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New winter project: Lipstick on a Pig

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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borcester rhymes
Okay, so here's a little breakdown:

Frame: ADR Kaos, circa 2004-2005. Paid $300 for a complete bike
Fork: 2012 888 CR from Wheelworld, $500, new.
Headset: Finagleset, brand new gimbals for $52, used cups $10, used bearings $0
Stem: Specialized Demo direct mount, free for the price of some beers with a bud ($20)
Handlebars: Kore torsion 800mm bars, unborrowed from a friend since he has a newer set
Grips: Originally I was going to un-retire a pair of intense's that I had, but I decided to buy a set of WTB rexagon grips for my dirt jumper, and they ended up being a better fit for the DH bike
Shifter: Leftover XTR 8 speed from a sunday that I sold
Cassette: Leftover XTR 8speed 11-30 from that same sunday
Cable: Leftover XTR. Shifter cables on DH bikes don't see as much wear as other bikes, so I'll try it again with fresh housing this year, provided it fits through the housing.
Pedals: Leftover HT plastics. These were given to me by woody when he attended the taiwan trade show. They are super duper totally rad bro, and I can't believe that people pay more for pedals sometimes.
Cranks: Raceface nawthshawr that came with the bike, 170mm
BB: Something really wide and isis
Chainguide: Purchased from Crabjerr racepants in a group buy with some other stuff, $80 total
Brakes: Brand new XT, purchased from Jenson for $104 a side. These were a tough call, as SLXs are cheaper. The SLX ice tech comes with resin pads, and these came with metal and radiators, so I'm quite happy. I decided to splurge on brakes since I'm slow, and confidence in my brakes has made me faster in the past.
Rotors: Brand new Hayes 8" from jenson for $16. I was tempted to run used rotors, as this is an easy way to save weight, but the notion of brand new, true, thick rotors was too tempting.
Front hub: Leftover hadley from when I sold my brooklyn way back when. Yes, $0.
Rear hub: Sun ringle Lawwill, $80 from bikewagon. 12x150mm, 32 hole, smoking deal
Spokes: Debated for a while on spokes, but wheelsmiths proved to be the absolute cheapest you can buy. They're also high quality steel, and made in the US. That means something to me, but other people don't seem to care. They're regular silver steel, but they built into a nice wheel. $32 @ 0.50 each, from Cambriabike
Nips: Woody was kind enough to build my wheels for the cost of beers and some bike movies. He prefers hex head nips to really build a strong wheel. $0.15 from cambriabike @ 66
Rims: Some time ago, I asked about these rims for DH use. Lukewarm response at best. Still, they were sitting in my closet for free, so I decided to build them up. On paper, they make some sense. They are 22mm wide inside, and weigh 560g, so they're very close to a mavic 521. I've ridden them with high tire pressure previously with fine results, but gazzalodis and 32psi does not indicate a strong rim.
Tires: I purchased 2.7" DHFs from Huckntroll for $40 a piece for my last bike. When I sold them, I kept these tires and put the original tires that came with it back on. They're basically like new.
Shock: Avalanche DHS purchased from Dan-o. 8.5x2.5 for a short shock configuration. Should give me 8.2" of travel. 2.5" of stroke for 8" of travel isn't a great leverage rate, but if any shock can handle it, it's the DHS. Kind of a pig in weight, it should be able to handle anything I throw at it. I'll probably have to have it reshimmed as the rebound is too slow for my liking, but I want to ride it first.
Shock bushings: Offset bushing from proshox on ebay. Still haven't received these though I ordered midway through january. I hope they show up.

Once the bushings are in, I'll have the rest put together. Right now it sits kind of sad in the basement.

Numbers so far:
Chainstay @ 17.0"
headtube at 63.5-64* with a crappy cell phone level
BB @ 14.5". Kind of a disappointing number, and it won't get any better, but I did the maffs and if I lean the bike over at 4*, I'm at 13.9" :D
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
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props for going for it and being honest about the numbers- even the "disappointing" ones. You found some awesome deals along he way- performance on the cheap can be pretty gratifying. Looking forward to hearing how that it rides!
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
I'm not terribly afraid of the high bottom bracket. The bike rode OK with whatever was on it before...and it had a longer stroke shock and a steep head angle. It feels really comfortable sitting on it static. I imagine it'll be pretty cool once it's all together and ridden. I may try and pursue something more funky with the shock, like a drilled hole. If I can lower it even further, I'll have a nice low BB, and I have plenty of clearance between the shock and seat tube/saddle.

I forgot to mention my cheat. When I picked up the bike for $300, it came with a DBR strike frame and a broken 888. I traded the 888 for an older boxxer, then swapped over a bunch of the parts I didn't want from the ADR to that bike and sold it off, tremendously offsetting the cost of this project. Some of crabjeo's parts also made it onto that bike. It ended up also being short shocked, and I had to buy a drop crown for it, but it ended up having awesome numbers, 13.1" BB, 63* HA, albeit with long stays, and it rode super nice. I thought about keeping it, but wanted to trek through with the ADR instead.

 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
I'm not terribly afraid of the high bottom bracket. The bike rode OK with whatever was on it before...and it had a longer stroke shock and a steep head angle. It feels really comfortable sitting on it static. I imagine it'll be pretty cool once it's all together and ridden. I may try and pursue something more funky with the shock, like a drilled hole. If I can lower it even further, I'll have a nice low BB, and I have plenty of clearance between the shock and seat tube/saddle.

I forgot to mention my cheat. When I picked up the bike for $300, it came with a DBR strike frame and a broken 888. I traded the 888 for an older boxxer, then swapped over a bunch of the parts I didn't want from the ADR to that bike and sold it off, tremendously offsetting the cost of this project. Some of crabjeo's parts also made it onto that bike. It ended up also being short shocked, and I had to buy a drop crown for it, but it ended up having awesome numbers, 13.1" BB, 63* HA, albeit with long stays, and it rode super nice. I thought about keeping it, but wanted to trek through with the ADR instead.

At first I thought this bike was the Kaos, and was thinking "Jeez, this used to look good in those other pictures." Then I read them "words" up at the top of the post.:rofl:
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
haha, the DBR wasn't a bad bike. It had a huge headtube, so a drop stem would be nice, and some wider bars, but it sure rode OK.

The Kaos is getting closer...I still don't have my bushings, and am comtemplating purchasing a used CCDB to replace the avalanche, as the avalanche needs a revalve @ $125. If i can find an older CCDB, I should be able to tune it to my frame for less money.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
The one on the dbr was a 321/parallax hub, or something. Super nice rim. Back was an atomlab. On the ADR are velocity cliffhangers.
 

ICEBALL585

Bacontard
Sep 8, 2009
6,803
2,038
.:585:.
I forgot to mention my cheat. When I picked up the bike for $300, it came with a DBR strike frame and a broken 888. I traded the 888 for an older boxxer, then swapped over a bunch of the parts I didn't want from the ADR to that bike and sold it off, tremendously offsetting the cost of this project. Some of crabjeo's parts also made it onto that bike. It ended up also being short shocked, and I had to buy a drop crown for it, but it ended up having awesome numbers, 13.1" BB, 63* HA, albeit with long stays, and it rode super nice. I thought about keeping it, but wanted to trek through with the ADR instead.
Ah so now the truth comes out... I bought your spare parts bike. :rofl:

Just kidding, it should be a fun bike for me to play around with. I am planning on putting a longer handlebar on it as soon as Spring hits and I can actually ride it.


FYI to everyone... I was one who bought this bike from Sammich.
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
Awwwww, it wasn't supposed to be a ripoff or scam or anything! I think that's a solid bike...I wouldn't have sold it to you if it wasn't.
 

ICEBALL585

Bacontard
Sep 8, 2009
6,803
2,038
.:585:.
I know, I'm just bustin your chops. I'm looking forward to getting out on it instead of just riding it around my yard & driveway.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
45.2 lbs on the scale-scale method. Not good, but not as bad as it could be I suppose. It has fat tires, real tubes, and legitimate suspension. I think it could be lightened with a different shock (-200g, 0.5lb), a lighter fork (-1-0.5lb), ti spring, lighter cranks, post, carbon floater...etc. I was not/am not concerned with weight on this bike. My sunday came in at around 42 with an air boxxer...I'd gladly sacrifice 3 lbs for lower maintenance.

I finally got my shock pins in. Took a while but they are very nice quality. Re-measured the BB height and it sits at 14.25", which is just barely RM approved. I have yet to remeasure HA, but it should still be around 64.

I may yet try to get more crazy with it. I think if I had a pair of -1.5* headset cups, I could go -3*, and a shock like a fox or Cane creek has wider eyelets that can get even more extreme offset hardware. The avalanche was limited to 0.9mm per side, whereas the fox 12.7mm eyelet can go 1.5mm. I think I'll ride it first, as I don't need a scraper bike and too slack on the HA and I won't be able to control it, as I found with the Sunday at 63.5*.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
Got out on it this weekend, not enough to really have any significance, but enough to test things out.

One thing is for sure: I can't believe people pay money for rock shox products. This fork, though not even broken in yet and potentially undersprung for my weight, with minimal tuning to damping aside from setting the rebound, outperforms both my worn in and brand new Boxxers. The action is supple, smooth, and small bump absorption is phenomenal. It dives heavy under braking and I don't have enough steep sections nor prolonged rock gardens to test its potential, but just in the short time I've ridden it, I can tell that I'm going to be fairly pleased with it.

Handling is good, the head angle is right about where I want it. Any slack and I think I'd be unhappy.

Brakes are good but not phenomenal. I haven't had them anywhere near a hill so all I can really report is that they stop me, and they squeal a bit.

The biggest thing I've noticed so far is how well the bike accelerates. I'm thoroughly surprised at how it moves forward. For a bike with a pivot lower than the chainring, and no fancy patents, it moves quick. It feels like my sunday did, which is a surprise. Just a firm, bob-free platform under power.

I've got to wait for the snow to melt a bit more before I can push it at all...but I'm excited.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
So a little update; got up to highland for opening weekend (which was a zoo) and the bike performed pretty admirably for $800. The suspension is really quite phenomenal. Highland's traffic has washed away much of the dirt, and the rocky sections have become unrelenting, which is a good place to test a suspension. The fork is pretty great; the damper is decent and I'm not using full travel, even with three clicks of compression and a medium spring. Something tells me that'll change as speeds increase on more DH oriented trails. The brakes are awesome. For the price, I honestly can't believe people would choose anything else. Power comes on strong with smooth modulation and utter confidence. Again, highland is a pretty brake-friendly place so the real test will be at one of the steeper mountains, but the XTs were instantly comfortable.

The geometry is going to take some getting used to. The bike is fairly short and I was knocking my knees on the crowns in some of the flat sections, and the bike definitely has the sensation of a high BB. I don't think it's problematic, it could just be better. Having previously ridden a sunday with an angleset, that might be part of the reason. The weight seems to fade away while riding, which I'm pretty happy with, as the bike is no featherweight. I wish I could have gotten more runs in to push the bike a bit, but the lift was packed and a single run was taking 45 minutes.
 

Ipsec

Chimp
Oct 24, 2012
7
0
Glad to hear the CR is working out for you so far. I was pretty impressed with what the fork can do considering it's technically a budget fork.

I recently changed brakes to the same XTs with cooling fin pads on my Aurum. Got too good of a deal on front and rear to pass up, and I have to say I'm sold on them over my Codes. I think I'm now a Shimano convert thanks to the lever feel. Still running my same Avid rotors, and I have no complaints so far.

Look forward to more updates as you get to ride it more. Maybe I'll catch you up at Highland some weekend.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
Thanks for staying tuned...

Yeah the CR is decent. I'm extremely impressed with the smooth action of the fork. Small bump compliance is superb to my RS and previous zokes products. I long for a high speed compression adjustment, but the low speed works relatively well.

I have my brakes on hayes rotors. They make and awesome zipping sound when slowing down too.

I'd love to meet up at highland. I have a pretty bad fear of flying that I'm trying to break with my new dirt jumper...we'll see.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
Funtime update!

Got some great riding in this weekend at plattekill. Told me a lot about the bike.

#1, this fork is awesome. I'm using full travel but not regularly. It's a little divey under heavy braking but stays composed on the trail. I've been tempted to get the heavy spring, but the fork feels progressive enough that I'd probably have to reduce that in order to bump up a spring rate, which may not change things for the better. I'm still very pleased with it.

#2 The frame is decent but not crazy smooth. I love the feeling of the floating linkage as plattekill is steep enough that you're on the brakes almost constantly. The lower pivot height than I'm accustomed to pinged off square rocks more than I'd like, but I'm not flatting with decently low tire pressure, so I'm pretty happy.

#3, the brakes are phenomenal. Plattederp puts the hurt on brakes, and the XTs were up to the task all weekend long. Lots of power, reasonable bite, and decent fade resistance. I noticed a little bit of bump up, but that seemed to go away later in the day. The radiators got hot but not "ow my finger" hot. These are the best deal going in brakes- if you're a hack like me that rides your brakes constantly, get some. FWIW, I had saint 810s before this, and while those were more powerful, these are just as fade resistant with more comfort at the lever.

#4 Damn these bars are low. I had these on my Sunday and they were really quite comfortable, but I'm running almost an extra inch (3/4) at the bottom bracket, so now I feel pretty hunched over. The stem is also a little bit lower than my sunline, I think. I'll need to get a higher rise stem or higher rise bars to get a more comfortable position. It wasn't bad handling wise, but comfort was lacking.

I'm really pleased with this project and I'm thrilled that the price was so low. this is one of my favorite bikes so far as it approaches the handling of the fantastic sunday, but is a bit more comfortable with the brakes on, and seems to move through its travel with more control/ie progressivity, but doesn't pedal nearly as well. I also need a new derailleur, as the 96 LX is just not up to snuff.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
Oh also, my angleset DOES NOT CLICK. yay! Maybe whatever they added to the one cup I'm using worked (cutouts and thickness were different).