I'm currently 220lbs and hope to be at 215 next spring. I wear a helmet, elbow and knee pads and that's about it. Anyone hear anything about the Dorado wallowing too much for heavier riders because of the air spring?
Dorado Pro/Expert for heavier riders?
- Thread starter ChrisRobin
- Start date
The Dorado's damper is actually quite supportive (and can be revalved internally if you still need more), and the air spring is better than most other full air systems in that regard. At your weight your biggest concern may be occasionally twisting the fork in the crowns when you crash or have heavy awkward landings, but that's a couple of minutes with an allen key to remedy.
Hey Steve - have you spent any time working on X-Fusion Metrics or the 2015 Floats yet? Any comments on them, specifically their comparative air spring characteristics? I'm usually a coil only guy given the choice, but none exist in 27.5/180mm.
I posted my thoughts on the Dorado v. DVO over on MTBR. Basically, the Dorado doesn't have enough midstroke support for anyone over 190lbs. So you'll need to get it retuned for your weight. Chassis and spring are good though (minus the spring constantly winding down)
http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-freeride/dorado-vs-dvo-emerald-928784.html
DVO review
Summary:
DVO has a vastly superior chassis to other fork offerings and significantly better damper performance. Although it is slightly heavier, I didn’t notice it while riding, generally, except when trying to manual maybe? Although I’m larger (and STRONGER!
) than the average rider. The stock tune was not very good, a bit harsh, but after I had them retune the compression stack, it is quite impressive.
Background:
Over the past few years I’ve run a variety of 888s including one with an Avy damper. The last year I’ve ridden a few Dorados (expert/pro, different years), and this year have been alternating between the Dorado and the Emerald. I think that Dorado is probably the second best fork on the market (and the expert is certainly the best value), so for most of the review I’ll be doing an A-B comparison of the 2.
I’ve explored the full tuning range of the Dorado (oil heights and weights, adjusters, spring rates, but not hardware/shim stack tuning) but have yet to do the same with the Emerald. In the past 8 years I’ve run a 40 and some different boxxers *shudders*, some 66’s, old Manitou shermans, 55’s, pikes, and more. I have not ridden any of the recent 40’s, but I’ve bounced around on a few. I still would like to get my hands on a Zoke 380. Although the whole “Let’s underspring every single fork we sell” attitude of Zoke has left me a bit jaded. I’d say I ride at the upper end of the expert level, I’m not especially fast, but at North American resorts I’ll clear most if not all of the most challenging features without much if any trouble.
I. Chassis:
A. Smoothness
This is where the Emerald truly shines. I’ve spent a good amount of time playing with improving the action of 888 and Dorado chassis in the past. Frequent rebuilds, using a variety of different greases on the seals and damper/lubrication oils, etc. So I’m used to a fairly supple fork. The DVO hands down beats any other fork I’ve tried right out of the box, much lower friction from the seals/bushing interface. This is probably due to improved mfg. tolerances. This effect is quite striking, even random Joe Blows who have pushed down on my fork notice it. After a couple of hard resort weekends (Mammoth and Northstar, ~10-15k vert/day) it’s only getting smoother, it’s like a reverse Boxxer! At 225lbs I run a spring rate far higher than most people, and yet the initial inch or so of travel is still significantly more plush than boxxers/40’s/Dorados sprung for people 50 pounds less than me. I notice a SIGNIFICANT improvement in hand fatigue over the Dorado. Which to me is one of the most important aspects of a fork when you’re trying to rack up the days at Northstar.
B. Offset
The DVO has a reduced offset on the crowns compared to the Dorado. That means that the fork is “further back” relative to the headtube. Although this isn’t discussed much in MTB circles, offset is a HUGE tuning parameter in the moto world. A larger offset makes the fork more stable, but a reduced offset should increase low speed handling performance, turning, etc.
I notice that the Dorado has s tendency to want to “flop over” in turns compared to the DVO. It feels a bit more “raked out” too as a result (partially because the axle to crown height is longer too). The DVO turns significantly better. Handling overall is much improved. I expected there would be some trade offs with high speed stability. Mammoth has plenty of super fast (Strava had me at ~42mph whatever that’s worth) and loose fireroad and ski-run type trails to test this on (Kamikaze, Toll road, etc.). Doing some A-B comparisons with the Dorado I noticed almost no reduction in stability with the DVO. I wonder if that’s because the reduced torsional rigidity of the Dorado makes up for the added stability of the larger offset?
C. Height
The axle to crown is shorter on the DVO, I like that. ‘nuff said. Unfortunately they do not make a top crown for it. So I’m having one custom made to get the bars high enough.
D. CTA
One of the things I’ve noticed with the Dorado is the torsional flex of the fork in rough, deep rock gardens. I think as a bigger guy I’m more apt to notice this short coming. I’m not convinced that a normal sized person would have a problem with it though. The Emerald however has all the stiffness attributes of a right-side-up fork. You would never know that you are riding an inverted fork. It definitely improves low speed performance, and it holds lines much better in rocky sections. The CTA is the real deal. Torsional stiffness is noticeably improved over the Dorado. I have not tried riding without it yet. I might take it off for a run if I feel like risking damaging the stanchions, we’ll see.
II. Air Spring:
The air spring is quite good. It’s smooth like a coil, no detectable friction from the added seals of an air spring, very similar to the Dorado. The OTT is nice, real nice. It makes a huge difference and is probably the coolest, most useful feature on the bike. It goes beyond just allowing you to adjust the suppleness of the initial inch of travel. It allows you to tune the entire progressivity of the air spring when you play with the air spring pressure as well. You end up screwing with the OTT/spring rate more than you do with the damping adjusters on the fork.
The Dorado I’ve noticed has a tendency to gradually lose travel. Supposedly that’s due to air in the positive spring leaking past the check valve into the negative spring chamber (or something). I have not noticed such a problem with the Emerald over similar time scales.
III. Damper:
The Dorado’s biggest, more glaring problem is the total lack of midstroke support. I find that no matter what I do on that fork I’m constantly engaging the bottom out system on it (luckily the bottom out system is badass). As a result that fork is always packing down and deflects easily in long sustained rock gardens. High air pressure, thicker oil, compression adjusters cranked all the way in, fast rebound, none of those solve the problem. The DVO does not have that problem at all. You get as much midstroke support as you want, and as result the fork stays in a much more active portion of its travel.
I am able to run quite a bit of rebound damping on the DVO, more so that the Dorado. It stays a lot higher in the travel so I don’t have to worry about it packing down if I run the rebound slow. Being able to run slower rebound makes it really nice for high speed rock stuff since it won’t have that pogo feeling and stays much more controlled.
The compression adjusters make a difference. They have a narrower range of adjustment than the Dorado though. I’ve found I like the HSC far out, and the LSC mid way in the adjustment range. The HSC seem to mostly add harshness without improving chassis control. Turning in the LSC helps improve the support in turns/braking/drops pretty well.
IV. Durability/Maintenance:
The Dorado is ridiculously easy to maintain, and for the most part has been trouble free. Only quirks are A. Some of the Dorado’s I’ve had have come from the factory with zero grease on the seals which caused them to leak right away, easily remedied. B. I bent the air spring shaft on one. But that was from overshooting a 30ft table to flat and crashing in a spectacular fashion.
So far so good with the DVO. I haven’t spent anywhere near enough time to consider a long term review, but it hasn’t had any obvious defects so far. I’m heading to whistler next week with both forks, so more thoughts and comments may follow that. I haven’t pulled it apart either yet, so I can’t speak to it’s ease of maintenance either, supposedly it’s just as easy as the Dorado.
Overall:
The Emerald is the best fork I’ve run. It has a very moto feel to it. Much more controlled than other forks. I’m probably going to buy a second one for my backup DH bike to replace the Dorado at some point. The biggest shortcoming is the price. If you’re a bigshot, go for it.
Emerald:
Chassis: A++
Spring: A
Damper: A- (initial tune was sub par)
Value: B+ (it’s pricey)
Dorado Expert
Chassis: B+
Spring: B (getting stuck down)
Damper: B+ (poor midstroke support)
Value: A (price is great)
http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-freeride/dorado-vs-dvo-emerald-928784.html
DVO review
Summary:
DVO has a vastly superior chassis to other fork offerings and significantly better damper performance. Although it is slightly heavier, I didn’t notice it while riding, generally, except when trying to manual maybe? Although I’m larger (and STRONGER!
) than the average rider. The stock tune was not very good, a bit harsh, but after I had them retune the compression stack, it is quite impressive.Background:
Over the past few years I’ve run a variety of 888s including one with an Avy damper. The last year I’ve ridden a few Dorados (expert/pro, different years), and this year have been alternating between the Dorado and the Emerald. I think that Dorado is probably the second best fork on the market (and the expert is certainly the best value), so for most of the review I’ll be doing an A-B comparison of the 2.
I’ve explored the full tuning range of the Dorado (oil heights and weights, adjusters, spring rates, but not hardware/shim stack tuning) but have yet to do the same with the Emerald. In the past 8 years I’ve run a 40 and some different boxxers *shudders*, some 66’s, old Manitou shermans, 55’s, pikes, and more. I have not ridden any of the recent 40’s, but I’ve bounced around on a few. I still would like to get my hands on a Zoke 380. Although the whole “Let’s underspring every single fork we sell” attitude of Zoke has left me a bit jaded. I’d say I ride at the upper end of the expert level, I’m not especially fast, but at North American resorts I’ll clear most if not all of the most challenging features without much if any trouble.
I. Chassis:
A. Smoothness
This is where the Emerald truly shines. I’ve spent a good amount of time playing with improving the action of 888 and Dorado chassis in the past. Frequent rebuilds, using a variety of different greases on the seals and damper/lubrication oils, etc. So I’m used to a fairly supple fork. The DVO hands down beats any other fork I’ve tried right out of the box, much lower friction from the seals/bushing interface. This is probably due to improved mfg. tolerances. This effect is quite striking, even random Joe Blows who have pushed down on my fork notice it. After a couple of hard resort weekends (Mammoth and Northstar, ~10-15k vert/day) it’s only getting smoother, it’s like a reverse Boxxer! At 225lbs I run a spring rate far higher than most people, and yet the initial inch or so of travel is still significantly more plush than boxxers/40’s/Dorados sprung for people 50 pounds less than me. I notice a SIGNIFICANT improvement in hand fatigue over the Dorado. Which to me is one of the most important aspects of a fork when you’re trying to rack up the days at Northstar.
B. Offset
The DVO has a reduced offset on the crowns compared to the Dorado. That means that the fork is “further back” relative to the headtube. Although this isn’t discussed much in MTB circles, offset is a HUGE tuning parameter in the moto world. A larger offset makes the fork more stable, but a reduced offset should increase low speed handling performance, turning, etc.
I notice that the Dorado has s tendency to want to “flop over” in turns compared to the DVO. It feels a bit more “raked out” too as a result (partially because the axle to crown height is longer too). The DVO turns significantly better. Handling overall is much improved. I expected there would be some trade offs with high speed stability. Mammoth has plenty of super fast (Strava had me at ~42mph whatever that’s worth) and loose fireroad and ski-run type trails to test this on (Kamikaze, Toll road, etc.). Doing some A-B comparisons with the Dorado I noticed almost no reduction in stability with the DVO. I wonder if that’s because the reduced torsional rigidity of the Dorado makes up for the added stability of the larger offset?
C. Height
The axle to crown is shorter on the DVO, I like that. ‘nuff said. Unfortunately they do not make a top crown for it. So I’m having one custom made to get the bars high enough.
D. CTA
One of the things I’ve noticed with the Dorado is the torsional flex of the fork in rough, deep rock gardens. I think as a bigger guy I’m more apt to notice this short coming. I’m not convinced that a normal sized person would have a problem with it though. The Emerald however has all the stiffness attributes of a right-side-up fork. You would never know that you are riding an inverted fork. It definitely improves low speed performance, and it holds lines much better in rocky sections. The CTA is the real deal. Torsional stiffness is noticeably improved over the Dorado. I have not tried riding without it yet. I might take it off for a run if I feel like risking damaging the stanchions, we’ll see.
II. Air Spring:
The air spring is quite good. It’s smooth like a coil, no detectable friction from the added seals of an air spring, very similar to the Dorado. The OTT is nice, real nice. It makes a huge difference and is probably the coolest, most useful feature on the bike. It goes beyond just allowing you to adjust the suppleness of the initial inch of travel. It allows you to tune the entire progressivity of the air spring when you play with the air spring pressure as well. You end up screwing with the OTT/spring rate more than you do with the damping adjusters on the fork.
The Dorado I’ve noticed has a tendency to gradually lose travel. Supposedly that’s due to air in the positive spring leaking past the check valve into the negative spring chamber (or something). I have not noticed such a problem with the Emerald over similar time scales.
III. Damper:
The Dorado’s biggest, more glaring problem is the total lack of midstroke support. I find that no matter what I do on that fork I’m constantly engaging the bottom out system on it (luckily the bottom out system is badass). As a result that fork is always packing down and deflects easily in long sustained rock gardens. High air pressure, thicker oil, compression adjusters cranked all the way in, fast rebound, none of those solve the problem. The DVO does not have that problem at all. You get as much midstroke support as you want, and as result the fork stays in a much more active portion of its travel.
I am able to run quite a bit of rebound damping on the DVO, more so that the Dorado. It stays a lot higher in the travel so I don’t have to worry about it packing down if I run the rebound slow. Being able to run slower rebound makes it really nice for high speed rock stuff since it won’t have that pogo feeling and stays much more controlled.
The compression adjusters make a difference. They have a narrower range of adjustment than the Dorado though. I’ve found I like the HSC far out, and the LSC mid way in the adjustment range. The HSC seem to mostly add harshness without improving chassis control. Turning in the LSC helps improve the support in turns/braking/drops pretty well.
IV. Durability/Maintenance:
The Dorado is ridiculously easy to maintain, and for the most part has been trouble free. Only quirks are A. Some of the Dorado’s I’ve had have come from the factory with zero grease on the seals which caused them to leak right away, easily remedied. B. I bent the air spring shaft on one. But that was from overshooting a 30ft table to flat and crashing in a spectacular fashion.
So far so good with the DVO. I haven’t spent anywhere near enough time to consider a long term review, but it hasn’t had any obvious defects so far. I’m heading to whistler next week with both forks, so more thoughts and comments may follow that. I haven’t pulled it apart either yet, so I can’t speak to it’s ease of maintenance either, supposedly it’s just as easy as the Dorado.
Overall:
The Emerald is the best fork I’ve run. It has a very moto feel to it. Much more controlled than other forks. I’m probably going to buy a second one for my backup DH bike to replace the Dorado at some point. The biggest shortcoming is the price. If you’re a bigshot, go for it.
Emerald:
Chassis: A++
Spring: A
Damper: A- (initial tune was sub par)
Value: B+ (it’s pricey)
Dorado Expert
Chassis: B+
Spring: B (getting stuck down)
Damper: B+ (poor midstroke support)
Value: A (price is great)
The travel creep on the Dorado is indeed due to air bleeding out of the positive chamber into the negative. All you need to do do to bring it up to full travel is attach a pump to the valve, and pull down on the wheel to extend the fork back to topout. Only needs to be done every month (if you're riding a lot) and takes about 3 seconds.
I think between the two or 3 Dorado's I've had, as well as 2-3 other friends Dorado's, they all need to be done almost every day of resort riding. Weather the fork is brand new, clapped out, or freshly rebuilt, or the height of the air valve thingy, none of it seems to make a difference.
Also, just rebuilt my sprind side Dorado leg in 10 minutes this morning! So easy (DVO is basically the same except remoing that CTA). Use slickoleum grease on the seals. It's pricey, but makes it soooooooo smooth.
So from the sounds of it, beefing up the mid valving on the Dorado should take care of any issues. And of course hoping I don't get that travel creeping issue.
I was actually hoping Craig over at Avalanche began putting together adapters for the newer 2015 forks in 27.5. But from what I've been seeing, most new fork internals are now somewhat similar to his cartridge. Would have been nice to just take my 888 Avy cartridge and slap it into the 380 chassis since I already have the heavy and x-heavy ti springs.
As for the DVO offer, tempting but to go 27.5 I need a bunch of new parts (crowns, CTA).
I was actually hoping Craig over at Avalanche began putting together adapters for the newer 2015 forks in 27.5. But from what I've been seeing, most new fork internals are now somewhat similar to his cartridge. Would have been nice to just take my 888 Avy cartridge and slap it into the 380 chassis since I already have the heavy and x-heavy ti springs.
As for the DVO offer, tempting but to go 27.5 I need a bunch of new parts (crowns, CTA).
I'm 200 without gear. The fork feels solid to me, I don't even really feel the flex that people complain about.
BTW, 27.5 fits without any modifications, you need about 4mm of rise from the fully slammed lower crown position.
BTW, 27.5 fits without any modifications, you need about 4mm of rise from the fully slammed lower crown position.
I'm about 230 and the Dorado feels great. I usually reset the air and check the pressures every couple days of riding or so, or every day at the resorts. It seems like altitudes can affect the pressures. Other than that, it's a great fork. Way better than the 888 I came off of.
I'm about 200 geared up and have no problems with my Dorado. However, mine is a coil-converted one MRD 2009. One of the best deals i have ever made regarding mtb. I'm a regular weekend warrior and ride not so hard. For my kind of riding, maintenance is needed once a year. The fork's very active, very supportive, and i don't feel any flex (but as i said, i'm no Sam Hill regarding the speed). Not sure if a coil convertion changes completely the fork, but given its performance till now, i would change it only for a new one or a DVO (in both cases, only if someone makes me a late Christmas present). 