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DH win for Lefty

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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can anyone post a screen cap of the full results? the doc link on pinkbike is blocked by IT for me, and is too small to be legible on my phone.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
LOL. I don't think anyone would question bullets legitimacy as a DH track. Granted, it's not steep, and mammoth seems to be doing everything they can to nerf the main ruck garden, but it's still reasonably challenging.

Anyone know what tires he was running? Please tell me they were dual ply at least.
 
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jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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LOL. I don't think anyone would question bullets legitimacy as a DH track. Granted, it's not steep, and mammoth seems to be doing everything they can to nerf the main ruck garden, but it's still reasonably challenging.

Anyone know what tires he was running? Please tell me they were dual ply at least.
my comment was more in regards to OP discounting the entire race series because of an anomaly that occurred at a single event. and is also why i requested to see the full results list.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I was down this weekend watching.

Noteworthy points

1) Marco killed the overall course on a trail bike. But from the two sections I could see, it wasn't because he was faster in the rough stuff...at all really. He's a pedaling fiend. He didn't look horrible but he did look like he was riding a trail bike and making it work. He just out gassed everyone on the pedals (and there are a lot of spots to do that on bullet). But props for holding it together on the rough bits. In that sense there's certainly a case for him being the best rider, riding the rough bits as well as he did having less to work with in terms of bike forgiveness.

2) The other podium guys on dh bikes were definitely faster in that one rock garden but that's short. Austin Warren destroyed that stretch better than anyone. He and Kevin Aiello were the only ones who actually accelerated out of it.

3) Trail bikes are obviously way better these days but so are dh bikes. Bullet is 14 years old with no real changes other than things that have made it smoother and easier to pin than it was when the track was first cut. Even though it's still fun as hell on a dh bike, there's a lot of flattish meandering that doesn't need to be there.

That course isn't really representative of what should be a challenge for dh racing in 2014 but it's rad to see someone who specializes in endurpo shake things up like that. Maybe it will get people off their asses to build some burlier tracks. Bullet is a long track with a few burly sections. But it was built when most dh bikes were 7" of travel with 15" bottom brackets and 68 degree head angles. The bike that won this race was better built than that, lefty and all.

Horses for courses......props to marco. I know that wasn't easy. He got a buddy of mine to film him over and over again through sections and practiced the hell out of them. He earned it, straight up.

Now let's build some better courses and never let this happen again :D
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Well to be fair, bullet ain't just an 8% grade bmx track. There's some steep and fairly rough bits to it. Marco can ride. It's not like nino shurter just won.
(yes people, I know he can do bowlegged bar turns, don't bother posting it)


But it looks like national champs is going to be at mammoth next year. I know pretty much everyone wants a new track. It's time.

Especially after this just happened. ;)
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
But it looks like national champs is going to be at mammoth next year. I know pretty much everyone wants a new track. It's time.

Especially after this just happened. ;)
Come on, they haven't built a new DH track in a decade, they have been busy closing trails this year though. We all know they will never build a new proper DH race track.

All they need to do is reopen Upper Velocity, run it down that and then across to chainsmoke. Add some big kickers on the traverse between the 2, and then add some real lips to the jumps at the bottom of chainsmoke and a giant finish line step down. If they do that it will be the sickest Nat's course basically....ever (in the USA). They will be carting people off in body bags, it will be awesome.
 

ritche

Monkey
Dec 3, 2011
311
19
The list of DH anomalies continues... flat pedals, 29ers, neck braces, Rimming (Gwin), single crown, enduring bikes (Graves), chain less, rat to flat, and now all mountain lefty forks.

Meme time:
Marco: I don't usually win downhill races, but when i do, I "out pedaled" the competition.

*carrying speed/ flow (Neko, SH) or all out pedaling (GM) depends on how steep or flat the DH race track.

How custom is marco's Lefy, fork? Customed for DH?.

* fixing a flat tire without removing the front wheel on a lefty fork, is the advantage i can think off, aside from the fork's stiffness and weight.
 

Sandwich

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May 23, 2002
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I don't know how custom it is, but I doubt the chassis has any problems. I liked the lefty that I rode for a while, I just hated not being able to really adjust the damping, so it was kind of a diving mess. It was just a diving mess that absorbed bumps even when you were on the brakes going around a corner.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Lefties are pretty cool. It's the only kind of invert that should exist in MTB, flat faced stanchions and roller bearings. Imagine if there were two of them! :cupidarrow:

But hey, let's ignore the existing technology and try to add torsional stiffness with a carbon arch that is still attached near the axle... or keyways in polymer-coated bushings. Let's see how long those last, X-Spewsion.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
Yup. My Lefty was super stiff and super smooth, but such a hassle to service. If they were to take the current one and add a second leg, it would make for an incredibly strong fork.... just probably really expensive.
 

ritche

Monkey
Dec 3, 2011
311
19
Is the lefty's front hubs still propriety. or there are after market hubs available?

Advantage also you can also fit any wheel size you want, cool, no idea if a fat bike tire would fit too.

*roller Bearings instead of stanchions sliding on bushings, why not the big 3 fork company do that?

World cup/champs contender?, Dh version upped to 180 mm.

 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
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Lefties are pretty cool. It's the only kind of invert that should exist in MTB, flat faced stanchions and roller bearings. Imagine if there were two of them!
To be fair, the Lefty has its own problems like losing travel over time and having to be "re-set" and the less than inspiring dampers. But I agree, it would be a good idea to try the system at least out for a dual leg fork. I thought Cannondale did that with those custom forks for Volvo Cannondale before they switched to Dorados. Guess they were too heavy.
 

jonKranked

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Sandwich

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May 23, 2002
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Lots of people run lefties on fat bikes. It's an excellent solution. Most people run special crowns to space it over.

The bearing reset is really easy to do, and the modern ones you don't even have to disassemble it. I'd say the process is roughly 1/10th as difficult as dropping the lowers on a boxxer (release air, take off the cap with a BB tool, bang it around, put it back together and air up). The modern ones are built so you just bottom the fork out and it resets.

Hubs for the fork are available from 321, Industry neuf, DT swish, cheapy chinese stuff, and now even king. The cannondale hub is both cheap and light.

The lefty's biggest problem is that it's made by cannondale, so everything is proprietary with a serious focus on XC racing. If they made a pressurized damper that could be easily serviced with external low AND high speed compression? It might be a competitor. All the lefties I've ridden have been incredibly smooth and supple but not terribly supportive and either divey or too firm, but the ability of the fork to track even when you're coming in all retarded into a corner is pretty impressive. Lots of other manufacturers are very close to the same level of smoothness now though.
 

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
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Bleedmore, Murderland
The lefty's biggest problem is that it's made by cannondale, so everything is proprietary
I worked at a Cannondale dealer in College and we were a certified Headshock and Lefty service shop, the only one within 3+ hours. We had all the proprietary tools to service their forks, which at the time, were very straight forward and pretty easy to service (with said tools.) We used to have people call from hours away to schedule a service on their fork. So much so, that the owner of the shop created a package where you would schedule the fork service 2 weeks out, and we would do a same day rebuild. They would get to the shop an hour before we opened, we would get them a loaner/demo bike, map of the local trails with a suggested 2.5-3 hour loop, goodie bag with clif bars and gels, and I would rebuild the fork while they were riding. A year after I started working there we stopped carrying C-dale (right around the motorcross years), but we still had all the proprietary tools so I'd still service 1 or 2 C-dale forks or shocks a month. I remember them being pretty straightforward, and when those needle bearings were fresh after a rebuild with new grease they were smoooooooooth. No idea how complicated they are on today's lefty's....
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
Well I believe they're onto something with the top half of the stanchion being square for the needle bearings, and the lower being round for a conventional bushing/seal combo. Manitou is doing their hex axle and DVO is doing that carbon arch. I'm thinking two Lefty legs would be stiffer than these two. You used to have the option of upgrading to a Manitou TPC damper in the Lefty Max years ago. I don't think it would be hard for Cannondale to build the insides of the fork to fit the damper of another company. Unfortunately I don't think people would go for it though.
 

Sandwich

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May 23, 2002
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I think there is some inherent problem with roller bearings and long travel. I think you end up needing a TON of overlap to get the bearings to have room to roll. It's not too bad on a short travel fork, but I was under the impression that this is why there are no long (DH long) travel lefties. The newer ones take the old goofy boot and move the whole roller assembly up top, leaving a small bushing and wiper seal on the bottom, so I wonder if that leaves room for more travel/flexibility with regards to bearing movement.
 

ritche

Monkey
Dec 3, 2011
311
19
Lefty Stiff, double leg fork flexed, won't slide..
( posted at pb on Marco article)
 
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