[norbar]

Had to use a hated term but I'm thinking about a 150-160mm bike for me and my ladyfriend. To be honest most of the bikes I have tried felt pretty high in the bb department. Knolly Warden in the higher 347mm setting felt neutral but like it could go lower (and it can). I will probably climb up on fireroads and go down on technical trails, no plans on doing technical rocky xc climbs so I don't think I need uber clearance.


GG megatrail seems like a good option but I need to know what other are there, preferably ones you can buy outside of US.
Spesh stumpy would be nice if it wasn't so butt ugly (the 650b version)
Banshee's are nice but with 650b wheels they are fairly high in the bb area.
Knolly Warden is an option but it is rather expensive.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Maybe the Giant Trance Sx does the trick for you. BB drop = -11mm.
They are also on the cheaper side of enderpo bikes.

The Canyon 9.0 EX should also be a great offer. BB drop= -17mm.
Maybe a little less capable and slack then the Giant.

 

[norbar]

Maybe the Giant Trance Sx does the trick for you. BB drop = -11mm.
They are also on the cheaper side of enderpo bikes.

The Canyon 9.0 EX should also be a great offer. BB drop= -17mm.
Maybe a little less capable and slack then the Giant.

Does anyone know what -11mm bb drop translate to on a 650b? IRL not e-calculated?

Both are on my shortlist though. Wish the giant had a bit better spec but it is an awesome bike.

 

[kidwoo]

There are tons of bikes coming out with 13.5" bbs on 650s. That's just below axle line. I'm getting ready to get a norco range and put 26s on it. Should be about 13 even.

Nomad
Range
specialized sj evo (26 only)
pivot mach 6

Those are some of the ones I was looking at. Look at the product->trailbikes link on vital. They reviewed a bunch of bikes this year and list the BB heights.

 

[wydopen]

Had to use a hated term but I'm thinking about a 150-160mm bike for me and my ladyfriend. To be honest most of the bikes I have tried felt pretty high in the bb department. Knolly Warden in the higher 347mm setting felt neutral but like it could go lower (and it can). I will probably climb up on fireroads and go down on technical trails, no plans on doing technical rocky xc climbs so I don't think I need uber clearance.


GG megatrail seems like a good option but I need to know what other are there, preferably ones you can buy outside of US.
Spesh stumpy would be nice if it wasn't so butt ugly (the 650b version)
Banshee's are nice but with 650b wheels they are fairly high in the bb area.
Knolly Warden is an option but it is rather expensive.

When I decided to get a new frame I looked at all the options..it seemed like with the majority of them you were making a compromise in some way..

longish chainstays or a short toptube or a HA that wasnt quite slack enough..very few bikes ticked all the boxes for me...I went with the megatrail because I honestly think the seemingly extreme geo #s is what will be on the major manufactures bikes in a few years..It will prob happen slowly but Im sure they will catch on..

For example I tested a Intense Tracer 275...to get the right reach on a medium (which I should be riding) it had an 80mm stem on it which is not what I want to run....I ended up trying the large which was too big for me in other places to get the reach correct with a 50mm stem...the bike felt plenty low in the bb but I felt it could definitely be slacker..

It pedaled/climbed insanely well...so well in fact that you could barley even tell when the pedal lever on the shock was flipped..Thats fine if you are riding flowing up and down terrain but the awesome pedal performance means a big compromise in small bump and rear end traction on the way down...personally for me I would rather have a bike thats pedaling performance relies more on the shocks lever and is more tuned for downhill performance when its turned off...thats why Im happy to get back on a singlepivot with a good shock..

 

[norbar]

When I decided to get a new frame I looked at all the options..it seemed like with the majority of them you were making a compromise in some way..

longish chainstays or a short toptube or a HA that wasnt quite slack enough..very few bikes ticked all the boxes for me...I went with the megatrail because I honestly think the seemingly extreme geo #s is what will be on the major manufactures bikes in a few years..It will prob happen slowly but Im sure they will catch on..

For example I tested a Intense Tracer 275...to get the right reach on a medium (which I should be riding) it had an 80mm stem on it which is not what I want to run....I ended up trying the large which was too big for me in other places to get the reach correct with a 50mm stem...the bike felt plenty low in the bb but I felt could definitely be slacker..

It pedaled/climbed insanely well...so well in fact that you could barley even tell when the pedal lever on the shock was flipped..Thats fine if you are riding flowing up and down terrain but the awesome pedal performance means a big compromise in small bump and rear end traction on the way down...personally for me I would rather have a bike thats pedaling performance relies more on the shocks lever and is more tuned for downhill performance when its turned off...thats why Im happy to get back on a singlepivot with a good shock..

Pedaling performance has nothing to do with rear end traction. Yes chain tension that comes from a rearward axle path may feel like the bike is less supple but if that influenced downhill traction and performance we would all be riding bb pivots. Do you work for Morpheus bikes or sth?


@Kidwoo - big thanks. Range looks nice, Nomad I need to see the local price, pivot will probably be stupid expensive in EU.

 

[kidwoo]

@Kidwoo - big thanks. Range looks nice, Nomad I need to see the local price, pivot will probably be stupid expensive in EU.

Seriously man just start looking. I was amazed at how many bikes are out this year that are pretty much exactly what you describe. They're everywhere I tell ya!

 

[norbar]

Seriously man just start looking. I was amazed at how many bikes are out this year that are pretty much exactly what you describe. They're everywhere I tell ya!

The locals think high bb is necessary since enduro here is basicly long travel xc so that had me a bit confused. You would be surprised what the locals say about the bb height they need. Hardcore uphill is aparently a thing here. Will look around.

 

[Dogboy]

There are tons of bikes coming out with 13.5" bbs on 650s. That's just below axle line. I'm getting ready to get a norco range and put 26s on it. Should be about 13 even.

A good reference point for a 650 axle line is 14.1" on a 2.3 High Roller II.

Another sick bike with a little less travel is the new GT Sensor. 12.75" (measured) BB height at 130mm travel front and rear. A 150mm Pike gets the BB up to a hair under 13" and the HA at a little over 67 degrees.

 

[wydopen]

Pedaling performance has nothing to do with rear end traction. Yes chain tension that comes from a rearward axle path may feel like the bike is less supple but if that influenced downhill traction and performance we would all be riding bb pivots. Do you work for Morpheus bikes or sth?


@Kidwoo - big thanks. Range looks nice, Nomad I need to see the local price, pivot will probably be stupid expensive in EU.

Im not a bike engineer I was explaining how the bike felt...didnt feel supple at all..but it felt like all the energy you put into the pedals went to the rear wheel but you felt all the small bumps.... the rear wheel wasnt following the terrain = not as much traction

thats how the bike felt on the trail..not the internet

 

[kickstand]

I saw the stumpjumper evo mentioned. I have a standard stumpy I put a 150mm fork on, I don't know much about geometry and numbers and all that jazz. I bought it as my main XC/trail bike. I also bought my wife one. Hers still sits at 140mm up front though.

I am notoriously bad about hitting my pedals on the trails. The stumpy seems to bit pedals a bit more than my previous xc/trail bike (trek fuel ex with 120mm rear travel and 130/140/150mm forks on it).

First ride around the neighborhood on the stumpy I did not like it, at all.

First trail ride on the stumpy and I absolutely loved it. Very happy with its playful nature descending, climbs very well, and it allowed me to carve corners very well (weakest part of my riding by far).

Only mods are a single ring up front, 60mm stem instead of stock 75mm and a 150mm fork. Feels very good to me now.

 

[Sandwich]

What about the Spec #enduro? Plus it comes in 26 so you can keep your pinkbike/RM/vitrial street cred. Not sure why you'd want an enduro bike but would consider the stump over trenduro. There's also the camber evo, which was highly regarded on the bike review video thingees.

 

[norbar]

Enduro seemss too big and heavy. I'd also avoid spesh if i could. I like the geo and the looks of the 26'' stumpy (27.5one is super ugly thuough) but they are unreasonably expensive here and I'm not a fan of how they perform business. 650b would be a plus one because I don't want to be forced to change in 2-3 years when I can't buy spare tires and rims in resorts because all rent bikes are 650b.

 

[kidwoo]

What about the Spec #enduro?

bb too high

 

[aenema]

The new Canfield Balance looks promising but not out until end of July. I have a Banshee Spitfire in 26 inch mode but it comes with the adjustable dropout chips that can get the bb lower than I would want. I am running in the neutral setting now and it is as low as I want to go. With the bigger wheels, I bet the lowest setting would be pretty sweet for the non chunder pedaling trails.

 

[MinorThreat]

My Yeti SB66 is published as 13.5 and feels like it's riding lower than that. It sags into that 6" of travel and is giving me fits with pedal strikes. Have had a handdful now that have stopped me dead in my tracks. Talked with the Canfield folks at the PA ProGRT because I'm hoping Crampons will alleviate some of that. You want low and slack, look at the SB.

 

[Sandwich]

bb too high

Well lukkit that. The e29 is 13.2, so I was going off that. Nevermind.

 

[mattmatt86]

Kona Process 153? I think the BB is around 13" and it has a super low stand over which is usually good for the ladies. I'm riding the Process 111 and it's the most fun bike I've ever owned.

 

[weedkilla]

My demo on a kona process 153 made me think it won the "most needing to go on a diet" prize. Felt like an old school (lol) 6" travel 26er. Capable, but fat. Seemed like a great bike in need of a wheel upgrade out of the box.
Trance sx was quite the opposite - felt much more lively and fun. Didn't seem much of a trade off in the big stuff.

 

[HardtailHack]

Production Privee Shan, hahaha!

 

[Zark]

My Bronson is sitting at 13.5". Lower than published 13.7". Feels like a good spot for my riding.

 

[csermonet]

does static bb height really matter that much? i imagine if two different bikes stated static bb height is within .3 of an inch, that it would be hard to tell the difference. i would imagine sag plays a big role, 15-30% sag would make bb height vary greatly

 

[norbar]

does static bb height really matter that much? i imagine if two different bikes stated static bb height is within .3 of an inch, that it would be hard to tell the difference. i would imagine sag plays a big role, 15-30% sag would make bb height vary greatly

We have to use some data to compare them and I assume I use the same sag no matter the bike I choose (unless it's something strange).

On a more related topic. Has anyone tried the Cube, Propain or Focus? They all seem to be priced competively.

Jonesy seems to love the cubes

This seems like a downhill bike in geo (very long and

Can't find any info on the propain:

 

[supercow]

Production Privee Shan, hahaha!

Good taste sir

 

[Sandwich]

that focus looks awesome, a lot like the process, and that's a compliment. I'd much rather have that tidy linkage than the stupid strut any day of the week.

 

[slimshady]

A friend of mine bought a Propain about a month ago, when he traveled to Germany. I haven't had much time on the bike (just a couple of minutes on the parking lot near our local trails, and the suspensions were set too soft for me), but the site lists the BB height at 13.4". Apart from that, I really liked the way it handles. It's not too heavy (by today's standards) and it feels poppy enough.

 

[norbar]

that focus looks awesome, a lot like the process, and that's a compliment. I'd much rather have that tidy linkage than the stupid strut any day of the week.

Yup. It's not the cheapest but it's not stupid expensive and the germans have a good 2nd hand market with a lot of the bikes being barely ridden.

A friend of mine bought a Propain about a month ago, when he traveled to Germany. I haven't had much time on the bike (just a couple of minutes on the parking lot near our local trails, and the suspensions were set too soft for me), but the site lists the BB height at 13.4". Apart from that, I really liked the way it handles. It's not too heavy (by today's standards) and it feels poppy enough.

The 650b version? On paper it looks similar to the focus (although it is way uglier ) and it is considerably cheaper.

 

[Dogboy]

If you are looking for something with a truly low BB in the 150/160mm travel range, you should be looking at something with around 12mm BB drop at a minimum. These 650 bikes with 7mm or so of drop are going to yield like a 13.75" BB height.

 

[HardtailHack]

Too much money?

http://www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes-2014/bike-detail/amr-riot-lector-5/

 

[Dogboy]

does static bb height really matter that much? i imagine if two different bikes stated static bb height is within .3 of an inch, that it would be hard to tell the difference. i would imagine sag plays a big role, 15-30% sag would make bb height vary greatly

Sure it matters, especially if the bikes being compared have the same amount of travel (or really close). Like Norbar says, he is going to run roughly the same amount of sag on whatever the bike is, so the static number is relevant.

 

[kidwoo]

Here's the first thing I do when looking at bikes, hopefully with a good side pic taken down low. You can look through the BB spindle to see how head on it is.

You can at least get some good built up comparisons that have nothing to do with tire size. It's essentially looking at the bb drop built into the frame. I've got a bunch of these.



embiggen so you can see the line I drew

 

[rollertoaster]

I really dig the new process line of konas, but it's true the stock wheelsets are crap. I'm waiting on a light bike carbon wheelset to arrive for my 134dl.
I also love my Covert 26 which I converted to 650b. It has a 0.5" bb drop and 65 degree HA with my custom dropouts and 1 offset shock bushing.

 

[norbar]

Too much money?

http://www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes-2014/bike-detail/amr-riot-lector-5/

Mint looking but 68deg head angle?

Propain looks decent in the geo and price departments. You guys see anything unusual?
http://www.propain-bikes.com/en/shop/Enduro+Bike+TYEE++-36/

I can also get an MDE Carver 7 and supposedly they get custom geo.

 

[HardtailHack]

My hardtail has 37mm BB drop and 26" wheels, it's pretty amazing how much **** you smack with the pedals until you get used to back pedalling here and there.

EDIT-

Mint looking but 68deg head angle?

I'm starting to think that with the advancements in suspension performance and the slightly larger wheel you don't need the super slackness we are now used to(I know most wouldn't agree). Also going super slack is fine if your fitness is at 100% and you ride aggressively from start to finish but a steeper HA allows the odd brain fart on the XC stuff without the front washing out.

I was worried with my current HT frame, with sag it sits at around 68.5 but with the super low BB and an Avy equipped fork it is pretty bloody good. I am happy enough that I'll enter a couple of DH races later in the year, I may still get a 1 Deg set but I was originally thinking I'd need 2 but it would kill the playful nature of the frame.

 

[norbar]

Rode a few rentbikes in Madeira and anything over 68deg is just bad on the steeps and I like the steeps.

 

[Sandwich]

I'm starting to think that with the advancements in suspension performance and the slightly larger wheel you don't need the super slackness we are now used to(I know most wouldn't agree).

It's definitely worth considering going up a half to a full degree in HTA when considering larger wheels just due to trail difference alone. ie a 65 would be a 66 with 650b, and 67 with 29" wheels. If you change offset then you can use the same HTA, but handling gets weird (slower) with slack head angles and big wheels.

 

[norbar]

Didn't notice Knolly Warden being very slow. Rode it in 67 setting and it rode the same as my 66.7 trailbike. I would buy it if it wasn't so stupid expensive.

 

[Sandwich]

was the fork 650b specific/did it have additional offset? doesn't need much, 5mm is usually about right.

still, the difference isn't huge, but if you're talking about a from-scratch approach, bigger wheels definitely are a consideration in handling.

 

[norbar]

I think yes it was a 650b specific fork but I can't be sure.

 

[HardtailHack]

That's cool, you know exactly what you want then.

Nox, bit weird for you? 13mm BB drop 66.5 deg HA-

http://noxcycles.com/index.php/en/products-en/enduro-trail/bike-edt-5-9-sl-comp-m-detail

EDIT, Merida is only 10mm drop but would no doubt be pretty cheap.

http://2014.merida-bikes.com/en_int/bikes/2014/One-Sixty+5-171.html