[Dh builder]

I have a noise coming from my cane creek 40 headset. it isn't a squeaking noise but like a plastic kind of rubbing / clicking noise, I can hear it multiple times per second while riding. It happens easily if I press the front brake and rock the bike back and forth. I don't hear it much if I compress the front fork. But I hear it when I ride constantly.

My best guess would be the noise is somehow coming from where the crown meets the headset. But there is no noticeable play in this area.

I already greased all my bolts on fork and stem and it didn't fix the problem.

Why I am sure it is my headset is because as I tightened down my stem cap bolt, I heard the noise as the headset tightened and it seemed the more I tightened it down the less it would make the noise as I rocked the bike.

I thought I got it tight as the sound seemed to have gone away in my garage, but when I started to ride again it must have loosened up or something because the sound came back.

What I have difficulty with is the upper fork crown doesn't move easily even with the bolts are fully loosened.

1) My question is should I loosen my lower crown also before I tighten the stem cap bolt?

2) Do I need to grease the upper and lower crown where it makes contact with the head set?

3) Since the noise seems to go away the tighter I make the stem bolt, can I go as tight as I want as long as the steering is loose?

Thanks

 

[rollertoaster]

Those 40 series headsets suck. I have 2 and they are both noisey , which is unfortunate because they have a nice low stack height. I have found that the grease that they use is too thin and works it's way out. Pop out the bearing seals and regrease with something thicker and the noise usually subsides.

 

[csermonet]

1) My question is should I loosen my lower crown also before I tighten the stem cap bolt?

2) Do I need to grease the upper and lower crown where it makes contact with the head set?

3) Since the noise seems to go away the tighter I make the stem bolt, can I go as tight as I want as long as the steering is loose?

Thanks

Dual crowns can be quite annoying to eliminate creaking.

1) No, the lower crown does not need to be loose. The steerer tube is pressed into the lower crown assembly and the clamping bolts do not have any correlation to headset tension(stem cap bolt). The upper crown DOES need to be loose when setting headset tension. If using a steer tube mounted stem, make sure the stem is loosened as well.

2) You don't "need" too, but it doesn't hurt.

3) Yes, you can tighten the stem cap bolt as tight as possible, as long as the steering is still "loose".

All my bikes are extremely quiet, my trick to prevent squeaks is to grease EVERY bolt, whilst making sure they are all tightened to the proper torque spec. My advice to eliminate a squeak from the crown/headset area, is to grease all bolt threads, grease the inside of the crown where the stanchions slip through, grease headset bearings, grease stem bots, grease nut and bolt in that area of the bike. You can wipe any excess off when you are done with reassembly. Then, if you have access to a torque wrench, make sure to torque all bolts to the proper spec. If you don't have a torque wrench, get one, it will be money well spent. Torque specs are easy to find online, alot of them these days are marked directly on the component. You will surprised how tight some things need to be, and how loose others need to be. My bike got much quieter when I started using a torque wrench

 

[HardtailHack]

May sound like a stupid question, have you undone the centre bolt on the upper crown before tightening the headset and is there any chance the top cap is hitting the steerer as some sit deeper in the stem/crown than others?

 

[Sugar_brad]

A rubber or plastic mallet would help you a lot. You can loosen the crown upper crown pinch bolts then tap on the steer tube while holding the fork to remove the upper crown. apply a thin layer of grease to the interface between the stanchions and crowns, this will eliminate noise and help with installation. Grease all bearings, cups, compression rings, races and bolts.

 

[Dh builder]

May sound like a stupid question, have you undone the centre bolt on the upper crown before tightening the headset and is there any chance the top cap is hitting the steerer as some sit deeper in the stem/crown than others?

that's a good question, and I must say that I think the last time I tried to adjust my headset I forgot to unloosen the center crown bolt. But I did this time

I am going to check if the top cap is hitting the steerer tube.

I am going to redo everything and grease the upper crown clamps at the stanchions as it is so difficult to get the upper crown over the stanchions. I will see if the grease helps.

I am going to grease the entire headset again and tighten it down a bit tighter this time.

 

[Dh builder]

So I finally got around to taking the fork out to check my headset.

The bottom sealed bearing was completely open and in pieces. I think I may have not tightened the headset down initially properly and caused this.

I ordered new bearings.

In a pinch, can I reseal the bearing and use it until the new bearing arrives?

 

[csermonet]

So I finally got around to taking the fork out to check my headset.

The bottom sealed bearing was completely open and in pieces. I think I may have not tightened the headset down initially properly and caused this.

I ordered new bearings.

In a pinch, can I reseal the bearing and use it until the new bearing arrives?

as long as it isn't causing damage to the headset cup or fork steerer, i don't see why not

 

[Dh builder]

Finally got rid of that annoying noise. I put the top bearing in the bottom while I had everything apart. I fixed the bearing that was completely in pieces and put it in the top.

Noise is completely gone.

Looking at the broken bearing the outside metal was completely rubbed down. Can't see the "cane creek name" and it looks a different color than the top. There must have been some serious rubbing going on.

I basically didn't torque down my headset enough and had play, although you couldn't feel it.

The one thing that is odd is no matter how tight I make headset cap, the steering seems to turn easily. I torqued it down pretty tight, enough for the stem to not move freely. Actually I torqued it down enough to steer the bike without tightening down the stem to the steerer tube. There seems to be enough space between the steerer tube and the top cap.

Does anyone know if this is normal and if it is possible to lock the steering?

 

[HardtailHack]

If you can lock the steering by tightening the cap bolt you will probably damage the bearing at the same time, don't do that.

You may have over torqued it in the past causing the bearings to wear quickly, it's the same with BBs, if you preload them too much they wear then they have play in very little time. Also is the top O ring in the top headset cap? Small chance it's not there letting water and crud settle on the lower bearing.

 

[Sugar_brad]

A lot of your problem was that originally your headset and bearings were dry. I would replace both bearings and make sure to use plenty of grease and don't over tighten the headset. It should be tight enough to properly preload the bearings but if you over tighten you will bind the bearings and they will wear out faster.

 

[csermonet]

A lot of your problem was that originally your headset and bearings were dry. I would replace both bearings and make sure to use plenty of grease and don't over tighten the headset. It should be tight enough to properly preload the bearings but if you over tighten you will bind the bearings and they will wear out faster.

preloading the bearings isn't an issue on most headsets these days, most bearings are cartridge bearings not loose caged ball bearings. cartridge bearings don't require preload, just tight enough to keep the assembly properly seated. the loose caged bearing, entirely rely on the preload. sounds like he has cartridge bearing, which would explain why he can tighten the stem topcap so tightly and still get proper steering.

 

[canadmos]

^Wouldn't it still begin to bind?

If you are cranking on the top cap and the steering doesn't get stiffer, perhaps the steer tube spacers aren't tall enough to allow the top cap to not sit on the steer tube. If that were the case, then the entire headset assembly wouldn't get compressed, instead you are basically tightening down the top cap into the steer tube like a normal bolt.

 

[csermonet]

^Wouldn't it still begin to bind?

If you are cranking on the top cap and the steering doesn't get stiffer, perhaps the steer tube spacers aren't tall enough to allow the top cap to not sit on the steer tube. If that were the case, then the entire headset assembly wouldn't get compressed, instead you are basically tightening down the top cap into the steer tube like a normal bolt.

it's really hard to say without having the particular setup in front of me, I imagine different headsets react differently to stem cap "tightness". what you say can be completely true as well, about the steerer being too long and/or stem spacers too short.

 

[kawasakidj]

Mines doing the exact same thing with the same headset setup. I had some dip****s at my LBS press them in and install everything. That's why you do it yourself lol

 

[HardtailHack]

I bought at CC headset the other day and I was surprised when I picked it coz the bearings just dropped out, seems they rely on contacting the angled bit in the cup to keep the bearing located located? Should have bought another Acros instead.

 

[csermonet]

I bought at CC headset the other day and I was surprised when I picked it coz the bearings just dropped out, seems they rely on contacting the angled bit in the cup to keep the bearing located located? Should have bought another Acros instead.

Nothing unusual there, how else would you be able to replace the bearings? replace to whole headset cup? every cartridge bearing headset i have used, i have been able to remove the bearings using my fingers

 

[HardtailHack]

Press them out? If a bearing is located by sitting on a tiny taper as soon as that bit wears you get some movement. If you buy a decent headset where the bearing is an interference fit once you torque the cap down that is usually it, there is nothing to wear or no gap to enlarge.

It makes sense as I am currently on the cheap CC headset and every 3mnths or so I have to adjust it whereas the Acros one in the other frame is set and forget. The CC HS may be good for unfaced headtubes but I won't be getting another as they are almost the same price as a decent unit or actually dearer than a MSC which is machined in Spain.