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chain too long when using 40\42 teeth cassette

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
I'm asking this here, becouse..... this is the best place to get good info....
hi guys

been riding with 1\10 setup (on my AM bike)
36teeth front N\W
11-40 (oneup) cassette

I find that for using this setup, I need the chain to be long.
when its on the 40 \42 teet at the back, its OK.
but when using higher gears, like the 11teeth, that bring the chain to bee too free, with not enough tension.
the problem with this is when riding down the hill. when you use the smallest gear at the cassette.
what leads sometimes to the chain bounc out off the front chainring. (even with upper guide)

is there a solution for that?

thanks
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
When it's in first in the back, is the derailleur tensioned a lot or is there still a lot of slack? If there's slack, take out a link and that should help.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,850
9,556
AK
Lots of people have those setups and don't bounce. My 30-36 setup is probably a similar ratio of big cassette gear to front chainring, and I don't have any problems. How do you measure your chain length?
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
I used to run Zee w/short cage with 11-40T on a FS bike with considerable chain growth and while the was no room for chain length error, it worked quite OK. There's something wrong if a long cage does not work with a 1x10 setup.
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
I run 36 front/40 rear with SRAM 10 spd and no problems at all. Medium cage derailleur.

Something is not setup correctly.

Couldn't bring myself to watch the Ibis vid, but I wrap chain over 40t and 36t (not through derailleur) and add 2 links to get length.
Old school roadie chit.
 

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
guys, thanks
I know how to setup everything and all
what I wanted here is to say that with bigger teeth in the back, and bigger in front, even the best setup, will make the tension not so good.
I now run my bike with shorter chain, that will probably wont make full travel when I'm in the biggest gear in the back... just to make the tension better.
I think its time to make an improvement for this kind of setup... maybe to add a tensioner somewher ... (sorry for my english, hope you understand)
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,067
3,778
sw ontario canada
Rethal 32 or 34 tooth front
Praxxis 10 speed 11-40 cassette
KMC X10-SL Ti chain
SRAM X9 clutch medium cage
MRP guide
2014 Knolly Endorphin

Loving it! - Not had a problem with either shifter-ing or retention.

As said before,the biggest trick to getting this setup working, was the B Tension Screw adjustment.
 
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mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,067
3,778
sw ontario canada
Don't forget to size the chain correctly, you need to be able to cycle the suspension to the point of maximum chain growth by either removing the spring, or deflating the air can.

If the frame you run has quite a bit of chain growth, you just may be at the limit between drivetrain and suspension slack - may just be too much for the derailleur to take up.

A full front guide may be required - and don't forget to take into account the idler wheel / slide block etc on a full guide when sizing the chain.
 
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slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,288
5,028
Ottawa, Canada
guys, thanks
I know how to setup everything and all
what I wanted here is to say that with bigger teeth in the back, and bigger in front, even the best setup, will make the tension not so good.
well then what are you asking our advice for?!
I now run my bike with shorter chain, that will probably wont make full travel when I'm in the biggest gear in the back... just to make the tension better.
this sounds like a recipe for an exploded chain
yes. its tensioned.
yes its clutch
hmmm. maybe the x9 is your problem. I'm not a scram guy, but it seems to me that SRAM's 1x stuff has that new fancy "parallellogram" thingy, and the older x9 stuff doesn't. Also, the shape and placement of the cage is different isn't it? Which is why oneUp have their replacement cage for Shimano stuff?
 

OBB

Monkey
Sep 25, 2008
157
3
Sounds like something is fishy.

My setup was 34 N/W front, with a 42 OneUp rear, and an X0 medium cage RD. No issues with too long of a chain in a bike that gets 20mm of chain growth throughout the range of travel.

I've dropped chains due to a worn chainring and undertensioned clutch (T2 RD with adjustable clutch). Without those issues, dropped chains haven't been an issue, even while riding in the Whistler Bike park where the speeds and bumps are faster and more frequent.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
You really shouldn't worry about full travel in your biggest gear. When was the last time you bottomed your bike in the granny gear?
When riding up some stupid short punchy climb in Canada, just to top out for an instant on another stupid rock face before rolling down into another stupid runout with another stupid turn at the bottom which then goes into another stupid punchy climb just to get to the top of another stupid rock face.
 
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SDet

Monkey
Nov 19, 2014
150
42
Boulder Co
When riding up some stupid short punchy climb in Canada, just to top out for an instant on another stupid rock face before rolling down into another stupid runout with another stupid turn at the bottom which then goes into another stupid punchy climb just to get to the top of another stupid rock face.
Mtg and I rode that trail, do not recommend. But, on any good riding, it's not a problem.
 

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
You try to go continuously downhill on "descents" outside of the bike park.


It's like Canadian antimatter. Just can't happen up there. :rofl:


My results are backed in the available peer reviewed literature:

You're just mad because the locals gnur bros wouldn't show you all the top secret nugs we keep hidden from the tourists ;) This map is a 100% accurate representation of It's Business Time however.
 

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
@mykel
32 fronr with 40 rear, will still be shorter then 36 front and 42 rear.
I just cant ride with 34 or 32, I cant pedal with that when going down... I need 36 teeth front when pedaling downhills....
I cut the chain now even it wont make it to full travel when on the 40\42 rear, becouse as @SDet said, when climbing, you really dont get to full travel.
the X9 is type2.1, so I think its not the problem.
I wish I could have a 8teeth smallest on the cassette.... thats way, I could use a 34 front. and the chin would have been shorter.
 

OBB

Monkey
Sep 25, 2008
157
3
@mykel
32 fronr with 40 rear, will still be shorter then 36 front and 42 rear.
I just cant ride with 34 or 32, I cant pedal with that when going down... I need 36 teeth front when pedaling downhills....
I cut the chain now even it wont make it to full travel when on the 40\42 rear, becouse as @SDet said, when climbing, you really dont get to full travel.
the X9 is type2.1, so I think its not the problem.
I wish I could have a 8teeth smallest on the cassette.... thats way, I could use a 34 front. and the chin would have been shorter.
You clearly don't understand how drivetrain capacity works, so I will post this link for you. It doesn't matter what size chainring you have at the front, since it's only one ring then the capacity is only affected by the cassette. The capacity of your supposed long cage SRAM derailleur is 43t, far more than the 31 you have on the cassette. So your problem is elsewhere. Type 2.1 SRAM derailleurs are not adjustable, and therefore will eventually wear out. Long cage derailleurs also are less effective as they allow alot of chain movement for a given amount of cage movement.
 

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
check my idea
I think no matter what we do, when going bigger on the back like 40-42 or today even 44...
the chain tension will be poor when using the 11 teeth when going downhill.
so maybe we need to have another chain guide up front, one that will also have a spring and pulley like on the derailleur,
and that will keep the chain tension.
full_e13_617608.jpg
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
You're just mad because the locals gnur bros wouldn't show you all the top secret nugs we keep hidden from the tourists ;) T
Which is exactly what everyone I know who lives up there says right before taking me on another trail that just got built that's "totally different" and ends up being exactly the same. ;)

Again, covered in the literature:
Hate to break it to you guys, but your trails suck.
I'm not going to tell you what trails I rode because already I know, no matter which North shore trails I rode, the locals will say "oh yeah, well those aren't the good ones. Trust me, if you'd ridden [xyz trails with exactly the same fundamental qualities but slight superficial differences] you'd be pumped."
http://theteamrobot.blogspot.com/2015/05/a-message-to-cam-mcrae-and-pete-roggeman.html

It's hard to be too mad when all of the riding I've ever done up there is surrounded by 6-8 hour days in the bike park with afternoon dirtjump sessions. But the valley especially has the stamp of a bunch of trails built by guys who absolutely love pedaling and ride hardtail 29ers almost full time.

Business time.....eesh
To be fair though even some of the newer stuff (like out there) is a similar theme. Ooh rock roll! We MUST go there rather than let the trail continue downhill and pass it by! You know what I'm talking about. Because you come from another country. I've learned that this is what it takes.
 

shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
499
354
If we wanted just straight up DH we'd ride the Park.

And Charlie didn't ride the good in North Van so his rant is mute.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Well now there's a logical conunununununundrumm


Either there's good sustained descending and charlie just didn't ride it, or there is no good sustained descending because no one bothers building it since there's the park.


Stop confusing me. :D


Either way there's tons of uphill punches to get on top of non climactic rolling down the other side with not much runout to maintain momentum. You know this. You also know I just do this shit for fun ;)


 
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dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,194
4,419
I miss the pedal up for an hour, bomb down for 15 mins. Riding in California ruins you for a lot of riding elsewhere. In short: better be ready to pedal.

Well now there's a logical conunununununundrumm


Either there's good sustained descending and charlie just didn't ride it, or there is no good sustained descending because no one bothers building it since there's the park.


Stop confusing me. :D


Either way there's tons of uphill punches to get on top of non climactic rolling down the other side with not much runout to maintain momentum. You know this. You also know I just do this shit for fun ;)


 

MmmBones

Monkey
May 8, 2011
272
84
Porkland, OR
check my idea
I think no matter what we do, when going bigger on the back like 40-42 or today even 44...
the chain tension will be poor when using the 11 teeth when going downhill.
so maybe we need to have another chain guide up front, one that will also have a spring and pulley like on the derailleur,
and that will keep the chain tension.View attachment 121017

I think if you add moar chain retention for the bouncing of your sprung device, it might just work...

full_e13_617608.jpg