[Ridemonkey.com]

Here are a selection of photos and some first impressions on the new S-Works Carbon Demo. Enjoy...
---

Words and Photos by David Peacock

200mm of travel in carbon form...click the photos for hi-res bike porn.

​

The new Specialized Demo is a bit of a game changer for many riders. Having spent a morning riding it in the bike park, I have some initial thoughts, but this is by no means a full test. The bike is born to ride a variety of DH terrain, from jumps and berms to roots and rocks. Obviously, the big innovation is the new carbon frameset. It translates into a lighter, stronger bike, and less vibration transferring from the trail to the rider.

The big red S...


...and FSR. Two staples on a Specialized.


No welds.​

I rode the bike in the low bb setting, and it cornered like no other. Specialized changed very little from the aluminum version, the only geo change is a 5mm drop in the bb height (sitting at 338mm, with the option to run it at 343 or 348) . The bike wants to corner, so coming in to berms and flat corners you can stay centered on the bike, look ahead and let it do the work. This can be attributed to the short back end and low center of gravity. My only qualm with the low bb was that it did clip a few rocks, but the guard that Specialized has on the downtube showed no signs of wear and protected the frame from harm. Apparently Specialized developed the down tube guard to sit away from the frame, with a layer of foam between the frame and the guard, dampening any impacts. The bike accelerates out of corners and transitions, eating up terrain in its path. Basically, if you've ridden a 2012 Demo you're in for a very similar experience, but you'll be popping around the trail, enjoying the benefit of a lighter, stronger frame that doesn't sacrifice stiffness for weight.

​

The spec on the bike is all SRAM, RockShox Boxxer World Cup up front with custom "Black Gold" stanchions, Avid Code XO brakes, carbon XO DH cranks and XO rear derailleur. What are your thoughts on the new bike?

[fblike]http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252546&p=3817990#post3817990[/fblike]

 

[aaronjb]

In for two.

 

[tabletop84]

 

[norbar]

So how is that a game changer if the ride is similar to the alu demo just stiffer and lighter? Especially given it's not the lightest carbon frame out there?

 

[Deano]

not impressed with that writeup.. looks like specialized wrote it for them..

It rides like a demo.. good.. but gamechanger? seriously.. put those parts on any decent frame these days, and it will ride better then when its fitted with heavier parts that do the exact same thing.

meh..

i like the demo.. but this does not convince me its any bit better then the alu version

 

[demo 9]

"absorbs vibrations but retains the same stiffness"

LOLWUT?

 

[kidwoo]

"absorbs vibrations but retains the same stiffness"

LOLWUT?

Resonance.


Look it up.

 

[gnarbar]

I rode the bike in the low bb setting, and it cornered like no other.

hypez are strong with this one

 

[ustemuf]

if my aluminum version weighs 36lbs even is it even worth it? hmm meh.. not sure if i'll be upgrading.

 

[boogenman]

"absorbs vibrations but retains the same stiffness"

LOLWUT?

LOLWUT to you....Carbon will not transfer vibration

 

[IH8Rice]

not impressed with that writeup.. looks like specialized wrote it for them..

its like every other "review" they do

 

[dhmike]

I still want one .

 

[Whoops]

LOLWUT to you....Carbon will not transfer vibration

O Rly?

 

[Bikael Molton]

^it's true man, the next-gen carbon frames won't even need shocks.

 

[Tomasz]

I don't like the gently sloping lines on this bike.

The Carbon Demo looks like it has warped after being left in the sun too long.

 

[William42]

^it's true man, the next-gen carbon frames won't even need shocks.

my feelings exactly. I thought the main benefit of carbon was not that the frame was a half pound lighter, but that you no longer needed heavy damping units in the front and rear.

 

[kidwoo]

Jesus christ have you people even ridden a carbon bike? Or carbon bars? The **** straight up does not vibrate like aluminum. It has nothing to do with suspension or blown out of proportion claims.

 

[Steve M]

Jesus christ have you people even ridden a carbon bike? Or carbon bars? The **** straight up does not vibrate like aluminum. It has nothing to do with suspension or blown out of proportion claims.

This is one of the biggest myths in mountain bike e-engineering ever. Carbon transfers vibrations pretty well identically to aluminium if you build the thing to be equally stiff in each direction. The reason carbon hardtail frames and bars are more compliant is because they are built to be LESS stiff in certain directions. They can usually do this at a lighter weight than aluminium because carbon has higher strength properties (look up "strength") than aluminium, meaning you can use smaller diameter tubing (or just thinner walls) to reduce the 2nd moment of area (look that one up too), but retaining sufficient stiffness. The supposed "material damping" qualities of carbon do not even come CLOSE to being significant in terms of the ride quality of bicycle frames/components, this is just a myth propagated by people who do not understand material properties and structural mechanics.

 

[Udi]

kidwoo doesn't take well to being shut down... popcorn time

 

[SCARY]

Yippee!!Im just gonna watch and try not to piss anyone off by saying anything.

 

[drop to flat]

Its stronger than aluminium the two cheaper carbon. bikes will be undead,and v10 . The carbon wilson do not know price are they afraud to post prices. what happens when you crack your 2011 or2012 versuon will they warranty with carbin replacement

 

[SCARY]

Is auto-correct REALLY expensive in Canada?

 

[Christiaan]

I want that boxxer!

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Its stronger than aluminium the two cheaper carbon. bikes will be undead,and v10 . The carbon wilson do not know price are they afraud to post prices. what happens when you crack your 2011 or2012 versuon will they warranty with carbin replacement

Dude, even for a german speaking italian like me this is horrible...

 

[Santa Maria]

Dude, even for a german speaking italian like me this is horrible...

Grüße nach Südtirol!

 

[Santa Maria]

You can get black stanchions already - forgot the name of the company though

 

[atrokz]

So if I get one of these frames because I could afford it, will I no longer be cool with the groms at the hills because they can't afford it?

What frame should I buy that will garner me with RM praise? A SC V10C that ends up costing the same amount, but because I built it part by part I'm now cool?



Just be glad that:

a: Large companies are putting the time and effort into DH
b: There are still options for either material
c: It still doesn't cost as much as a top end road bike......

 

[norbar]

You can get black stanchions already - forgot the name of the company though

There is a french company that can make them in any color you want. It was on dirtmag.co.uk some time ago.

@Atrokz well with the v10c you don't have to spend 10k to get the best frame they have on offer. Hell for 10k you can have an antidote carbon which is looking more and more interesting.

 

[atrokz]

@Atrokz well with the v10c you don't have to spend 10k to get the best frame they have on offer. Hell for 10k you can have an antidote carbon which is looking more and more interesting.

Demo C will be available in a frame only option later next year, as well as a lower end build (but still decent) option for around 6k from what I have been told. So at the end of the day it's close enough, but that won't stop people from hating for whatever reasons.

Question is, how they hold up to abuse. As that's a factor in considering value, imo.

 

[norbar]

Demo C will be available in a frame only option later next year, as well as a lower end build (but still decent) option for around 6k from what I have been told. So at the end of the day it's close enough, but that won't stop people from hating for whatever reasons.

Question is, how they hold up to abuse. As that's a factor in considering value, imo.

No one hates the frame. The problem people have is the review and how it claims it's a game changer while in reality it seems only moderately better than the alu one. If you read other posts in the topic you would notice that.

It's a good frame and I can't see anyone in the topic claiming otherwise so what's your problem?

 

[kidwoo]

(look up "strength")

How do you spell that?





All carbon layups are the same right? In fact all things referred to as 'carbon fiber' are the same too right?

 

[Huck Banzai]

This is one of the biggest myths in mountain bike e-engineering ever. Carbon transfers vibrations pretty well identically to aluminium if you build the thing to be equally stiff in each direction. The reason carbon hardtail frames and bars are more compliant is because they are built to be LESS stiff in certain directions. They can usually do this at a lighter weight than aluminium because carbon has higher strength properties (look up "strength") than aluminium, meaning you can use smaller diameter tubing (or just thinner walls) to reduce the 2nd moment of area (look that one up too), but retaining sufficient stiffness. The supposed "material damping" qualities of carbon do not even come CLOSE to being significant in terms of the ride quality of bicycle frames/components, this is just a myth propagated by people who do not understand material properties and structural mechanics.

Denial does not a myth make.

Why did you just explain how carbon can be made to do exactly that (and is a design consideration) while calling it a myth?

The logic and truthiness of your ramble do not arrive at their target.

And like the guy above me said, all 'carbon fiber' is the same layup? resins? Now go actually ride a carbon bike or bars, then you wont be the eEngineer you deride so readily. Or maybe you can butt an alu frame to deliver the same qualities and quiet us ninnies down eh?

My fork probably doesnt actually move or absorb bumps either, since I dont have the math to prove it does; It must be in my head.

 

[kidwoo]

Shhhh


He knows what 'moment' means. I can't even begin to fathom.......... I thought it was just a ski company.

 

[Capricorn]

This is one of the biggest myths in mountain bike e-engineering ever. Carbon transfers vibrations pretty well identically to aluminium if you build the thing to be equally stiff in each direction. The reason carbon hardtail frames and bars are more compliant is because they are built to be LESS stiff in certain directions. They can usually do this at a lighter weight than aluminium because carbon has higher strength properties (look up "strength") than aluminium, meaning you can use smaller diameter tubing (or just thinner walls) to reduce the 2nd moment of area (look that one up too), but retaining sufficient stiffness. The supposed "material damping" qualities of carbon do not even come CLOSE to being significant in terms of the ride quality of bicycle frames/components, this is just a myth propagated by people who do not understand material properties and structural mechanics.

interesting claim: if it works in all other spheres of engineering, why not in mountain biking?

Vibration damping characteristic of nanocomposites and carbon fiber reinforced polymer composites (CFRPs) containing multiwall carbon nanotubes (CNTs) have been studied using the free and forced vibration tests. Several vibration parameters are varied to characterize the damping behavior in different amplitudes, natural frequencies and vibration modes. The damping ratio of the hybrid composites is enhanced with the addition of CNTs, which is attributed to sliding at the CNT-matrix interfaces. The damping ratio is dependent on the amplitude as a result of the random orientation of CNTs in the epoxy matrix. The natural frequency shows negligible influence on the damping properties. The forced vibration test indicates that the damping ratios of the CFRP composites increase with increasing CNT content in both the 1st and 2nd vibration modes. The CNT-epoxy nanocomposites also show similar increasing trends of damping ratio with CNT content, indicating the enhanced damping property of CFRPs arising mainly from the improved damping property of the modified matrix. The dynamic mechanical analysis further confirms that the CNTs have a strong influence on the composites damping properties. Both the dynamic loss modulus and loss factor of the nanocomposites and the corresponding CFRPs show consistent increases with the addition of CNTs, an indication of enhanced damping performance. (C) 2011 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

http://spfind.ust.hk/spfind/Record/999-65949

Polymer matrix composites reinforced by carbon nanofibers (CNFs) are rapidly gaining popularity in vibration damping applications. The large specific area (1000 m2/g) and aspect ratio (> 1000) of CNFs, which promote significant interfacial friction between carbon nanofibers and the polymer matrix, causes much higher energy dissipation in the polymer matrix. Nanocomposite combined with carbon nanofibers in the form of paper sheet have proved significant improvement in vibration damping compared to pure matrix materials. In this study, a unique concept of manufacturing nanocomposites with carbon nanofiber based nanopaper sheets for vibration damping applications has been explored. The new approach includes making carbon nanopaper sheet by the filtration of well-dispersed carbon nanofibers under controlled processing conditions. Subsequently, carbon nanopaper sheets are integrated into composite laminates as surface layer using RTM process. For the comparative study, the vibration amplitude and damping ratio of the samples with and without carbon nanopaper sheet are tested. Furthermore, different fiber reinforcement has been used in composite, including carbon fiber, glass fiber, and the basalt fiber. Especially, the basalt fiber is a new kind of fiber which has a great potential application in composite industry. The experimental results clearly show a significant improvement of vibration damping properties of all nanocomposites plates. This research demonstrates vibration damping enhancement via carbon nanopaper sheets and investigates the effect of fiber reinforcement to the damping property of nanocomposites.

http://cedb.asce.org/cgi/WWWdisplay.cgi?261652

Even without the detail, the summary is pretty conclusive: Real Engineering says the antivibration properties of CF composites are so delish it's worth studying ad nauseum. So how come you are convinced none of this has made it's way into bike frames and components?

 

[marshalolson]

Even without the detail, the summary is pretty conclusive: Real Engineering says the antivibration properties of CF composites are so delish it's worth studying ad nauseum. So how come you are convinced none of this has made it's way into bike frames and components?

technically, additional dampening only happens with the addition of nano-molecules....

 

[Full Trucker]

technically, additional dampening only happens with the addition of nano-molecules....

...or water.

 

[dropmachine]

What he said makes sense, although i can't argue if its true or not. Hes saying the damping characteristic comes from the layups method, not the material itself. Interesting idea. Not sure if its true, but interesting.

I still think the idea of super light DH race bikes for 10k is stupid.

 

[tabletop84]

So if I get one of these frames because I could afford it, will I no longer be cool with the groms at the hills because they can't afford it?

What frame should I buy that will garner me with RM praise? A SC V10C that ends up costing the same amount, but because I built it part by part I'm now cool?



Just be glad that:

a: Large companies are putting the time and effort into DH
b: There are still options for either material
c: It still doesn't cost as much as a top end road bike......

Cool story bro but there are companies out there who will build a carbon dh bike for less than half the price of the demo. I rode the aluimnium version back-to-back with a 2012 demo and it's on par - that makes me glad.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

This is one of the biggest myths in mountain bike e-engineering ever. Carbon transfers vibrations pretty well identically to aluminium if you build the thing to be equally stiff in each direction. The reason carbon hardtail frames and bars are more compliant is because they are built to be LESS stiff in certain directions. They can usually do this at a lighter weight than aluminium because carbon has higher strength properties (look up "strength") than aluminium, meaning you can use smaller diameter tubing (or just thinner walls) to reduce the 2nd moment of area (look that one up too), but retaining sufficient stiffness. The supposed "material damping" qualities of carbon do not even come CLOSE to being significant in terms of the ride quality of bicycle frames/components, this is just a myth propagated by people who do not understand material properties and structural mechanics.

So, you're saying if I built some wind chimes, or a gong out of carbon fiber, they would sound the same as aluminum ones?

 

[norbar]

So, you're saying if I built some wind chimes, or a gong out of carbon fiber, they would sound the same as aluminum ones?

I think some people miss a point in Steve's post. He doesn't claim there is no difference in damping/vibration absorption but that the difference is not noticeable on a dh bike. Kinda like that myth that having your shock 2cm lower significantly helps you corner by significantly lowering the cog (or lowering in any mattering way at all)