[Metamorphic]

You got the Pike, the new 36, the new Lyrik, the Mattoc, the Stage, the Diamond. It's nuts out there. I am probably forgetting something (do they make a single crown Rux?)

Got a 2015 Spitfire with a DB Inline out back and a 150mm 26" Pike. Looking for a 160mm fork when I go 27.5 in the fall (already have the plastic rims hanging in the basement).

• I like going down about 26x better than going up
• I don't mind pushing a bit more heft (e.g. a hundred gram difference will not sway me) to get up the hill
• Downhill performance, chassis stiffness, damping performance important most

Out of the gate, I think the Lyrik will be moar suitable than the Pike. I have read the Stage seems a bit flaccid compared to other contenders. So those two are out?

So now we're at 2016 36, Lyrik, Mattoc, and Diamond. Help me rule out some of those, or will they all leave me giddy and I should just buy what I can find the best deal on? Thx Ridemonkey.

 

[kidwoo]

Ain't nothing wrong with no stage fork. It actually ramps up a lot better than pikes IMO, even with tokens.

 

[Kanye West]

Diamond. But anything besides a Pike or Lyric. Hugely over-rated generation of products from my experience with the Pike at least.

Mattoc definitely isn't bad, but nowhere near as free-moving as the Diamond. No idea on the real new Fox stuff.

 

[dan-o]

Current gen 36 is excellent.

 

[Sandwich]

pretty stoked on the 36, plus you can run 20mm. Separately adjustable hi and lo speed compressions are pretty decent on a fork, even on a trail bike. i got mine for about $300 less than any of the others (shy of the pike) but that's just icing on the cake.

 

[djjohnr]

I have a Mattoc set at 140mm. It's OK, not amazing. Damping is good but the small bump sensitivity could be improved. I'm not sure about the current gen of air AM forks as my last one was a coil 36. My air Dorado has fantastic small bump due to the inverted design.

 

[jstuhlman]

love my 36 float.

 

[StiHacka]

There's also XFusion Metric. I still like the Vengeance. Super stiff, good damper, super reliable, easy to service.

 

[HAB]

Mattoc definitely isn't bad, but nowhere near as free-moving as the Diamond. No idea on the real new Fox stuff.

The Mattoc is definitely a good fork, but I agree that it isn't the smoothest chassis. Small bump sensitivity is only okay, but midstroke support and bottom out control are first rate. Stiffness is good, but the new 36 is definitely stiffer. Stiction, chassis stiffness, and small bump sensitivity on the new 36 Float are better than any 160mm fork I've ridden (this doesn't include the Diamond though). Having owned all three, I'd rate them 36 > Mattoc > Pike.

 

[Metamorphic]

Thx for all the replies. This is interesting (encouraging?) since I'm coming off a Pike which I can't really fault. Perhaps it be ig'nunce.

Keep the opinions coming, but based on 8 replies (statistically significant), the 36 seems to have an early lead. Would definitely do a 2016 too, the service interval cinquituple-oubled (sp?). 125hrs over 30hrs?? I'll take it!

 

[ianjenn]

I had the 2015 36 TALAS it was impressive......

 

[maxyedor]

Just picked up a new float 36, really impressed this far, and should get better as I dial it in more. My two complaints are that the rebound adjuster is a PITA to deal with while ridding and tuning, but I'm only 1-2 clicks away from never touching it again, and the threaded portion of the 20mm axle is not only sure short, but the threads are super fine, that scares me a bit.

The chassis is otherwise very well designed, the clamps will fall out the bottom if you break a bolt, no drilling required, the adjusters for compressing are hard to accidentally bump into another click, the thing is stiff and slippery, and you can run a 7" rotor without an adapter, minor plus, but still a plus over all the other trenduro forks that require a goofy wedge shaped adapter to run the common rotor size. Most importantly, no CTD.

 

[gemini2k]

Are the 36's much better than the 34s? I thought the 2015 34's were really disappointing. Felt 'okay' ish out of the box, but about 4-5 rides in it turned into complete dogsh*t. Totally unacceptable performance after that.

 

[kidwoo]

Don't ever buy anything that has 34 on it. Especially with your size (leverage).

I swear to god the first 32mm fox forks that ever existed were stiffer than those things.

 

[Jm_]

I'm finally getting the Diamond tuned a little better, having to use a lot of OTT, and I mean a lot. Otherwise, it kind of hesitates most of the time (moderate speeds in chunky terrain) between the softer initial travel and when the high speed "kicks in" if I only have around 5 full turns in. At higher speeds in chunky terrain it can be very nice, but I have to do something about the bottom out, which looks like it's going to be adding some oil to the air chamber (supposedly that's a tuning parameter on this fork, although not widely advertised). The OEM Diamond may be the best thing going in the OEM market, but the newest pike has a revised rebound seal head and piston, supposedly to force the oil to do what it should have done originally and not suck in air from the rebound shaft. So stock Diamond may be better than stock Pike, but tuned Pike (avalanche) is definitely better than stock DVO at this point. The modified charger damper breaks away to the high speed damping so effortlessly, like butter.

If I was doing it again, I'd get a cheap newish chassis, like the Yari or some Lyric on closeout, and put the avalanche cartridge damper in it. No question. Custom beats OEM any day.

Can't really tell a different stiffness wise, these forks are all the same stanchion size for the most part with similar wall thicknesses and weights. The DVO is about a 5lb fork, not quite as light as advertised, at least my 29er version, but supposedly that's mostly due to the damper, not the chassis.

Main issue I have with the pike (why I'm not running it now) is that after 2+ seasons, the damper gets pretty tired and sucks in air. Needs a full rebuild. Already did the rebound seal head. More realistically, it probably needs the full rebuild every season. Did the bath oil changes frequently, so the chassis is in good order, but it needs more than just a damper-oil change after a season IME. I have the avalanche pistons, so when it's working, it's great, but even if you pick up a Pike for around $700, junk/sell the cartridge, get the avalanche full cartridge, put it in there, you'll end up ahead IMO. Because from then on, all you have to do is simply oil changes and not worry about bladders and other ridiculous stuff, not to mention the tuning that will be way better.

But obviously, you could do the same with a Yari or closeout Lyric and save even more $$$. That's what I'd do.

 

[ianjenn]

Are the 36's much better than the 34s? I thought the 2015 34's were really disappointing. Felt 'okay' ish out of the box, but about 4-5 rides in it turned into complete dogsh*t. Totally unacceptable performance after that.

The 36 had a pretty heavy overhaul in 2015. Almost everything changed in it. I have ridden all the forks people have posted about on this thread. Except the 34....

The FOX is better than most of them.

 

[mykel]

Mattoc here - but its on a Knolly Endorphin with 26" wheels - so totally unrideable.

I agree, small bump could be better, however mid stroke is good, bottom out is excellent.
The faster you go the better it gets - lots better. Overall I'm happy, it is not totally embarrassed by the CCDBa-CS out back.

They have just come out with a top-cap with volume tokens - so this may help soften up the small bump by allowing a little less pressure without sacrificing the mid-stroke...

Then there is the cost factor - it can be had hundreds cheaper than the usual suspects.

 

[Udi]

Since there's a lot of happy 36 owners here - there were a few reports in previous threads about steerer creaks being more common on the new model (someone had issues even after a few warranty replacements), and also one count of premature bushing wear. Are these isolated cases?

Genuine question as I ride a 36 too (I'm on a 12/13 36van RC2). On my 40 I just bought a new one and switched in the old coil guts - and I'd like to do the same with the new 36 one day (a lot of the weight savings are in the chassis) if it's trouble-free.

A friend got on the Mattoc train and had nothing but issues including a complete damper failure, dramas with the axle, and a wear line on the stanchion, I'd avoid it. I think the DVO is nice but it really is much heavier than the current competition (real weight is around 2150-2200g I think), and while it doesn't bother me personally, I feel like at that weight it should just be a full coil fork - especially when most reports seem to suggest it's no more sensitive than a Pike. The new Pike is a great fork and also very light, so coupled with the new SKF damper seal which might fix the damper air-ingress, it still seems like a solid option to me. If I didn't run a 36 I'd probably go with that, and FAST suspension make some cool upgrades for it too.

But for the OP, if stiffness is key, get the 36. With a proper 4-pinchbolt 20mm through axle it'll be the winner in torsional stiffness, and the RC2 damper is always golden. Make sure you use a 20mm wheel to make the most of it.

 

[gemini2k]

Don't ever buy anything that has 34 on it. Especially with your size (leverage).

I swear to god the first 32mm fox forks that ever existed were stiffer than those things.

Yeah didn't buy it. Came on the complete bike . I'm gonna sell that bike soon anyways. Although I did replace it with a zoke. Which wasn't any better!

 

[nmpearson]

I know I'll get yelled at...but I love my 2015 350 air. Super plush, not much of a weight penalty vs anything else, ramps up amazing, small bump is perfect. I'd put it vs any fork out there

 

[HAB]

Are the 36's much better than the 34s? I thought the 2015 34's were really disappointing. Felt 'okay' ish out of the box, but about 4-5 rides in it turned into complete dogsh*t. Totally unacceptable performance after that.

Yes. They're about a million times stiffer, and have a substantially different, and vastly better, damper.

Since there's a lot of happy 36 owners here - there were a few reports in previous threads about steerer creaks being more common on the new model (someone had issues even after a few warranty replacements), and also one count of premature bushing wear. Are these isolated cases?

I can only speak to my sample size of one, but I got my '15 in the spring and it's been flawless all season.

 

[dan-o]

No issues with my 36 either. I've owned every gen 36 is this is far and away the best.

 

[Udi]

Sweet, that's great to hear. The 36 is my favourite too, sounds like I'll be getting another.

 

[big-ted]

Out of interest, what would be the differences in a 160mm, 27.5 version of the Pike vs. Lyrik?

I've seen many 'reviews' claim to answer this but no-one really has. All I hear is "slightly beefier' and 'more aggressive.'

 

[djjohnr]

Out of interest, what would be the differences in a 160mm, 27.5 version of the Pike vs. Lyrik?

I've seen many 'reviews' claim to answer this but no-one really has. All I hear is "slightly beefier' and 'more aggressive.'

I don't think those are available for sale yet.

 

[kidwoo]

Out of interest, what would be the differences in a 160mm, 27.5 version of the Pike vs. Lyrik?

I've seen many 'reviews' claim to answer this but no-one really has. All I hear is "slightly beefier' and 'more aggressive.'

Both the same 35mm stanctions with the claim that they're, you know..........'different'.

The bottomless tokens for them are the same so there's no huge difference in wall thickness.

I don't doubt the lowers/bushing setup is more burly. 20mm sure would have been nice though.

 

[blindboxx2334]

There's also XFusion Metric. I still like the Vengeance. Super stiff, good damper, super reliable, easy to service.

+1. they are also answer the phone when i call.

my vengeance is still going strong.

 

[Metamorphic]

Both the same 35mm stanctions with the claim that they're, you know..........'different'.

The bottomless tokens for them are the same so there's no huge difference in wall thickness.

I don't doubt the lowers/bushing setup is more burly. 20mm sure would have been nice though.

Pinkbike reports differently good sir knight.

"RockShox stuck with 35mm stanchions for the Lyrik, which means the Pike, Lyrik, and BoXXer all share the same external stanchion dimensions, but the walls of the Lyrik's 35mm stanchions are thicker than that of the Pike, and the arch has been beefed up as well, measures intended to increase the overall stiffness of the fork. The legs are tapered and asymmetrical (the left leg, where the air chamber resides, is longer to create more negative spring volume),"

No idea what "beefed up" means, but a couple bits in there that actually do talk about changes for greater stiffy coefficient.


I have always been a Rockshox Fanboi, so I am interested in what people like you jerks say about it when they actually start shipping and people (that aren't paid to report positively on products) can give some real world shred feedback.

Another option would be just fork over (see what I did there) about half the retail of a new Lyrik or 36 on a 160 650b Pike, then take my savings and Avy it up. Wouldn't be as stiff as the other two, but damping would, in theory, be moar better.

 

[kidwoo]

Pinkbike reports differently good sir knight.

That doesn't contradict what I said.

I said there's no huge difference in wall thickness. As in if there were, the spacers would need to be different.

I think they taper the ones on the boxxers. They may be doing that with these.

 

[Metamorphic]

That doesn't contradict what I said.

I said there's no huge difference in wall thickness. As in if there were, the spacers would need to be different.

I think they taper the ones on the boxxers. They may be doing that with these.

Also from the Pinkbike article:
"On the air chamber side, Bottomless Tokens can be added or removed to increase the amount of end stroke ramp up. The dimensions of the Tokens in the Lyrik are slightly smaller than those found in the Pike due to the fork's thicker stanchion walls, but in the near future all Tokens will be the same size to simplify things."

No idea how RS would move to same token sizes with different I.D.'s of the stanchions...unless they o-ring out the annular space, which seems like a bad idea. Or of course make the Pike stanchions a hair smaller O.D.

 

[kidwoo]

Okay now THAT contradicts what I said

I was looking up part numbers and it looked like they were the same.

So I guess that's it. Moar thickR.

 

[ZHendo]

I was recently in a very similar situation regarding my 2014 Spitfire. I had an XFusion Sweep when I first got the bike, but the damping was a bit underwhelming and the chassis wasn't all that stiff. I then took a gamble and went to a 2014 Marzocchi 350 CR, which was great at first, but performance has degraded rapidly. I liked it quite a bit when I first picked it up because compression damping was better than the XFusion and chassis stiffness was very impressive, but after putting a coil shock on the back of the bike I started to notice some of its shortcomings. Firstly, I have noticed performance to degrade VERY quickly after rebuilds. I had to send it to Marzocchi right off the bat due to very notchy performance, and it came back feeling awesome. A few weeks of riding later and it has lost a lot of its plushness, and started to feel very "wooden". The biggest thing I noticed was the inadequacy of the rebound circuit on high speed, chunky trails - I could never get it to feel quite right, and it would really start to lose its composure in repeated hits. Rebuilding the fork is also a pain, and Marzocchi does not provide any documentation of how to appropriately bleed the damper, which I find quite frustrating as someone who much prefers DIY suspension work.

I spent the better part of the last month researching forks, asking around, and it ultimately came down to the Pike and 36. With the new versions of 2016 Pike receiving the updated seal head, it should be a very reliable fork, and a lot of people really liked it. I spoke with some local shop guys that I respect as great riders and wrenches, and across the board was told that the new 36 is the benchmark in chassis stiffness and damping performance. I was able to find a 2016 36 Float RC2 for only $65 bucks over the best price I found on a 2016 Pike, so I went for it. New fork should be here tomorrow.

 

[Dogboy]

I said there's no huge difference in wall thickness. As in if there were, the spacers would need to be different.

I think they might be though. Seems like one article I read had a picture and they were a smaller diameter/slightly deeper to have the same overall change per token.

Doh! Never mind, saw the earlier post.

 

[Dogboy]

No idea how RS would move to same token sizes with different I.D.'s of the stanchions...unless they o-ring out the annular space, which seems like a bad idea. Or of course make the Pike stanchions a hair smaller O.D.

They don't need to fill the ID, just take up the same amount of volume as the older tokens.

 

[Metamorphic]

They don't need to fill the ID, just take up the same amount of volume as the older tokens.

Oh right because the tokens simply take up volume and don't seal or anything. Berp-a-derp, no surprise I ain't an engineer.

 

[Metamorphic]

I was recently in a very similar situation regarding my 2014 Spitfire. I had an XFusion Sweep when I first got the bike, but the damping was a bit underwhelming and the chassis wasn't all that stiff. I then took a gamble and went to a 2014 Marzocchi 350 CR, which was great at first, but performance has degraded rapidly. I liked it quite a bit when I first picked it up because compression damping was better than the XFusion and chassis stiffness was very impressive, but after putting a coil shock on the back of the bike I started to notice some of its shortcomings. Firstly, I have noticed performance to degrade VERY quickly after rebuilds. I had to send it to Marzocchi right off the bat due to very notchy performance, and it came back feeling awesome. A few weeks of riding later and it has lost a lot of its plushness, and started to feel very "wooden". The biggest thing I noticed was the inadequacy of the rebound circuit on high speed, chunky trails - I could never get it to feel quite right, and it would really start to lose its composure in repeated hits. Rebuilding the fork is also a pain, and Marzocchi does not provide any documentation of how to appropriately bleed the damper, which I find quite frustrating as someone who much prefers DIY suspension work.

I spent the better part of the last month researching forks, asking around, and it ultimately came down to the Pike and 36. With the new versions of 2016 Pike receiving the updated seal head, it should be a very reliable fork, and a lot of people really liked it. I spoke with some local shop guys that I respect as great riders and wrenches, and across the board was told that the new 36 is the benchmark in chassis stiffness and damping performance. I was able to find a 2016 36 Float RC2 for only $65 bucks over the best price I found on a 2016 Pike, so I went for it. New fork should be here tomorrow.

Appreciate the input man. Sounds more and more like the new 36 is worth trying. I'll start price hunting soon and if I am feeling particular weak/antsy, may just pull the trigger if I see a good deal. Still gotta build my wheels so not sweating it right now. Pics of your Spitty would be rad!

 

[Udi]

Downhill performance, chassis stiffness, damping performance important most

On this note, adding more material at the arch and inside of the stanchions to generate torsional stiffness is going to do substantially less compared to increasing the external diameter of the stanchion and the external diameter of the axle.

RS with the Lyric are wanking around to try and fit within an existing "standard" driven by XC whippets while Fox not only stuck to their guns but one-upped their previous model by replacing the decent 20mm dropouts with a thoroughly DH-oriented quad pinchbolt design.

My fear of creaky Fox crowns aside (I'm still dubious but there are plenty of happy owners here), for wanting the things you want, I'd throw my money at Fox for actually supporting your cause. While I think both forks would work great, buying the Lyric is like saying "yeah, keep making stuff weakly tailored to my needs but compromised by what dentists want".

 

[ritche]

happy with my 2015 650B float 36 RC2 (straight steerer tube -> swapped out the lowers)

Will I miss anything over the newer 2016 Fit4? What's the difference?

 

[Udi]

Will I miss anything over the newer 2016 Fit4? What's the difference?

FIT4 is an upgrade on CTD with more useful adjustments and range, the RC2 is still the high end damper.

 

[ianjenn]

Having the 20mm front end is very nice. I need to call Profile and get the 20mm ends for the hub so when I get the 36 I will be ready.