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No shimano for SX?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by demo 9, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. demo 9 Active Member

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    My SX frameset came in-i took my gold old shimano saint derailleur and threw it on-no dice. Spesh did it again with their stupid drop-outs. It rubs on the demo and wont fit on the SX. It can be adjusted to fit if you run a MTB cassette (or so i believe) But nothin for a road cassette. Tried my backup 105 derailleur and that fits, and works, but upon every bump smashes into the frame, making it sound like a machine gun.

    Am i really unable to run a Short derailleur on a road cassette? How could specialized miss something like this? :eek:

    No saint on a road cassette?

    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=62040&scid=1100&scname=Mountain
    #1 Sep 26, 2011   
  2. insanitylevel9 triple nubby

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    they do use custom sized shocks on some bikes so i wouldnt be suprised
    #2 Sep 26, 2011   
  3. thom9719 New Member

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    If you are using an old saint derrailur, it might have had the little black piece with the two allen screws removed (the one that rests on the bikes hanger). That extension is needed to clear some frames.

    -KT
    #3 Sep 26, 2011   
  4. demo 9 Active Member

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    I guess, i know that they are in sram's pants, but isnt a saint on a road cassette the DH riders' "go to"
    #4 Sep 26, 2011   
  5. insanitylevel9 triple nubby

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    yes, but thats not a dh bike. if you got a sram around try it for the hell of it. also a pic of it with the saint might help as well.
    #5 Sep 26, 2011   
  6. demo 9 Active Member

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    Took it off already, what happens is that in the "high range" it works, but wont shift for ****. Put in in the low range, and when you shift it hits the pivot (inside side of the bottom chainstay) I am just hoping im doing it wrong-im almost so happy with it
    #6 Sep 26, 2011   
  7. insanitylevel9 triple nubby

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    can you get a couple pics? it almost sounds like what mine did when i first put it on.
    #7 Sep 26, 2011   
  8. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    did you properly adjust the b-screw?
    #8 Sep 26, 2011   
  9. demo 9 Active Member

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    yes, i spent about 2 hours on it and couldnt get it to work properly, i guess its possible i could have missed something, but i highly doubt it :(
    #9 Sep 26, 2011   
  10. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    where exactly was it contacting?
    #10 Sep 26, 2011   
  11. demo 9 Active Member

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    It was hitting the chainstay-on the inside (between wheel and frame)

    The problem enlies when it tries to work its way down and "tuck in"

    The choices are to have it in "mtn" mode and have it shift like turd, or to have it in "road" mode and have it hit the frame after 6th gear. 6 speed win?
    #11 Sep 26, 2011   
  12. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    weird. never heard of that before. post pics.
    #12 Sep 26, 2011   
  13. Welshy. New Member

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    I'm running a custom XTR / Saint jobby on my Demo with zero issues. Just get the B tension right and it runs like a freak'n dream.
    #13 Sep 26, 2011   
  14. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    That's because most people adjust their b-tension screw properly.
    #14 Sep 26, 2011   
  15. shiggy New Member

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    Try a Shadow-type Shimano derailleur.
    #15 Sep 26, 2011   
  16. yuroshek New Member

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    Justin, have your mom buy you a new one and try that one. Im sure it would really piss some people off. :D
    #16 Sep 26, 2011   
  17. demo 9 Active Member

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    The problem enlies with the B tension.

    Screw it in, and it pulls the derailleur back (it will now clear) However, the deraileur is now far away from the cassette and now shifts like turd. (with new cable/housing)

    screw it in so it matches the cassette (per instructions) and it wont clear the frame. I will try to get some pics tomorrow-right now the 105 is on it so i can at least cruise around on it.
    #17 Sep 26, 2011   
  18. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    ohh, thought - is your chain length correct? I had a somewhat similar situation once, albeit on a hardtail. der was clanging against the chainstay in the low gears, turned out the chain was too long. took out like 4 links, problem solved.
    #18 Sep 27, 2011   
  19. bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Remove the spring from your shock. Reinstall your shock. Compress it. Set your chain up.
    #19 Sep 27, 2011   
  20. marshalolson Active Member

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    FWIW shimano used to make little rubber boots to minimize the noise of the derailleur flapping around, for the old xt and xtr derailleurs. it should pop on and should work with the 105 rear derailleur if you keep that guy on there.
    #20 Sep 27, 2011   
  21. slyfink Active Member

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    I've got nothin' for ya. I just thought I'd point out that "enlies" is not a word. fwiw, I have a Saint, a Demo 8 and a road cassette, and no problems. It's a known issue with HL bikes that some derailleurs hit the chainstay/pivot assembly, but I thought the new "shadow" configuration was supposed to solve that. Maybe you're due for the new XTR w/ the clutch thingy on it...
    #21 Sep 27, 2011   
  22. yuroshek New Member

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    Remove what spring slappy?
    #22 Sep 27, 2011   
  23. DhDork New Member

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    This ^^ . It's due to the extra forward movement that the old Shimano derailleurs have and the low pivot of the FSR design directly in front of the derailleur. Specialized and Shimano used to come with the black bumper, (similar to what you would see on the shocks on older FSR designs so the seatpost didn't blow a hole through the shock ie. Enduros) and this would either go on the FSR pivot, or the derailleur. Now, the derailleur would still hit, but it would dampen the amount of noise and the damage to both the frame and mech. The new Shadow derailleurs do not have this forward movement, and as a result, you can have cleaner shifting, less chain slap, and no more knocking on FSR designs.
    #23 Sep 27, 2011   
  24. wood booger Member

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    2 hours eh?

    Yet another reason to never drink the water while in NJ.
    #24 Sep 27, 2011   
  25. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    i drink the water. then again, i was like this before i moved here.
    #25 Sep 27, 2011   
  26. bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Oh yeah. It's the net. I need to draw pictures.

    Remove the coil spring from the shock if you're going to properly set the correct chain length. Has this been done as yet?

    He's putting a different derailleur on a bike than was on it prior, so his chain length will be different.

    No sense in setting up all the limit screws and B tension screw if he hasn't got the correct chain length first.

    It's just like when you wipe your arse. You grab the paper and assume there's something back there. Never take your palm and do a dry run first.
    :rolleyes:
    #26 Sep 27, 2011   
  27. Banga New Member

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    Air shock? I think that's what he was getting at.
    #27 Sep 27, 2011   
  28. C4dev New Member

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    Jesus the horst link on the sx is low... There is a good chance that you'll get contact no matter what you do, even with correct b screw adjustment & chain length. I used to have this issue on my Nicolai Lambda with a link that wasn't as low as that. A Shadow or SRAM mech should have no problems, the rubber bumper is just a band-aid Shimano produced to alleviate the problem - it'll still drive you crazy...
    #28 Sep 27, 2011   
  29. DhDork New Member

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    THANK YOU. :thumb:
    #29 Sep 27, 2011   
  30. demo 9 Active Member

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    With deraileur set how it should be-no B tension set for a Road cassette (instructions-correct)

    CAUSES THIS


    if we shove it clockwise we can get a theoretical solution-it appears to work




    While it wont hit the frame, it wont shift either-after even more messing with it and ANOTHER new cable + housing i am left with this as my "best" scenario.

    starting in 9th
    8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1
    (now down)
    Ghost-2-3-4-5-6-7-double(9th)

    The derailur moves when it ghosts, however, no matter how i mess with the limit screws it wont make the shift. I cannot solve this locking out 1 2 or 9. I can reverse the problem to have it double 1 and 2, but i cannot get the double out.


    *i also noticed a possible wormhole to another dimension, the shifter gets more clicks up compared to down. 8 up and 7 down. How is that even possible?

    :crazy:
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
    #30 Sep 27, 2011   
  31. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    check the derailler hanger for proper alignment, and make sure the derailler is straight. i've had both cause the exact ghost shifting issues you described above.
    #31 Sep 27, 2011   
  32. bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Nah...that would be too easy to just say that. It's more fun to leave me f'ing hanging so I type long answers.

    Pretend it's an air shock then...let the air out. :banghead:
    #32 Sep 27, 2011   
  33. C4dev New Member

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    I take back what I said about a shadow mech working, thats TIGHT; though I've never worked with one of the new SAINTs. I really doubt your going to have joy with that one: but why not get the word from the horses mouth and give specialized a call? From what I've seen on here if there's anyone they deserve to give an answer to its you as you probably contribute more to their pensions than anyone else has...

    It's not: do that 9 times in a row tell us what happens, if its still going on and your mech hasn't jammed up then I'll subscribe to your wormhole theory :D (I think your counting may be a bit off, or its not shifting through the range properly cause of you frame/mech contact at the end...)
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
    #33 Sep 27, 2011   
  34. insanitylevel9 triple nubby

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    almost looks like your missing the little black thing that changes derailer to work with different cassettes.
    #34 Sep 27, 2011   
  35. marshalolson Active Member

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    demo 9, can you get away with 1 link shorter chain? that will pull the derailleur down and off the pivot a little bit, and combine that with maybe 1/4 in b-tension?

    i am sure you have tried everything. looks way frustrating.
    #35 Sep 27, 2011   
  36. demo 9 Active Member

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    Got it "working" today. New Derailur, New housing, New shifter cable and routed a different way (skipping the BB cable guide). Still had to set the der up with a cockeyed mounting, but it seems better than it was, works 90% in the stand, about 85% in the street-but i suspect that it will work better when there are bumps and a higher cadence when i actually ride it (bumps/speed will work to "help" it shift)
    #36 Sep 28, 2011   
  37. Dogboy Active Member

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    ^^^Do you have the chip on there?
    #37 Sep 28, 2011   
  38. buildyourown New Member

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    See, the pundits were right. Buying lots of stuff will fix the problem.

    I just put a new XT shadow on my Intense and the geo of that der is completely different from the Saint. The jockey pulley sits way behind the axle CL and even with the B-tension all the way out, there is about a 3/4" gap. Shifts fine though and the spring is much stronger than any other der I've ever installed.

    I think the Saint may be the only Shimano der that would interfere with your bike in that way. I wouldn't hesitate to add enough b-tension to make it clear and run it.
    #38 Sep 30, 2011   
  39. DhDork New Member

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    How's your cassette looking? That sounds like how mine shifts. Ok in the stand, have to shove it a little extra for a couple of shifts in lot, works better when on the trail. FSR, new X9, Road Cassette, fairly new chain, and enough B tension to clear the frame. It's the cassette that's bad, but hardly visible to the untrained eye.
    #39 Sep 30, 2011   

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