[kidwoo]

I don't know man. Maybe it's because I ride dirtjumpers.........

But I've ridden 60mm- stems on my trail bikes for about a decade now. All this longer reach stuff.......I think it just gave a feeling of stability to people who never really truly feel "stable" at speed. It's good to be able to get back and forward. Stretch that front center measure out too much and you lose a lot of that. Manualing becomes a lower back issue and digging the front wheel down with slacker head angles gets tough.

 

[HAB]

I don't know man. Maybe it's because I ride dirtjumpers.........

But I've ridden 60mm- stems on my trail bikes for about a decade now. All this longer reach stuff.......I think it just gave a feeling of stability to people who never really truly feel "stable" at speed. It's good to be able to get back and forward. Stretch that front center measure out too much and you lose a lot of that. Manualing becomes a lower back issue and digging the front wheel down with slacker head angles gets tough.

I mean you can definitely go too far with it. Like that abomination of a Nicolai that everybody was making fun of at Eurobike. What I like about it though, is that for a given reach, bikes now tend to have shorter seat tubes, which suits my long arms/short legs build well. I've been riding short stems on trail bikes for forever too, but now it's easier for me to find something I like in terms of both reach and standover so that's cool. I actually used a Transition Bottle Rocket as a trail bike for a while because it was long and slack (for 2008 or whatever) and had a pretty short seat tube. It pedaled like ass, but the geometry was cool.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah without getting specific with reach numbers and individual rider height we're about to start going in circles before we realize we're talking about the same thing.

Turner's reach (really wheelbase, I don't even look at reach) for me at 5'8" tends to be pretty good, this one included. Transitions on the other hand are fucking retarded. I rode a medium patrol for a few days and that thing sucked dick. The bike is rad but their sizing is for people who just want to sit there on descents.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Long reach geo just screams 30mm stem to me... But I've never ridden either. Tranny Patrol is on my short list and it's in the long camp. I'm 6' w/ longish legs at 33.3".

(Lul tranny patrol!)

 

[HAB]

Really? I've got some time on a large Scout (I'm 6' tall) and thought it fit normally.

 

[kidwoo]

this exists

Google image search on that is an adventure. I highly suggest/discourage it.

 

[kidwoo]

Really? I've got some time on a large Scout (I'm 6' tall) and thought it fit normally.

Must be a fern spore inhalation thing.

fuckin pnw

Probably a stretched out banana slug viewing scheme while climbing.

 

[HAB]

Must be a fern spore inhalation thing.

fuckin pnw

Probably a stretched out banana slug viewing scheme while climbing.

Could be. It did have a short ass stem on it though. 35mm maybe?

 

[djjohnr]

Transitions on the other hand are fucking retarded. I rode a medium patrol for a few days and that thing sucked dick. The bike is rad but their sizing is for people who just want to sit there on descents.

How tall are you? I'm 5'10" and their medium numbers sound perfect to me w/ a 40-50mm stem, but I'd need a large Turner.

 

[kidwoo]

5'8"

Although I have a bunch of ruptured spine discs now.....I might be 5'7"


My buddy's med patrol seriously felt like a joke. It actually hurt to manual it.

 

[big-ted]

Must be a fern spore inhalation thing.

fuckin pnw

Probably a stretched out banana slug viewing scheme while climbing.

Hey, when you're not having to scratch your nose on the front tire to prevent the front end from pushing through piles of California dust, you can afford to set your bike up with 'proper' geometry...

 

[kidwoo]

Actually longer wheel base trail bikes slide'm up really good like in big radius turns. (true story)


Here's a medium megatrail that I had no problem riding but was the same 'kinda big for me'. I thought it felt better getting slippery.

http://blistergearreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Megatrail-Kevin-rutmaker-RT-1020.jpg

Not real flicky though at speed. Again, I'm going with stability for people who need stability (emotionally).



If anything, shorter bikes fit all that steep and creep shit up in your neck of the woods. Makes 0mph wheelie drops easier eh? I like the bigger wheelbases for wide open speed only. So yeah......not pnw

 

[HAB]

Although I have a bunch of ruptured spine discs now.....I might be 5'7"


My buddy's med patrol seriously felt like a joke. It actually hurt to manual it.

I think I found the problem.

 

[xy9ine]

Transitions on the other hand are fucking retarded. I rode a medium patrol for a few days and that thing sucked dick. The bike is rad but their sizing is for people who just want to sit there on descents.

interesting. i demoed a large (i'm 6/0) and loved it. super playful numbers (for me).

 

[rollertoaster]

I went from a large covert to a large patrol. Don't believe the geo chart. The patrol is smaller (too small). I'm sadly ditching the patrol frame and buying an unrideable, but this time getting an xl.

 

[kidwoo]

DAMN YOU, IT'S THE BIKE THAT AIN'T NIMBLE I TELL YA!

 

[Jeremy R]

How tall are you? I'm 5'10" and their medium numbers sound perfect to me w/ a 40-50mm stem, but I'd need a large Turner.

They are perfect. For me at 5'10, I run a 50 on a medium Scout and it is dialed. For you to at that height to get on a large Turner compared to a medium patrol, you are going to have a TT and reach that is too long, longer chainstays, a higher bb, a starfish hitting seat tube height and just overall a bike that is too big for you. One of my buddies on a Patrol is 5'8 and he runs a medium frame with a 35mm stem, and another buddy on a Patrol is 6'0 even and he rides a large with a 40mm stem. Both are happy on the fit.
I can't speak for everybody but for me the newer geometry bikes are spot on. It allows you to have a bike with a short seat tube, and short chainstays, while also being able to run a really short stem on a bike that you can ride all day comfortably and shred the hell out of downhills on. In the past, they were always compromises to running a short stem. You either went up a size and dealt with it, or rode the right size and felt cramped.
My buddy can manual his Patrol at 30 mph down a fire road, and he has not caught it sucking any dicks yet, but I will tell him to keep an eye out! : )

 

[djjohnr]

For you to at that height to get on a large Turner compared to a medium patrol, you are going to have a TT and reach that is too long, longer chainstays, a higher bb, a starfish hitting seat tube height and just overall a bike that is too big for you.

Huh? A large RFX is listed at 439mm reach (only 9mm longer then a medium Patrol and both of my current FS bikes), 615mm stack (plenty low for me), 18" seat tube and a 17.2" chainstay (similar to my Yeti SB-75). I'd be fine with a 30-40mm stem. Not that I'm going to run out and buy one anytime soon.

 

[kidwoo]

Huh? A large RFX is listed at 439mm reach (only 9mm longer then a medium Patrol and both of my current FS bikes),

Don't listen to him. That fool bought a small dhr once

I was riding bikes that were too big for me years ago.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/threads/07-specialized-demo-7-as-a-dh-race-rig-input-please.186397/#post-2634072



When I say manual, I'm not talking about sustained manuals down roads or smooth bits of trail. I mean instantaneous back wheel drops into holes in the middle of chaos. Definitely a wheelbase thing.

 

[HAB]

Don't listen to him. That fool bought a small dhr once

Is he 4' tall?

 

[thad]

Damn, Kidwoo, you are one non-traditional, edgy, snowflake. It's almost like if a bike is too well received and popular, it is sure to get kidwoo hate.
Newmad = best best EVAR according to pinkbike
Patrol = All mountain bike of the year, according to those cali boys at decline.

I am on a Patrol, XL. I'm 6'2". Bike shreds. It's crazy how close the geo is to my last 26" DH bike. Aside from the fact it has slightly bigger wheels, and steeper seat tube angle. Wheelbase, chainstay length = identical. BB height, 1/4" lower. Head angle, 1 degree steeper. My main complaint is that the BB is almost too low. On the one hand, it makes it incredibly confident in the steeps, and lays over in corners. On the other, catch pedals left right and center climbing, and takes a bit more effort to pull up the front than a bike with higher bb. Trade offs. Works well for me as a bike that replaces my DH and my AM HT. What do I know, tho.

 

[Jeremy R]

Lulz, I raced a small DHR down Mt Snow that year. There might have been like one turn on the whole course. So sketch. I loved that bike though.

I hope people that read our poo that we spew here actually go test ride these bikes and don't listen to what is posted. We are all basically a bunch of crusty ole dudes with specific crap that we like.

 

[kidwoo]

Dang thad, get the shit outcha ears boy!
It's almost like I just said I thought the bike was too big but that I liked it a lot, and then you think that means I don't like the bike. (nomad still suxxors, bang on there)

I absolutely love the patrols. I would just buy a size smaller than what they recommend. And I almost did (well the suppressor with the right sized wheels). Those are seriously about the best horst link bikes I've ever ridden.

I hope people that read our poo that we spew here actually go test ride these bikes and don't listen to what is posted. We are all basically a bunch of crusty ole dudes with specific crap that we like.

^Mostly that.

 

[thad]

. Transitions on the other hand are fucking retarded. I rode a medium patrol for a few days and that thing sucked dick. The bike is rad but their sizing is for people who just want to sit there on descents.

Oh, my mistake. Reading comprehension errar on my part, I must have breezed past the part where your said it's rad, distracted by the "fucking retarded", "sucked dick" and for people that want to sit there on descents.

IMO, it's geo is like a mini DH bike.... I normally don't think of downhillers as people who want to sit there on the DH.

It's geo is actually a bit shorter tt/reach than the Kona Process, the bike that got the whole new school, long, low, slack, short cs, low bb trail bike ball rolling.
Buying a bike with a short reach in 2015 is ALMOST as old fashioned as getting a little wheel bike

 

[jstuhlman]

I don't know man. Maybe it's because I ride dirtjumpers.........

hipster....

 

[StiHacka]

This is the second time in one week when I am hearing that longer reach is not always similar to moar shimz.

Gotta wake up I guess.

 

[kidwoo]

Oh, my mistake. Reading comprehension errar on my part, I must have breezed past the part where your said it's rad, distracted by the "fucking retarded", "sucked dick" and for people that want to sit there on descents.

Apology accepted.

Do better next time.

You make some beautiful scones that taste delicious. I know you're capable of better than that when it comes to ignoring the second sentence in that quote.





did you really just admit your bike choices were fashion based?











damn them scones was good........

 

[Sandwich]

Man, I just disagree with you. A shorter bike is a shorter bike, but I thought the concept was at least partially that you're keeping the same "hand to foot" distance ie extension and reducing the stem length. That keeps you in a good position for riding your bike (like if you were comfortable on a 90mm stem before, now you're just as comfortable with a 50 or 35mm stem) but shortens the stem so that handling improves so you're not way over the front of the bike. The longer wheelbase adds stability and the longer front center lets you move around better BEHIND the front wheel, rather than over it. It's made a big difference for my riding, anyways. It made a HUGE difference on the DH bike, you can carry so much more speed with less risk of things going bad.

 

[kidwoo]

You're right that's definitely the idea. But with slacker headangles thrown in there that already add stability, wheelbases are getting a little excessive IMO.

I'm just fucking around (especially with thad because he rides 29ers). I'm not trying to proselytize, I don't really care. I've just ridden some bikes lately that I thought were too damn long. In my world cockpits have gotten a tad smaller to keep wheelbases manageable about the same with lower and slacker......and that's totally fine. Everybody focuses on the contact points of feet and hands but your bike's footprint on the dirt has just as much or more influence on how it handles underneath you.

Anyway, here are some tits

 

[Sandwich]

thanks. My DH was definitely too long in the cockpit, hurt my back over jumps even though it felt comfortable at other times, so there definitely is a "too long" as some end of the spectrum.

 

[thad]

29" full suspension are super trendy in the PNW right now. No jokes.

Strobel has been on 29" for everything recently, enduro AND DH. And he's not exactly a giant dude.
Lars has been racing the 29" smuggler. I want to say 4 out of top 6 at the cascadia cup enduro finals were on big wheels.
It's crazy how many county DH trail builders have been ditching their DH bikes for that Evil 29". Lotsa shredders on that Process 111. Canfield has a new 150mm 29" coming out.

 

[kidwoo]

They call it the bubble for a reason






You know I love you thad.

 

[StiHacka]

I like where this thread is going!

 

[ianjenn]

I like where this thread is going!

You are welcome...

 

[kidwoo]

Whoa, those have faces and stuff!

 

[SylentK]

When I got my Mega, I thought I finally found a bike that fits. I'm 6'2" with a long torso. Of course I love the long reach. But that's just me. And honestly it feels best out of the saddle climbing/pedaling. No longer does it strain my lower back. On the down, I have plenty of room to move around. I can't tell whether its the long wheelbase or the quasi wagon wheels or the geo. But cornering does feel different. I would like to ride a "normal" reach 27.5 bike and a long reach back to back and see how they compare.

So when Santa Cruz announced that they've lengthened the reach on their new Bronson and 5010, I wanted to see the numbers. My large Mega has the same reach as an XL Bronson. Interesting. Look, it's like I'm Greg Minnaaarrrr!

 

[SylentK]

Oh and boobs.

 

[Sandwich]

please kindly keep the boobs behind the nsfw tag, then you can POSTITS all you want.

 

[kidwoo]

Those aren't tits those are tire racks.

 

[StiHacka]

Praise Jesus!