[bullcrew]

Saw it listed and called him on it

http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Fox 40/Fox 40 RC.htm

It apparently is a semi open bath self leveling so as long as you add a certain amount of oil (100ccs) in no measuring oil depth after the fact.
also has a bottoming system and 3 springs available for Preload on oil system soft/medium/firm that way for more progression or linear you can adjust it as well as it keeps a constant pressure on oil to avoid cavitation and unlike nitrogen it doesn't ramp up harsh and gain internal pressure.
It is a inverted system as well so reb/comp will be flip flopped from standard cartridge .

Craig said all parts are in design and production so it will have a mid/late march release but it is officially a go now.

It is a user serviceable system so now sending it off and having the spring changed out or revalving it is completely user serviceable and to those skilled to Reebok re findable in field with no special tools or nitrogen/air tanks needed so it can be done in the pits.

 

[jonKranked]

finally!


five hundo!?

 

[bullcrew]

finally!


five hundo!?

Don't you have some boxxes to go build or something. Lol

When you coming back out?

 

[jonKranked]

Don't you have some boxxes to go build or something. Lol

When you coming back out?

funny guy! i work in medical now, so no boxes, mostly sterile process packaging. i actually split my time between NJ and salt lake, so if you've ever up that way...

 

[bullcrew]

funny guy! i work in medical now, so no boxes, mostly sterile process packaging. i actually split my time between NJ and salt lake, so if you've ever up that way...

Lol I had several things typed for your sterile comment but like always ill keep it clean.
Yeah let me know ill call chris and we will go ride. We can split the different and go do moab or southern utah

 

[jonKranked]

Lol I had several things typed for your sterile comment but like always ill keep it clean.
Yeah let me know ill call chris and we will go ride. We can split the different and go do moab or southern utah

i'll keep that in mind come springtime! any chance one of you guys could loan me a bike?

 

[bullcrew]

i'll keep that in mind come springtime! any chance one of you guys could loan me a bike?

Always. Not a issue.

 

[climbingbubba]

funny guy! i work in medical now, so no boxes, mostly sterile process packaging. i actually split my time between NJ and salt lake, so if you've ever up that way...

I also work medical and live in SLC ha ha. If you ever want to ride some DH id be down.

Just got a 2012 fox 40 so I am excited to see how it does. Do you guys think the avalanche cart would make a $500 performance difference over the stock fit cart? I have heard nothing but good things about the fox damper.

 

[norbar]

It's not a 500$ over any damper as well as all other top shelf upgrades and parts. That being said kudos for Craig for doing it but I'm suprised why one would want a FOX 40 Ava over a boxxer or even a marz one? Unless the skf seals and the kashima make that much of a differance. I'm curious for someone who has tried both to do a comparison.

 

[bullcrew]

Mainly older fox forks, updating the cartridge is pricey not too mention it was dealer only serviceable sending it in. this is user serviceable and pre rc2 fox internals hated heavy riders and were notorious high maintenance so this would be a great upgrade to blown internals.

Plus the construction and design should lend itself to reliability long term and end consumer can reshim and tune it themselves which is not a normal fox offering.

 

[norbar]

I get that and I see it as an upgrade but I just think it's better to sell your fox and buy a beaten boxxer/zoke box.

Travis will you have a chance to try a Kashima Avy 40s? I wonder if they perform much better than Boxxer Avy.

 

[tacubaya]

I know English is not my first language, but damn it Bullcrew I didn't understand sh1t you said...

 

[bullcrew]

I know English is not my first language, but damn it Bullcrew I didn't understand sh1t you said...

Got to love my Droid phone and big hands lol.
I can't read half my stuff with customers coming in distractions etc plus spell check takes over and it has some serious oddities.
So tacubaya ill go back and edit it lol......

 

[bullcrew]

Yes I will be running a new fox 40 with the new cartridge.

I looked at the drawings and it has a centering ball or du bushing that allows the cartridge to self center upon compression which is pretty cool in terms of internal rubbing or binding on fork flex. Should keep it smooth when flexed.

 

[HardtailHack]

Saw it listed and called him on it
http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Fox 40/Fox 40 RC.htm


It apparently is a semi open bath self leveling so as long as you out a certain amount of oil in no measuring after the fact.

Is that Chinglish? I don't understand.

 

[bullcrew]

Is that Chinglish? I don't understand.

droid Latin!

 

[baca262]

erm, i've studied latin in high school and i still don't know what to make of that sentence

so, if i understand correctly, it's going to have a spring loaded ifp (888cr style)? will this be available for other forks or only fox 40?

 

[Udi]

So now we can start a thread on clunking avalanche 40's as well?

I don't see the point, the new inverted damper works well. For the supposed price of $499 (?!) I'd rather invest in an inverted damper, kashima stanchions, and SKF seals if I owned an older 40.

 

[norbar]

So now we can start a thread on clunking avalanche 40's as well?

I don't see the point, the new inverted damper works well. For the supposed price of $499 (?!) I'd rather invest in an inverted damper, kashima stanchions, and SKF seals if I owned an older 40.

Udi I'd be really curious about your opinion on avy carts. Have you tried one? I'm yet to test ride a new fox.

 

[no skid marks]

UDI would love an Avvy cart, endless tuning and experimenting. I think he's comment on this 40 cart is a simple question of economics, and the other benefit a new 40 offers(better seals, slippery stanchions, and an already good cart)Vs doing up/investing in an older 40 chassis. With a dash of anti fan boyism thrown in. I may be wrong.

 

[Udi]

I'm sure it's an improvement on the Boxxer damper but there seem to be endless issues with clunking that a few people can't get rid of, as well as wear issues on the bottom out cone. Compare that to the 40 damper which is now fairly mature, has its issues ironed out, and has a reliable bottom out system. It's always cool to see new developments, but perhaps this one is answering a question no one asked.

I'd happily try one if it were given to me, but I can't see it offering any improvements over the updated damper on the 40 chassis - in fact it's actually taking away external adjustability (HSC stack preload) which I like and use semi-regularly.

It might be an upgrade for someone with the older damper, but at $500 you could probably buy the new inverted 2011-2012 cartridge and have money left over to put towards (or perhaps even cover) kashima stanchions / SKF seals which would improve the chassis smoothness and reliability rather than just upgrading the damper.

One thing I am curious about - when they say semi-bath, does it / can it use separate fluids for damping and lubrication? I think that's one benefit on the stock setup, as you can tailor products to each purpose.

 

[norbar]

I feel like it's an improvement both on MiCo in my boxxer as well as my 07 zoke. Not enough time on the others. Though I have no issues with my avy cart.

 

[bullcrew]

Yeah a couple of clunks out of several and bottom out cones getting smacked usually cause the chamfered edge was upside down on oil lock ring.
Mine doesn't clunk at all neither does several buddies as far as the clunk I'm curious to see what it is.
As far as the bottoming cone or oil lock ring they get replaced in mx alot as they get hammered regularly it becomes a consumable.

I do agree the new cart is solid that fox has I loved my 36.

I like the user serviceable aspect of it I thought a new damper was $350+ for the rc2 plus knobs. Skf seals regardless of year are a good thing for the 40rc2 and 36.

 

[mattmatt86]

 

[offtheedge]

I don't wonder why, but $500 is a chunk to spend on a really good fork as is.

 

[marshalolson]

I'm sure it's an improvement on the Boxxer damper but there seem to be endless issues with clunking that a few people can't get rid of, as well as wear issues on the bottom out cone. Compare that to the 40 damper which is now fairly mature, has its issues ironed out, and has a reliable bottom out system. It's always cool to see new developments, but perhaps this one is answering a question no one asked.

I'd happily try one if it were given to me, but I can't see it offering any improvements over the updated damper on the 40 chassis - in fact it's actually taking away external adjustability (HSC stack preload) which I like and use semi-regularly.

It might be an upgrade for someone with the older damper, but at $500 you could probably buy the new inverted 2011-2012 cartridge and have money left over to put towards (or perhaps even cover) kashima stanchions / SKF seals which would improve the chassis smoothness and reliability rather than just upgrading the damper.

One thing I am curious about - when they say semi-bath, does it / can it use separate fluids for damping and lubrication? I think that's one benefit on the stock setup, as you can tailor products to each purpose.

pretty sure the newest FIT cartridge is $275...

 

[Jm_]

I'm sure it's an improvement on the Boxxer damper but there seem to be endless issues with clunking that a few people can't get rid of, as well as wear issues on the bottom out cone. Compare that to the 40 damper which is now fairly mature, has its issues ironed out, and has a reliable bottom out system. It's always cool to see new developments, but perhaps this one is answering a question no one asked.

I'd happily try one if it were given to me, but I can't see it offering any improvements over the updated damper on the 40 chassis - in fact it's actually taking away external adjustability (HSC stack preload) which I like and use semi-regularly.

It might be an upgrade for someone with the older damper, but at $500 you could probably buy the new inverted 2011-2012 cartridge and have money left over to put towards (or perhaps even cover) kashima stanchions / SKF seals which would improve the chassis smoothness and reliability rather than just upgrading the damper.

One thing I am curious about - when they say semi-bath, does it / can it use separate fluids for damping and lubrication? I think that's one benefit on the stock setup, as you can tailor products to each purpose.

I don't have any clunking? What am I doing wrong?

As if a new 2012 fork chassi is that much better than a few years ago? Just because fox can't man up and use real oil seals during that time period is no reason to buy an entirely new fox fork when you get get an avy cart for your previous or just buy a fork used or new on the cheap for the chassi. I think the real point is spending $1600+ on a brand new fork given the performance that can be had with just a cart is pretty much pointless. At this point it's marginal to zero gains if you're buying a fork just for "kashima", but no doubt, fox has done a great marketing job of making people think this is necessary (again, poor lubrication/sealing system).

Fox has had like 10 years to come up with a decently sealed system? Marzocchi has had even longer to come up with decent damping, and RS at least jumped ahead in some respects, but was late to the game with their chassi. It seems like everyone is "hoping" their favorite company is going to put out the "perfect fork" finally, but for those of you that dont want to wait, or spend all that hard earned money, you can have the same or better performance for a lot less.

 

[bullcrew]

I don't have any clunking? What am I doing wrong?

I'm putting caps in mine so it snaps! so now you have to use pop its I got dibs on caps.

 

[p-spec]

Im blown away at the performance of the skf seals,cannot wait to get them on my 11' p.s I really like the inverted cart mine has,but I'd love to try an avy one for sure before droping 500,the 40 is out of the box a really strong contender,its only flaw,noisy.

 

[descente]

where does the oil go?

 

[gonefirefightin]

you guys crack me up with all these new wizmo bango shimzy cartridged gadgets that happen to be the newest thing when there is probably only a handful of people on the planet that could push a stock fox 40 to its full potential.

Just ride

 

[csermonet]

^^ agreed. That could be said for any new fork. Not many riders out there can set up a fork to get the most performance possible out of it, and then be able to push it to its limits and be able to tell where it can be improved. In my opinion at least. $500 is alot to spend, i would like to try it out and see if I could justify the money. I am definitely no suspension guru and certainly no pro, so I am having a hard time justifying spending the money.

 

[Jm_]

And you do of course realize they are usually set with conservative tunes and pistons that will hydrolock under extremes to prevent damage. A custom tune and piston allows for a more agressive piston and better flow, although you are correct that you might be within fox's intended weight range. Just a few lbs over or under this and a revalve is in order at least. But, this product isnt meant to really compete with or be a dramatic upgrade for a new fork if you just bought one.

 

[Sandwich]

you guys crack me up with all these new wizmo bango shimzy cartridged gadgets that happen to be the newest thing when there is probably only a handful of people on the planet that could push a stock fox 40 to its full potential.

Just ride

This dead horse has been thoroughly beaten. Let's not get into pushing our equipment like pros do; we're a rider community that likes tweaking and new products. Go ride your 2001 Boxxer and super 8, and we'll stick with tweaking our whizmo shimz0r stackwiches.

Besides, avalanches greatest claim to fame, in my opinion, has always been their dead reliability over outright performance. I'd argue that cane creek and others may have better and more adjustments, or tuning options like boost valves that avy doesn't, but avalanche stuff just works, all the time. Great seals, good oil volumes, and user serviceable equipment gives avy stuff a leg up on the competition most of the time.

That being said, these avy carts seem to have a hard time living up to their namesake, although I believe it has more to do with the chassis than the cart. Why drop a good damper into a chassis that still has inferior seals or bad bushings? Why drop a $400 cart into a boxxer where half the castings are crooked, causing issues with the cart down the line? I'd love to grab an avy equipped fork, but spending extra moolah on something that's already prone to issues gives me the willies. None of the big names seem to have a great handle on solid chassis, good bushings, and good seals, besides potentially Marzocchi and they're still figuring things out.

Maybe Avy should start releasing seals and bushing inserts for the other guys in addition to their cartridges. My DHF was dead reliable, just too heavy and had poor geometry. That's what I want in an upgrade.

 

[Udi]

And you do of course realize they are usually set with conservative tunes and pistons that will hydrolock under extremes to prevent damage. A custom tune and piston allows for a more agressive piston and better flow, although you are correct that you might be within fox's intended weight range.

Incorrect.

1. Hydrolocking (or rather, spiking since you're referring to damping pistons) isn't going to prevent damage, if anything it will increase load on a number of other parts and possibly cause harm to the rider. Thankfully, no major manufacturer I know of designs anything to hydrolock.

2. A conservative tune and piston is the exact opposite of what you describe. Pistons are usually designed with more than enough flow in terms of port area alone, and valving (especially in compression) is almost always erring on the side of too-little, thus nowhere near spiking, and thus the opposite of what you suggest. This has been the case for every off-the-shelf Fox product I have owned.

3. Newer (2011+) products have enough damping range to cater for virtually anyone short of top-30 WC level IMO.

As if a new 2012 fork chassi is that much better than a few years ago? Just because fox can't man up and use real oil seals during that time period is no reason to buy an entirely new fox fork when you get get an avy cart for your previous or just buy a fork used or new on the cheap for the chassi. I think the real point is spending $1600+ on a brand new fork given the performance that can be had with just a cart is pretty much pointless. At this point it's marginal to zero gains if you're buying a fork just for "kashima", but no doubt, fox has done a great marketing job of making people think this is necessary (again, poor lubrication/sealing system).

Fox has had like 10 years to come up with a decently sealed system? Marzocchi has had even longer to come up with decent damping, and RS at least jumped ahead in some respects, but was late to the game with their chassi. It seems like everyone is "hoping" their favorite company is going to put out the "perfect fork" finally, but for those of you that dont want to wait, or spend all that hard earned money, you can have the same or better performance for a lot less.

1. If the problem is the seals, a replacement damper cartridge is going to change nothing.

2. The new chassis brings to the table a number of improvements in both stiction reduction and durability - thankfully a lot of the improved parts can be fitter to older models. I've tried the old and new models back to back on the same frame and setup and there are notable differences.

3. Your claim of "poor lubrication / sealing system" suggests you haven't owned one of their forks before. Twin slotted bushings before any other manufacturer put them ahead of the game in terms of lubrication, and with a sealed damper cartridge and generous lubrication bath (50-60cc/lower is more than most semi-bath designs) means that even if leaking did occur, it would be a non-issue. Again, if you'd owned the new chassis you'd have noticed the SKF items that slide and seal better.

4. There's absolutely no need for what you (incorrectly) consider a proper sealing system in a design that has generous air volume at bottom out (thus low pressures) and semi-bath lubrication. Two things to note here. The first is that in a twin-seal design with dedicated pressure seal, there are 2 redundant sealing lips per stanchion - the upper wiping lip on the pressure seal, and the lower sealing lip on the wiper seal - this is unnecessary and adds excess stiction, especially in a low-pressure configuration. The second is that running a pressure seal will actually prevent the lubrication system from working as intended, as the foam ring would either have to be removed or repositioned above the pressure seal - both meaning that oil can no longer be stored above the upper slotted bushing.

 

[no skid marks]

4. There's absolutely no need for what you (incorrectly) consider a proper sealing system in a design that has generous air volume at bottom out (thus low pressures) and semi-bath lubrication. Two things to note here. The first is that in a twin-seal design with dedicated pressure seal, there are 2 redundant sealing lips per stanchion - the upper wiping lip on the pressure seal, and the lower sealing lip on the wiper seal - this is unnecessary and adds excess stiction, especially in a low-pressure configuration. The second is that running a pressure seal will actually prevent the lubrication system from working as intended, as the foam ring would either have to be removed or repositioned above the pressure seal - both meaning that oil can no longer be stored above the upper slotted bushing.

How long are new Fox 40 seals lasting? If they're as long lasting as 888 seals, great. Until then IMO any miniscule amount of stiction saved(needed for stupidly fat stanchions)is barely worth the trade off for blown seals. If they're lasting longer than the older ones(as I'd hope)then great I'd definitely be keen to try them, and I'm confident I'd not worry with the Avy cart, but if I had spare coin, and time, I'd happily get the new Avy cart to muck about with, sounds great..
How much oil is in the stock 40 cart now? Are the Pros running the same cart? How big is their cart?

 

[jrewing]

the seals for me made a big difference on the retro fit non kashima and are six months and going fine.

 

[IH8Rice]

How much oil is in the stock 40 cart now? Are the Pros running the same cart? How big is their cart?

78.5cc in the new one, 122cc in the old one

 

[no skid marks]

78.5cc in the new one, 122cc in the old one

Shiat, I thought the old amount was conservative. Proof's in the riding I guess. Anyone notice their forks are faster(less damped)at the end of a decent or real rocky run?

 

[baca262]

if that's actually noticable, it's a big flaw of the stock cartridge. this ****ty oil i have in my 888 atm foams up easy too and the faster rebound bucked me so bad i flew into a tree. i was running 16% sag then, though.