so they know what's been discussed.