[gemini2k]

race on the same course

At pretty much every DH race I've ever been to, or watched remotely, whether its a local race or world championship, the women will ride go arounds and usually roll all or some of the big jumps/step downs. That is hardly the same course at that point.

train for the sport

Not as hard as men do. I don't see Rachel practicing the quarry features in that new video about the Athertons.

also have no respect to women on the course, as you yell at them at you buzz by, more and likely don't have respect for women in general too.

I work with plenty of women with PhD's who are smarter and/or more capable then me. Believe me, no one f*cking cares that they are women. Name calling strangers only weakens your argument.

At best paying women the same is patronizing. At worst it is insulting to both genders and a mis allocation of resources. Women don't take the same risks as men, don't face any real level of competition, and don't promote the sport as much as men, period.

I remember that I was...less than stoked when I raced the U.S. open and the AM payout was the same as both men and women, 5 deep. Except there were only 7 women signed up, and 1 DNF'ed and 1 DNS. So a chic could walk her bike down the course and go home with a set of $500 brakes at worst. Meanwhile I had to beat 100 guys just to even qualify to race in AM, and if i didn't qualify I had to buy an extra lift ticket to ride the park on Sunday.



P.S. Does anyone know if beach volleyball women make more money then men? I would be surprised if they didn't. I know I spent a lot more time watching the women's then men's during the Olympics.

P.P.S. That last statement does NOT make me a sexist pig.

Tell me again how that helps the sport?

 

[the law]

In addition to my previous comments, issues of fairness aside, I doubt thT equal pay for a uci race will increase the popularity of the sport among women. Wouldn't it make more sense to sponsor more women at the grass roots level, or even better, to help women enter the sport to begin with? Maybe start women's only MTb classes. The issue is attracting women to MTb in the first place and to that end, equal pay for a high end elite only race event will do nothing.

 

[dirtidiva]

After reading all the testorone bull****, it is true everything I have believed about the sport. Men are afraid of women. We are stronger in the corporate world. Obvisoulsy those which are commenting on this forum has tasted the defeated of a woman in the Boardroom. I have sweated building trail. I have scraped money for an entry fee. I have heard the abusive comments from men such as you who write on this forum. I wanted to bring more women to the sport. Why? Not because of the narrow mindlessness which those who write. I wanted to bring more women to the sport because I love to ride down a mountain and feel the adrenaline. To feel the sport! I have competed and I deserve equal payout. I deserve to be paid as much as a man for the same duties/skill, knowledge/risk, experience/trail and the love of job/sport. Are you the man who believes women should work or get paid for less because there are more than you? Not all, but most men have brought a disgusting and embarrassing view to the sport. There are people in society who want noting to do with this sport because it represents "inequality". Someone in this forum said, "Because what's being proposed isn't EQUAL. It's letting them compete like women, and be paid like men." Obviously, you do not want to compete in life in all manner as "equal"....you believe you desire an "edge".

 

[Jm_]

This is so interesting for me. I can see both sides and IMO, both sides are valid. To further it, it's ridiculous to think that if they were paid out the same amount that we'd somehow attract a bunch of women to the sport. Women aren't attracted to the sport for other reasons. Heck, how many people race as compared to just ride? The reason they don't like it is that it's hard, you get dirty, the food sucks, parts break, and all sorts of other reasons, and that's perfectly ok. For the few that are interested in the sport, hopefully they are interested because it's hard, you get dirty, the food sucks, and parts break (that you have to overcome).

Money isn't going to change that, and thinking that it's going to bring more people is a pipedream IMO. On the other hand, I don't really care if it's paying out the same amount. How does it "hurt" anything? Oh, wow, you lost out on money that you would have "won", which is different than "earned".

My gut feeling is that they should be paid the same, because it's on the safer side of not assuming that there won't be a bigger turnout, or that you won't actually have some good competition, and most importantly of all, because there is a level of "equality" to that which can't be argued with. I mean, we all know the difference between the womens and mens categories, so it's not like someone is going to get confused with "I got 2nd in womens". We know they are overall slower, and that is ok.

Would it be right if we decided to make a smaller purse for african american competitors, because there are so few of them in our sport?

 

[Serial Midget]

These guys might feel differently if they had daughters who had to face the juvenile bull**** they pass out.

After reading all the testorone bull****, it is true everything I have believed about the sport. Men are afraid of women. We are stronger in the corporate world. Obvisoulsy those which are commenting on this forum has tasted the defeated of a woman in the Boardroom. I have sweated building trail. I have scraped money for an entry fee. I have heard the abusive comments from men such as you who write on this forum. I wanted to bring more women to the sport. Why? Not because of the narrow mindlessness which those who write. I wanted to bring more women to the sport because I love to ride down a mountain and feel the adrenaline. To feel the sport! I have competed and I deserve equal payout. I deserve to be paid as much as a man for the same duties/skill, knowledge/risk, experience/trail and the love of job/sport. Are you the man who believes women should work or get paid for less because there are more than you? Not all, but most men have brought a disgusting and embarrassing view to the sport. There are people in society who want noting to do with this sport because it represents "inequality". Someone in this forum said, "Because what's being proposed isn't EQUAL. It's letting them compete like women, and be paid like men." Obviously, you do not want to compete in life in all manner as "equal"....you believe you desire an "edge".

 

[the law]

After reading all the testorone (sic) bull****, ... Men are afraid ... abusive comments ... narrow narrow mindlessness ...

Keeping it classy. Nice. I guess sometimes it is easier to insult those who have different opinions rather than arguing the merits. In any event, even though you may not agree with all the opinions here, but I think reasonable people can disagree without being insulted.

There is no question that women are entitled to equal pay for equal work. However, I posit that reasonable people can differ whether this is really about equal work or other reasons why/why not equal pay may be appropriate. I tried to summarize the relevant arguments made by on each side of the argument (even if some only apply to the amateur level which is not at issue here).

Arguments against equal pay:
(1) The level of competition is not the same -- there are simply more men who compete and, at least on an amateur level, this means that it is easier to earn money as a women
(2) The men's competition has broader appeal and/or sponsorship value primarily because most of the target audience is male (more men than women who ride)
(3) On an amateur level, women do not contribute as much money through entry fees as men

Arguments for equal pay:
(1) Women who compete train as hard as the guys (I realize there may be some contention about this from some people, but I do feel that applies at the top echelon of the sport)
(2) It sends a message of equality
(3) Women pay as much to compete (does not apply at the top level of the sport)
(4) It encourage more women to ride/compete (seems somewhat unlikely to me)

Edit: Whether women ride at the same level as men or not is really immaterial to me as long as the level of competition and/or appeal to the audience is the same.

 

[eric strt6]

These are the same BS arguments that were argued against title 9. Suck it up boys, you are no more nor no less important to the sport as the women. Today there are few women, probably because the deck has been stacked against them by society, by the sport, and by the men in the sports attitude. A level playing field, encouraging more women to come play will strengthen and increase the size of the field, attract more sponsors and eventually increase the overall purse. It won't happen today or tomorrow but it can happen.

I challenge you to look your daughters, your sisters your, girlfriends, or your wives in the eye and repeat what you posted here then report back what happened

 

[demo 9]

In a good wc venue, how many men enter and how many women?locally around here the womens class is basically the girlfriends of the men racers riding down on a spare bike. My girlfriend gOt 3rd in the us open. She can hardly ride a bike and still doesnt know which side is the front brake. She got beat by an 11 year old amd an 8 year old-both of which entered for thesame reason she did. My gf went on to clean sweeP the series that year uncontested-i have a problem with this.

Edit- not neccessarily against it-but i dont think the sport is ready for it yet. There needs to be more women involved rather than just calling it equal for the sake of being equal

 

[Jm_]

Women like doing some things outdoors sometimes, but are generally less aggressive than men in that pursuit and do not do as "extreme" of sports. I think there should be a realization that there will never be "that many" women in the sport. Maybe more than today, yes, but never as many as there are men. Women have things they want to do too, and it doesn't involve flinging yourself down a mountain at 40mph every day of every weekend. Hell, if we make them feel that much better by having the purse be the same, I'm all for it. I can't think of a real good excuse against it, other then the "DEEEEEEEEYYYYYY TEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRKKKKKKK EEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR JJJJJJJJJJERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBS!"

 

[eric strt6]

Women like doing some things outdoors sometimes, but are generally less aggressive than men in that pursuit and do not do as "extreme" of sports. I think there should be a realization that there will never be "that many" women in the sport. Maybe more than today, yes, but never as many as there are men. Women have things they want to do too, and it doesn't involve flinging yourself down a mountain at 40mph every day of every weekend. Hell, if we make them feel that much better by having the purse be the same, I'm all for it. I can't think of a real good excuse against it, other then the "DEEEEEEEEYYYYYY TEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRKKKKKKK EEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR JJJJJJJJJJERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBS!"

Yeah... like my wife, the Lieutenant, some years ago sitting solo in the cockpit of an A4 and getting launched off the deck of the Independence then landing at night in heavy weather

 

[Kanye West]

After reading all the testorone bull****, it is true everything I have believed about the sport. Men are afraid of women. We are stronger in the corporate world. Obvisoulsy those which are commenting on this forum has tasted the defeated of a woman in the Boardroom. I have sweated building trail. I have scraped money for an entry fee. I have heard the abusive comments from men such as you who write on this forum. I wanted to bring more women to the sport. Why? Not because of the narrow mindlessness which those who write. I wanted to bring more women to the sport because I love to ride down a mountain and feel the adrenaline. To feel the sport! I have competed and I deserve equal payout. I deserve to be paid as much as a man for the same duties/skill, knowledge/risk, experience/trail and the love of job/sport. Are you the man who believes women should work or get paid for less because there are more than you? Not all, but most men have brought a disgusting and embarrassing view to the sport. There are people in society who want noting to do with this sport because it represents "inequality". Someone in this forum said, "Because what's being proposed isn't EQUAL. It's letting them compete like women, and be paid like men." Obviously, you do not want to compete in life in all manner as "equal"....you believe you desire an "edge".

I'm not sure how to respond to a post this illegible.

Sorry, but nobody is "afraid" of you, and I have yet to see any major business or industry where women are the dominant force. Marketing maybe, not that it really has anything to do with a vastly male comprised fringe sport.

Nobody here wants LESS women in the sport. Far, far from it. This is a total reject sport for the reason that it DOESN'T appeal to women, as participants or spectators.

But, in competition, when there is a limited total of potential prize money, we want appropriate divisions of winnings based on what's required of the athlete. As it's been explained repeatedly, in clear English (and not "abusively" as you wish it were for the validation of your argument), the requirements for each class are far far different, especially at any level less than the WC level. Even then it's different, but the disparity isn't as great.

If you are doing the same duties, and have the same skill, and have the same knowledge, and have to take the same risks, and have the same experience, and have to rise beyond the same competition, then YES, you deserve to be paid as much as anyone else. Nobody is arguing that.

By your logic, winnings should be equal in every class. So beginners should win the same purse as experts and pros? Even regardless of the size of the class? So the beginner who barrel rolls down the hill in 10 minutes walking the hard sections would be rewarded the same way as the pro rider who got down in 3 minutes and decimated the rest of the field by 10 seconds? Why not? Because it's not as hard to win in that class. The beginner has not overcome the same challenges. There you have it. This is how the job market works too, but I guess you already knew that since you're at the top of that as well. Your excellent sentence structure gave it away.

Oh, and if I have a daughter, she will know the difference between being entitled to rewards and earning them the same as everyone else through skill development and hard work. Same as I, and really most any successful and independent person, was taught.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

Too bad this thread changed into a sexist war.

In my opinion it is completely OK if event winnings are made equal for the following reasons:
1. Event winnings are relatively insignificant in the grad scheme of things and as laughable as they are there is no need to put down girls with even lower numbers.
2. Guys will still get more support and money for all the reasons stated by the other guys.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

Too bad this thread changed into a sexist war.

In my opinion it is completely OK if event winnings are made equal for the following reasons:
1. Event winnings are relatively insignificant in the grad scheme of things and as laughable as they are there is no need to put down girls with even lower numbers.
2. Guys will still get more support and money for all the reasons stated by the other guys.

 

[iRider]

After reading all the testorone bull****, it is true everything I have believed about the sport. Men are afraid of women.

Are we? Who is it that only wants to participate in the sport in a protected environment of "women only rides", "women only skills clinics", etc.???

 

[iRider]

I guess there's a bigger issue here. Do you guys really think the prize money at worlds is coming from entry fees? It should be coming from sponsorship $$$$. Believe me, paying equal to the women is not taking money out of your pockets This noise is ridiculous. Do you realize that most bikes are purchased by women. Do you think that pissing off women will grow our sport? Get real and suck it up. Please take your mysoginist views home. The world is changing and you are either on the bus or off the bus - and it looks like most of you are way off.

Nobody hates women here. But please tell me where are all the women that ride their bikes, push the sport, are active in the community? At the races, the local spots, the jumps, at dig days, at hearings about opening of new trails, at the resorts, in the bike shop, etc., basically everywhere bikes are involved, men are outnumbering women. And the women that are there are often 'just' the wifes/GFs that got into biking because their SO does it. Why, I don't know? Do I wish this would change? Sure! I love nothing more than get more people into the coolest sport there is!

However, as you can see in this debate the 'same payout for women' creates animosities towards female racers, which doesn't help your case at all. A solution could be the 100% Pro payout. All entry fees from the pro riders get payed out, separated by men and women. The more people are in the class, the more money first place gets and the deeper the payout will be. This way you will be rewarded if you beat a greater competition and there is an incentive for the female riders to make sure more show up and race. If there are 100 male and 100 female racers entering, the winner will have done equal work and will get equal payout.

 

[dropmachine]

I think your generalizing about men crapping on women posting is ludicrous. If you read most of the replies, they are courteous, intelligent and thought out. In fact, the only really crazy, out of left field ranting lunatic post was by a girl. Funny?

Heres what I've learned from my experience watching the racing world, both pro and amateur.

Sponsorship for men is harder. It just is. THere are so many men, and so many divisions, and its so bloody hard to stand out, that getting anything substantial is difficult and requires a considerable amount of dedication and professionalism (well, at least now that sponsorhouse is gone). Yes little deals from manufacturers and the like aren't too hard, but anything beyond that...its tricky for sure.

For the ladies, it seems a bit easier if only for the fact that a) there are considerably less of you and b) companies want to get involved with girls to try and reach a new-ish, growing market. I think from what I have seen too girls are better ambassadors for the sport too than most guys, at least when it comes to DH. They are friendlier, a bit more outgoing, patient and generally less aggro than the guys. Again, this is on average from what I have seen, not a definite.

So that takes care of the personal sponsorship. Should prize money be determined by that? No, I don't think so.

When you go to an event, its the men that are the draw. They are the ones that bring the spectators, and they are the ones bringing any outside corporate funding. They are the show. The women just are not, at least in DH/ FR. I'll say it again: THE MEN ARE THE SHOW. XC, marathon and the like I am willing to bet its a different story, but in DH its the guys. Its exactly the same as any other "aggressive" sport. Actually, almost ALL other sports that I can think of. The only time the women seem to take center stage is by reducing them to sexualized objects, which is completely horse****, unfair and disrespectful. But its also a fact.

So then, saying that money should come from sponsorship isn't that clean cut. The money should go to the people that make the sport stronger, and right now (and for the foreseeable future), that means the guys.

Again, this is not to take anything away from the ladies. They race hard, are skilled and committed. But they just aren't that fun to watch, and they aren't that big of a draw. Sucks, but true.

 

[demo 9]

Ya drop machine-no more posting. This forum is o-v-e-r

 

[dropmachine]

Yeah, if I didn't have a good, sensible reply to a post like mine thats the stance I would take too.


Merry Xmas!

 

[Tomasis]

I guess there's a bigger issue here. Do you guys really think the prize money at worlds is coming from entry fees? It should be coming from sponsorship $$$$. Believe me, paying equal to the women is not taking money out of your pockets This noise is ridiculous. Do you realize that most bikes are purchased by women. Do you think that pissing off women will grow our sport? Get real and suck it up. Please take your mysoginist views home. The world is changing and you are either on the bus or off the bus - and it looks like most of you are way off.

At first I'd love more women involved in Downhill! They have to need to stop playing "victims", just focus to enjoy of ride instead of caring for everybody's opinions else.

If that was not true, then it may be fear to get hurt. Honestly it doesnt help to blame other if it is not enough of 50% participation of the other gender in pro level.

I guess there are many other things to do except that adrenaline sport.

 

[Jm_]

Yeah... like my wife, the Lieutenant, some years ago sitting solo in the cockpit of an A4 and getting launched off the deck of the Independence then landing at night in heavy weather

Yep, but statistically we'd call her the exception, not the rule. Pretty cool though. I thought they didn't let women fly combat back when they had the A4? I know several female pilots I'd rather have with me anyways.

 

[Jm_]

That's kind of odd because I raced a long time and very few women who raced at the pro level got involved because their boyfriend was doing it. Maybe at the lower levels but not pro. And since I started coaching, not one of the women who come to me for skills instruction is doing it because their boyfriend races. They found out about the sport and want to try for themselves - gee kind of like how guys get into it.

Actually, I don't know of any guys that have gotten into the sport and went to find a "coach" to ride. They usually find a group of people to mentor them along, or people with like skills, but very few guys EVER go to "coaches" for riding or racing. On any given day, the ratio of women to men seems to be about 1:20, or worse. For whatever reasons, men and women are different. Because of this, it doesn't seem to be "like how the guys get into it". Most girls I've discussed the sport with are dumbfounded as to why I just don't ride a motorcycle instead.

 

[iRider]

They aren't cutting the guys at all just bringing equality in for all.

Your definition of 'equality' seems to be different to what most people use. Nobody argues against equal pay if all things are equal. But they currently are not! And that is the point you miss. It is about the depth of competition. Go over to Roots'n'Rain and check the number of participants, the winning times and the time gap between winner and 10th place on a couple of races. You will see that there are outstanding female riders but that the competition is way less fierce. I can't remember where I read it, but there was recently an article on how close female riders are to the performance of men (I think it was in DIRT). And compared to other sports they are not yet at the level they should be (% off on men's times). Rachel Atherton was used as an example as she and ACC were the few that got close to that performance optimum. In the beginning of her career Rachel was pinning it, taking the risk and winning by huge margins. This all-out style caused a lot of injuries and now she settled on a less aggressive style just doing enough to win. The article was saying that men can't ride like that because of the greater competition. They need to take high risks to get on the podium. Unless there is enough competition women don't have to do as much as men to win, so no equality.

BTW: I think it is great that you have different experiences than most others regarding the motivation and involvement of female riders. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to transfer to all riding communities.

 

[iRider]

On any given day, the ratio of women to men seems to be about 1:20, or worse.

Which is also reflected on the forums. Do you see any female participation in discussions outside of the 'women only' forum if it is not about equal payout?

 

[Jm_]

Snap!

 

[Lelandjt]

I just showed this thread to my wife (she goes to lots of races but doesn't compete) and she said pay should not be equal. She kind of liked my idea of equal pay for top 3, then then less for the women at 4th and 5th place and pay men down to 10th place but she generally said pay should not be equal.

 

[Kanye West]

My girlfriend is also getting a huge kick out of this. She is a life-long competition hunter/jumper and 3-day event horse rider. She's way more competitive than I am in general. Her take on it was that this whole "class" thing was just kind of stupid. If they're racing the same course and have the same bikes, let them race against the men. That's how all equestrian divisions are, and gender divided classes are unheard of. She's been competing in her sport against mens classes since she was 5 or something.

When I mentioned that one of the bike races had started an equal purse for mens and womens classes, she started laughing. Her immediate question was, "WTF for?". I just shrugged.

I have yet to find any logical and rational women who are board with this idea, and that says something. Just the screaming illiterate ones who think they're always the victim of....who knows what, but I don't regard those outliers as legitimate data points anyway.

 

[Transcend]

Yeah, if I didn't have a good, sensible reply to a post like mine thats the stance I would take too.


Merry Xmas!

Taking my ball and going home.

Sponsorship dollars generally go towards putting on the event. Equipment rentals, staff, timing rental, lodging food for staff and volunteers etc. At every event but worlds (especially local events as we both know) prize money is raised largely through registrations.

Also Kathy, I've known you a long time, and respectfully disagree. Want equality? Base prize money at every single pro event as a % of participants. 80% men and 20% women, men get 80% of the purse. If it's the opposite at some events, then women get the 80% etc.

Done, no one can argue. This is truly a fair method to distribute the cash. At many events I've seen women's payout go 10 deep, which is more than half of the damn field, while men's goes 10 deep in a field of 100+ people.

 

[Kanye West]

Not taking ball and going home. When every post I write has another 100 men posting up against me it just becomes meaningless. This isn't the place for me to speak out because there is really no one listeniling or even getting it.
Believe me I have many more things to say.

Nobody is getting it? 3 ranting posts, and I still don't see a point or a valid line of logic for your argument.
We read/listened, and still see no merit to your argument, other than you think "you have to take **** from men".

Please, enlighten us, what should we be "getting" exactly? And there aren't 100 men posting up against you. It's more like 2 or 3, all of which are awaiting some logic and reasoning behind this, besides the usual "subsidize my efforts because I think I'm a victim of society" chant we keep hearing.

C'mon, you have a keyboard, and I'm sure you can put together a concise and coherent argument for us to "get". Surely there must be SOME sound reasoning to this if you keep arguing it?


Those arguing for having the pay being equal do not seem to realize that the money didn't just appear out of nowhere to bring them equal. If the purse money is coming from one pool and it is then split down the middle rather than 80/20 or whatever the ratio is for that particular race, then the larger group is effectively subsidizing the smaller group. If it were the case that it took nothing away from the prize money contributed by the members of that larger group, there would probably be a lot less concern.

If men showed up to a female dominated sport in small numbers, and wanted prize payout equal to that of the massive womens class for their own class from an existing purse amount, that would go over like a fart in church.

 

[Jm_]

Not taking ball and going home. When every post I write has another 100 men posting up against me it just becomes meaningless. This isn't the place for me to speak out because there is really no one listeniling or even getting it.
Believe me I have many more things to say.

I think you guys should go back and read the post by the uci. Its talking about one race - the world championships.

That's not fair. There are valid points on both sides. If you can't have a discussion about it though, I guess you should let the men do what they want? The whole "pack up and go home" is ridiculous. So women aren't posting because they feel oppressed? This isn't some place where they are being restricted to the internet, they don't post and get involved because that is their choice. If this isn't a medium to "speak out" and discuss it, what is?

Personally, I think I like the idea of the purse being the same. It doesn't get me all bent out of shape, because at the best, it's more equal, and at the worst, it's trying to attract more to the sport, which is good. On the flip side, it's just reality that most women are not attracted to this sport, and that women are different than men. They have different motivations and likes, and that's ok. It doesn't make them "weak minded" because of this. I also don't race very much (almost nil) and I don't think racing defines this sport. It's about going out and having fun, and racing makes it less fun much of the time IMO. Take what you like about the sport, now decrease the number of runs, make one run have to "count", make it so that you can't take it leisurely and make more decisions on what might be fun to hit or try, make it so your equipment has to perform perfectly on that one run, and so on. I've done it and in some situations it's fun, but it's going to alienate even more people than just the sport by itself. So now it's pushed to an even higher level where there's even less women. That's just reality.

Don't drop the subject because you "don't want to play" though. This should be discussed, and valid points brought up on both sides.

 

[Transcend]

As an aside I forgot to add: more prize money will not "attract women to the sport." At best, the price money is a mere pittance; for both men and women. The vast majority of women simply aren't interested in the sport as has been pointed out already. Beginner women aren't going to worlds anyways, so it's a straw man (woman?) argument, at best being that it's "about one event."

And yes, it's only one event however, it sets precedence.

Let's not even get into the women's freeride movement.

 

[cecil]

Base the payouts on the top 5 fastest times, every second slower you loose $$.
Lets say the third fastest time in the pro men is the same as the first place pro woman they get the same payout, Seems fair

 

[FarkinRyan]

Except that something around 100-120th place in pro men is generally the same as the first place pro woman, depending on the course.

 

[Lelandjt]

Lets say the third fastest time in the pro men is the same as the first place pro woman they get the same payout, Seems fair

I don't think I've seen a DH race where the 1st Pro woman cracked the Pro men top 20. The top 3-5 guys are usually separated by a few seconds, then the next 20 only have 10ths or 100ths between each of them.

 

[gemini2k]

I looked at this a while ago. The top pro women don't crack qualifying for men's WC if I remember correctly. I also remember in some interview with Rachel Atherton saying her goal was to do that.

I don't think I've seen a DH race where the 1st Pro woman cracked the Pro men top 20. The top 3-5 guys are usually separated by a few seconds, then the next 20 only have 10ths or 100ths between each of them.

 

[cecil]

Ok, problem solved right?

 

[iRider]

For all interested: Dirt 119 had an article on 'closing the gap between men and women' in DH racing in which Alan Milway (trainer of Danny Hart) explains why women are not performing to their optimum in the sport yet.
Seriously interesting read!

 

[Jm_]

They aren't going to perform as fast as men on average, ever, so IMO the "gap" is completely irrelevant. Who cares if it's .01 or 10 seconds. Some sports are separated by mental and physical ability, some more physical, and some more mental. In some, it's conceivable for women to "beat" men, in others, like this, it's not possible.

How does this work in other sports, like Women's DH Skiing? GS, Super-G, Downhill? Do they have purses at the WC level and do they earn as much as men? I'm sure they face similar situations with less female competitors. Skiing does appeal better because you don't get as dirty, there's apres ski, a huge portion of the industry is devoted to attracting women (equipment, accessories, amenities, resorts, etc), and even for those that don't ski a lot of the bigger resorts try to give good alternatives for families and especially women.

So our sport "suffers" in this respect, but skiing/boarding STILL has less women racing than men, and less aggressive skiers/riders than men. What does skiing do? Do they give out the same size purse to women? If so, I'd think that would be a pretty good reason to do so. Again, helping to attract more women to the sport, spend money, interest businesses, other women, and so on. Yes, it always seems like it's the same 3 girls year after year competing, but I don't think there are any magic bullets and any progress in this area is going to be slow. Will it benefit the sport in the long run? I think it could. Are there 100,000 deprived guys waiting to take the 3 girls that won out on a date? Probably. It's money that's going to end up back in the sport ultimately anyways, right? I think the guys that are looking at this from a purely "200 guys, 20 girls, they should get 10% of what the guys get"-attitude are missing the bigger picture. This is downhill mountain bike racing, not Arnold Schwarzenegger's Running Man. It's supposed to be fun. What about all the support, families, friends that may be able to come out, etc, how will they view the sport if she only gets a 20-spot at a friendly race that paid out $200?

Heck, with all this talk of how much slower women are, they must be spending more to go faster right? Lighter bike, non-standard gears, gym training? That's admittedly a little far fetched, but I know a lot less girls that will run bikes and just equipment in general in the same condition and upkeep that guys do. They might not take the time to always be as knowledgeable about it, but they'll usually want it to be working and not let it degrade to the point that guys will, not to mention making it aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Transcend]

Professional alpine skiing has completely different world cup circuits for the men and the women. Sometimes they share the same venues, but at a lot of the bigger ones there are no women's events at all. They have entirely separate or modified /shortened courses etc.

Prize money is different at every event, average is around 35 000 euros for the win. It;s all over the place however. Sometimes they are equal, sometimes not. It depends on the venue etc.

 

[iRider]

They aren't going to perform as fast as men on average, ever, so IMO the "gap" is completely irrelevant. ......

Did you actually read the article?

 

[Jm_]

Yes. It's very short ?

December 21, 2012 - The UCI Management Committee this week approved a proposal for equal prize money for men and women at all UCI World Championships.
Coming into effect from January 2013, this decision applies to all of cycling’s disciplines, with the exception of the road team time trial, whose prize money is funded by a contribution from the UCI WorldTour’s reserve and solidarity fund.
UCI President Pat McQuaid welcomed the decision, saying no distinction should be made between the achievements of men and women: “The Management Committee’s approval is a simple but very important step forward in our effort to guarantee a healthy and fair future for our sport.”
The first UCI World Championships in 2013 will be for cyclo-cross in Louisville (USA) on February 2 and 3.
-- UCI Communication Services