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Are Enve carbon rims more prone to pinch flats?

SCARY

Not long enough
I figured since they don't give like aluminum,they would pinch more.I remember the old MAG 20's were super stiff,but they were pinch flat machines.I run pretty high pressure ,but we have alot of rocks.
I thought some hope pro2+enve rims+sapim X-ray spokes would be pretty sick wheels.Just because I want to.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
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Warsaw :/
Probably as prone as 823s. If you or any of your friends are good with those you should be ok with Enve.


BTW. Cx-rays are not the lightest spokes. If you want pimp go either with Sapim Superspoke or that lightest Pillar ones. I will be testing a front wheel on them and they are uber light and supposedly very strong.

As for hubs - rear protone is lighter than hope.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
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BTW. Cx-rays are not the lightest spokes. If you want pimp go either with Sapim Superspoke or that lightest Pillar ones. I will be testing a front wheel on them and they are uber light and supposedly very strong.
But CX-rays are DH proven, Superspoke and Pillar not so. And it doesn't look like Scary is trying to break any weight records but instead get a reliable DH wheelset that has the benefit of being insanely light. :D

BTW: do you have a source for Pillar spokes in Yurp?
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
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But CX-rays are DH proven, Superspoke and Pillar not so. And it doesn't look like Scary is trying to break any weight records but instead get a reliable DH wheelset that has the benefit of being insanely light. :D

BTW: do you have a source for Pillar spokes in Yurp?
Sapim claims superspokes are stronger than cx-rays. It would be strange if they were weaker ;) As for Pillar nope. Very few shops stock them. Mine are a "test" model. They held up under a few uk rippers.
 

SCARY

Not long enough
Enves replacement says you can't use the am rims for dh.We've got a crapload of rocks around here.How would they know the difference if you sent one back?70 grams is alot of weight between the dh and am?Aren't Stans rims around 470-500 gms too?
 

Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
276
59
Spain
999$ Rims + People scared to destroy them + some extra PSI to be on the safe side = Less Pinch flats.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
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Sapim claims superspokes are stronger than cx-rays. It would be strange if they were weaker ;) As for Pillar nope. Very few shops stock them. Mine are a "test" model. They held up under a few uk rippers.
I am not questioning the spoke, rather the 1.8 thread at a crucial interface. ;)
Haven't had much luck with 1.8 Al nips.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
359
Roanoke, VA
I've been using Enve rims for 4 years now.
They're plastic, they move "out of the way" when you'd normally pinch making them much less likely to flat.
It's great.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
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saw a pic a few weeks ago, it would seem as if enve and maxxis are testing a tubular system for DH.
Seriously? Isn't Tubular a PITA to change a tire? I'm not so fond of swapping them in UST so tubular?



@Irider why do you use al nips?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,563
24,182
media blackout
Seriously? Isn't Tubular a PITA to change a tire? I'm not so fond of swapping them in UST so tubular?
yup. and one of the other big questions that was raised is whether or not they'd be prone to getting ripped off the rims when cornering. might be one of the reasons i'm having trouble finding the picture; mighta been scrubbed from the internets b/c its likely still early prototype
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
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I remember seeing that pic somewhere. Still I remember someone mentioning team MS runing schwable tubeless with no problems so why go tubular? I have 2 wheelsets and I'm still not happy about the idea. It's a pro only tech.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
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Why would you first get the lightest spokes possible and then use heavy brass nips?
Because I want to ride on my wheels not hang them on my wall? Light is good but not if it doesn't come with some durability. If you want light all the way just use xc components.
 

was?

Monkey
Mar 9, 2010
268
30
Dresden, Germany
no pun intended, but what is the significant difference between 1.8mm and 2.0mm? I've never heard of nipples ripping during normal use...
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
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Depends what you call normal use. Stuff happens on your bike. I've seen a few ripped nipples on different ocasions.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,908
634
They are ok but with 1.8 I'd use brass. It all depends on the situation.
I'm semi inclined to agree and disagree with norbar simultaneously.

You'll save like what, 20g with alu instead of brass? I guess if super light is your ultimate goal then might as well, but I doubt you'll be able to feel that difference and risks are lower with brass - never any worries of threads stripping on nipple deforming. etc.

But at the same time, I've built plenty of DH wheels with alu now, and with a proper spoke wrench (hell, you don't even need a fancy one, just one that isn't worn out and fits snugly with no play) and some spoke prep, I haven't had any problems with the alu that I've used. I haven't tried reusing them, but I wouldn't reuse brass either, spoke nipples are what, 5 cents a pop? When I'm building a ~200+dollar wheelset of any sort, the last thing I'm going to do is try and cut cost by a $1.60 by reusing nipples, brass or alu. Like I said, with spoke prep and a snug spoke wrench, alu nipples will build a wheel just fine, and the rim will fail long before the spokes go out of tension or it gets untrue.

As I see it, the reasons to go with alu instead of brass is pretty colors. That is it.

The reason to go with brass instead of alu is because you happen to have them on hand, or just want silver and don't need shiny bits. That is it. They both work fine, or you're doing something wrong.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
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They both work fine, or you're doing something wrong.
Initially they do. But over time I have found them to cause more problems while re-truing, mainly when you put spoke freeze on them.
And if I go for super light spokes then I go all the way and go for alu nips as well. No reason to add weight in the most crucial part of the wheel. I rather have a heavier spoke and alu then super light spokes and brass.
 

Peddler

Chimp
Apr 13, 2006
72
0
Auburn, CA
We have been running them for 3 years and are still running hoops from the first sets with fresh hubs. We have not noticed more pinch flats I would say less then the aluminum rims we have run. Though like speeding tickets you hate to say you have not had one in awhile.. We use the aluminum nipples with spoke treatment.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I'm semi inclined to agree and disagree with norbar simultaneously.

You'll save like what, 20g with alu instead of brass? I guess if super light is your ultimate goal then might as well, but I doubt you'll be able to feel that difference and risks are lower with brass - never any worries of threads stripping on nipple deforming. etc.

But at the same time, I've built plenty of DH wheels with alu now, and with a proper spoke wrench (hell, you don't even need a fancy one, just one that isn't worn out and fits snugly with no play) and some spoke prep, I haven't had any problems with the alu that I've used. I haven't tried reusing them, but I wouldn't reuse brass either, spoke nipples are what, 5 cents a pop? When I'm building a ~200+dollar wheelset of any sort, the last thing I'm going to do is try and cut cost by a $1.60 by reusing nipples, brass or alu. Like I said, with spoke prep and a snug spoke wrench, alu nipples will build a wheel just fine, and the rim will fail long before the spokes go out of tension or it gets untrue.

As I see it, the reasons to go with alu instead of brass is pretty colors. That is it.

The reason to go with brass instead of alu is because you happen to have them on hand, or just want silver and don't need shiny bits. That is it. They both work fine, or you're doing something wrong.
I'm not saying it's alu or brass but I've seen nipples fail and it happens at after you retension your wheels a few times. Of course if you build it properly it will PROBABLY happen in a very very long time but there is always an off chance it will happen faster and 20g are not worth risking a 2k$+ wheelset on that. Especially since you can get much higher weight differences with spokes
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
Especially since you can get much higher weight differences with spokes
64x CX rays (2.0 thread): 272 g
64x Supespokes (1.8 thread): 231 g
64x DT 2.0 12 mm Al nips: 19 g
64x DT 2.0 12 mmbrass nips: 65 g

And your argument is? ;)
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
You said 1.8 for superspokes ;)

Also yes if you use CX rays over superspokes yes. Pillars are even lighter at 224g. Though I've heard the newer gen's of ti spokes work quite well.


btw. Pillars are 2.0 so if you are afraid of superspokes being 1.8 you can go with Pillar mega lite ss. I've just build a ztr/pillar/alu nips/pimplite front wheel at 799g.
Funny thing - Pillar claims their ti spokes are stronger if I read the charts right. That would put you with 166g for 64 spokes ;)
 
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wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
Having dealt w/ tubulars on the cross and road bike, this would be a nightmare on the MTB.

Oh what, your rear tire is worn after a few weeks of hard riding, or you get a pinch flat/rip a sidewall? No problem.

Spend 10-15 minutes getting the old tire off, spend another hour or so cleaning the old glue off, and then spend a 1/2 a day doing the whole glue up process. Oh yeah, still a good chance you will roll it off the rim at the low pressures run in DH.

Tubular for DH = Massive Fail!

Good job security for Pro mechanics though...
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Sapim claims superspokes are stronger than cx-rays. It would be strange if they were weaker ;) As for Pillar nope. Very few shops stock them. Mine are a "test" model. They held up under a few uk rippers.
Which UK rippers?
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
Spend 10-15 minutes getting the old tire off, spend another hour or so cleaning the old glue off, and then spend a 1/2 a day doing the whole glue up process. Oh yeah, still a good chance you will roll it off the rim at the low pressures run in DH.
have you ever used tufo tubular tape?
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
359
Roanoke, VA
have you ever used tufo tubular tape?
Not to be pendatic but in a dh application you'd be using glue.
I don't recommend tape for CX use let alone mtb. The psi is one of the things that helps the initial adhesion. It's fancy double-sided stickytape.

As far as the collective experience of my peer group with Enve mtb rims over the last 4+ years the worst anyone has been able to do so is crack some clearcoat, and that was a paint defect and 4 years after it was painted.
That's the XC rims for DJ, slalom and hardtail DH use too. Don't try that at home though.
High-quality carbon wheelsets are a game changer and totally worth the investment, it's no joke.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
You had me up untill the worth the investement part. If you have spare cash yeah but 2k$ on rims? That's 4weeks+ of bike trips.