[kidwoo]

Seems like fox is confident enough in these things to offer them in the big sizes, obviously aimed at dh bikes. I've got a dh bike that I'm leaving the coil on because it sees a lot of consecutive runs via chairlift. But I've got a hella hella freeride bike I'm trying to lighten up.

I know there were a lot of complaints with the early incarnations of the dhx air having little or no progression until the end of the stroke, even with the resi chamber at its smallest volume. This is for a demo 7 which is pretty linear through its stroke so that would need to have been changed.

I either climb this bike or do some shuttles with it which is plenty of time to cool off. Seems like an option.

Any problems with significant pressure increases from the heat on longer runs?

 

[jonKranked]

I got to cruise aroudn on bullcrew's Canfield Jedi with a roco wc air, and it felt AMAZING. If I wasn't looking, I'd swear it was a coil shock. Travis can give you a more detailed analysis.

 

[William42]

I just picked up an evolver, need to get ahold of the proper sized bushings to get it on my bike, but i'll write a review once i've had a month or two of ride time on it. So far i've seen the best reviews about it, but i think shock setup is more difficult with long travel air shocks, and alot of people who don't like the DHX A's just set them up poorly.

Udi wrote a pretty good explanation of the DHX A and how to play with a couple things like oil weight to give it more midstroke.

 

[kidwoo]

Udi wrote a pretty good explanation of the DHX A and how to play with a couple things like oil weight to give it more midstroke.

You remember where? It wasn't it's own thread that he started.

 

[1soulrider]

My Roco WC Air has been pretty amazing on the DHR.
The ony issue I have had is that the progressive nature of the DHR makes it hard to get full travel.

 

[Dogboy]

I have a fairly long stroke (8.5x2.5) Roco that has worked well so far. It's on a pretty low leverage bike and the air pressure in the main chamber is really low, so it feels really coil-like.

 

[mandown]

i'm thinking about one (roco air) for my Nicolai UFO ST. i know Bullcrew got one on his Jedi and Bullit21 has one on his bottlerocket. both seem happy, but haven't had them in for a long-term review.

 

[kidwoo]

My Roco WC Air has been pretty amazing on the DHR.
The ony issue I have had is that the progressive nature of the DHR makes it hard to get full travel.

Heh......I was going to call you actually.


Instead of asking you more questions, I think I'll do that right now




Dogboy: What bike is yours on?

 

[Nick]

"hella hella"?

 

[kidwoo]

"hella hella"?

"freeride bike" just sounds so stupid.

I figured I'd go full bore.

 

[bullcrew]

So far so good, Roco wc air doesnt have the lack of mid stroke like the fox as wellas feels closer to a coil than the Fox. Dont have longterm but I can say unless you look down you swear your riding a coil, I weigh 220lbs and rode the crap out of it with no fade.
If your doing bigger hits up the air in the main chamber a little bit, pending your weight.
FR and drops Ill go 180-200 lbs of pressure depending on size and terrain, racing and 6" and under I run 150-160 in main. It would bottom off a 6-7 to flat but tranny it held nice on. I hit a 6'+ step down last wed and it didnt bottom but then again the landing was mellow.

 

[Dogboy]

Dogboy: What bike is yours on?

It's on a Mongoose Khyber Super.

 

[dexter]

woo i ran a proto roco wc on my seven this summer for a while and it kicked ass. was way better than the dhx. do it

 

[kidwoo]

woo i ran a proto roco wc on my seven this summer for a while and it kicked ass. was way better than the dhx. do it

So it fits.......thanks man.

 

[cesar_rojo]

I've tested not much ago two bikes for a spanish mag with air shocks. GT and LaPierre.

My conclusion is that both feel way less sensible to small bumps,... You feel big difference in braking bumps... And also heat is a problem... Normall in coil shock the head mades the oil bit thinner and you get faster rebound and comp, but can't feel that on not very demanding courses, but here the heat also makes the pressure of the shock go way higher, so you can feel differences...

On the LaPierre bike was not that bad as that bike works amazingly good, but I've run on David Vazquez official one and there is no way to compare...

So my veredict is, on a bike with no link, don't think about it, the GT was feeling awfull, but on a bike with a proper suspension system it can work pretty good on not very demanding courses...

Personally, won't even think on having one on my DH bike.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

i have a roco WC air on my cove peeler. its feels incredible. so smooth , at first i thought it had a problem because it was soooo smooth.

also i only run about 210 psi in the main air and i weight in at 260 myself and that is in the 9" travel setting on the cove. that puts the shock at a 3:1 ratio. also the one that i have is the 9.5"X3.0"

 

[SylentK]

I had a DHX Air on my [hella hella] Nomad. After a couple runs at Keystone I lost all rebound control and overall it felt like poo. So yes, I would say there was significant issue caused by heat on longer runs, because this had never happened before and as it eventually cooled off, it went back to normal. But, as you know, Keystone is home to some really long trails when done from top to bottom (race times for pros are 8min) and they're not exactly smooth. Plus I'm kinda big weighing 190 w/gear.

I also thought the DHX-A blew through its travel on rather small obsticles (like a curb). This probably didn't help with the heat generation...

 

[William42]

heres the thread by Udi, so far the best DHX A thread i've seen.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195485

you might have to scan through a couple pages

 

[kidwoo]

heres the thread by Udi, so far the best DHX A thread i've seen.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195485

you might have to scan through a couple pages

Gotcha....all he's doing is occupying air volume with oil......same thing a lot of people do with air fork chambers. Thanks for the link.

 

[davep]

You can also experiment with different sized air cans ie: RP3 can on a DHX etc to change the air spring non-linearity.

IIRC the first Roco air had an adjustable air volume sleeve that somehow also adjusted the neg chamber. I don think they offer that anymore however.

 

[kidwoo]

You can also experiment with different sized air cans ie: RP3 can on a DHX etc to change the air spring non-linearity.

IIRC the first Roco air had an adjustable air volume sleeve that somehow also adjusted the neg chamber. I don think they offer that anymore however.

I like the oil trick.


It's cheaper

Of course my tune could change after the third removal/installation on my 'san quentin for shocks' demo design.

 

[boone]

I have had a 2007 dhx air 8.75 X 2.5 on my nicolai UFO ST for about a year. Haven't ridden it in a little bit but the shock worked great for that bike. Maybe not as well as a coil but...meh, I didn't ever feel I was missing anything. This frame has lots of different travel settings and I tried the shock in all of them.
The shock did get pretty warm on long runs but it did not seem to cause any adverse problems.
I was looking for something that I could have control of the bottom on and also be really smooth and soft through the begin and middle stroke. The dhx air worked nicely for this and in lower travel settings I could bring up the propedal a little if I needed to climb. I really felt like I could change this thing around a LOT. It is a little fussy and it really takes some time to get it right.
If I was to have a larger frame and do more climbing I might look into the evolver for better mid-stroke, but thats not really what I wanted this bike for.
Overall I liked it just fine. I never felt like I was missing anything except maybe on really really rough fast wash board crap...but then again I always feel like I am missing something there...probably within myself more than the shock

What size do you need Whoo?

 

[Sir_Crackien]

for all you doubters:

ok if air shocks are so fouled in design then why would we be running them on pretty much every xc bike out there with no problems. also in the past i had a transition preston with a rockshoks MC3 (and xc shock) and i did loggers alley on it with no adverse effects to the shock. btw loggers alley is about 7 miles if my memory serves me right and its pretty much one long rock garden. also i have ridden many air shocks on many different bikes with no problems. if anyone is going to break it its going to be me.

also like i said before the roco wc air is unbelievable smooth. the only part that is different at all about its stroke is right at the beginning when you first sit on the bike. it is a little firmer there, once you are past them you can't tell the difference

 

[vitox]

I've tested not much ago two bikes for a spanish mag with air shocks. GT and LaPierre.

My conclusion is that both feel way less sensible to small bumps,... You feel big difference in braking bumps... And also heat is a problem... Normall in coil shock the head mades the oil bit thinner and you get faster rebound and comp, but can't feel that on not very demanding courses, but here the heat also makes the pressure of the shock go way higher, so you can feel differences...

On the LaPierre bike was not that bad as that bike works amazingly good, but I've run on David Vazquez official one and there is no way to compare...

So my veredict is, on a bike with no link, don't think about it, the GT was feeling awfull, but on a bike with a proper suspension system it can work pretty good on not very demanding courses...

Personally, won't even think on having one on my DH bike.

buenas, estoy hablando con el cesar rojo original?

 

[MrPlow]

for all you doubters:

ok if air shocks are so fouled in design then why would we be running them on pretty much every xc bike out there with no problems. CAUSE XC DOEN"T WORK THE SHOCK AND CREATE AS MUCH HEAT also in the past i had a transition preston with a rockshoks MC3 (and xc shock) and i did loggers alley on it with no adverse effects to the shock. btw loggers alley is about 7 miles if my memory serves me right and its pretty much one long rock garden. also i have ridden many air shocks on many different bikes with no problems. if anyone is going to break it its going to be me.

also like i said before the roco wc air is unbelievable smooth. the only part that is different at all about its stroke is right at the beginning when you first sit on the bike. it is a little firmer there, once you are past them you can't tell the difference

From what I have heard the main problem is heat build up causing the air pressure to increase.
To make a point similar to your point, if air shocks are that great why aren't the pros running them?

 

[BikeMike]

What is the typical volume of the uncompressed air spring?

How much do the shocks heat up? Hot to the touch or just slightly warm? Seems like the shock itself might act as a bit of a heatsink with air flowing over it. If anyone has estimates on the volume of air in the shock, it'd be pretty easy to calculate the increase in pressure for a given increase in temp (w/ ideal gas).

 

[bullcrew]

I know the new roco wc air shocks have bigger air volume now to help fight that. Same as the curnutt air, bigger volume for less fade.

Why did I get hammered 3+ years ago for running tubeless, I remember peeps saying why arent the pros and that doesnt work. Hell look at it now, progression happens and things get better through technology, air will eventually make the mainstream circut it has in forks and everyone knocked them!

 

[Nagaredama]

If an air shock gets warm on a dh run won't it cool off on the shuttle or chairlift ride back up the hill?

 

[bullcrew]

If an air shock gets warm on a dh run won't it cool off on the shuttle or chairlift ride back up the hill?

Yes and with the bigger chambers they can do a more aggresive ride now as well before any stuff happens.
Id ride tunnel and will with the roco WC air this season, if that doesnt qualify as a beating then Im stumped.
I rode hard and the trail was atleast 4 miles with bumps, rocks roots and alot of hammering and it didnt fade, or atleast I couldnt tell. It was still butter smooth at the end and not warm enough to cause any build up issues.
1- Yes aluminum body acts as a radiator for cooling
2- Bigger air chambers allow for more linear feel and less heat build up and pressure
3- designs have greatly improved over last years roco, which is leaps and bounds over the DHX air.

I took so much crap from peeps on this forum about tubeless to begin with and now its a viable set up, I didnt give a rats rear what they thought I did it and still do!
Everyone has an opinion about stuff, unfortunently rarely is it product error more user error (in most cases) occasionaly a product will be released and a flaw will happen hence progression and warranty. Then its fixed and we move on, everyone rides different, they weigh in different, different leverage ratios and riding styles....

Air is a viable option that will eventually make it mainstream especially with the new roco wc air reacting as good as it does and the new curnutt will be a contender aside of its initial platform and pssss noise it makes it rides really well.

 

[1soulrider]

The Roco WC Air behaves nothing like a DHX Air.
I have never had any love for the DHX Air on dh/fr bikes, it has a host of performance issues.
The Roco behaves like a coil, with the exception of being slightly more progressive.
I have never ridden an air sock that is so supple smooth and controlled feeling.

 

[jonKranked]

Yes and with the bigger chambers they can do a more aggresive ride now as well before any stuff happens.
Id ride tunnel and will with the roco WC air this season, if that doesnt qualify as a beating then Im stumped.
I rode hard and the trail was atleast 4 miles with bumps, rocks roots and alot of hammering and it didnt fade, or atleast I couldnt tell. It was still butter smooth at the end and not warm enough to cause any build up issues.
1- Yes aluminum body acts as a radiator for cooling
2- Bigger air chambers allow for more linear feel and less heat build up and pressure
3- designs have greatly improved over last years roco, which is leaps and bounds over the DHX air.

I took so much crap from peeps on this forum about tubeless to begin with and now its a viable set up, I didnt give a rats rear what they thought I did it and still do!
Everyone has an opinion about stuff, unfortunently rarely is it product error more user error (in most cases) occasionaly a product will be released and a flaw will happen hence progression and warranty. Then its fixed and we move on, everyone rides different, they weigh in different, different leverage ratios and riding styles....

Air is a viable option that will eventually make it mainstream especially with the new roco wc air reacting as good as it does and the new curnutt will be a contender aside of its initial platform and pssss noise it makes it rides really well.

Travis you are what marketing analysts refer to as an "early adopter" Now get off your tubeless horse

 

[Sir_Crackien]

you might say that a xc shock doesn't get worked as much as a dh shock. do you have the data to back that up??? remember that the shocks on xc bike are much shorter. deal with much longer runs (xc rides last well over an hour) and that leverage ratio often times is that same if not higher. granted the bumps/hits are not as big but the bike goes through its travel spectrum probably as often if not more (i only have experience to back up that statement).

unlike bullcrew i still don't ride tubeless. i'm not a band wagon person. most of the products i have owned in the past and present are either odd or you see them everywhere because that are truthfully good

 

[ultraNoob]

I have a Manitou Evolver ISX-6 on my DH frankenbike keeps it under 40lbs. It's a 9.0x2.75. Works great but I can bottom it out more often than my revox. It made it through N* and a full race season and is still as plush as the first day.

 

[norbar]

It may change your susp curve as airs work very differantly to coils. Ie. On lapierre according to the company and mojo you shouldn't run coils because of the frame was designed around an air shock. I think in frame designed for coils an air shock may not feel the best.

I wasn't exactly happy with mine even on an air specific frame but that was due to the fact that air got into the oil chamber (which apparently happened to someone else with the same frame and shock on RM). Easy fix yet quite annoying.
Maybe a good soluton would be doing what I did - sending it to mojo for a custom tune. It may be possible that they can tune it for your frame. Mine now feels awesome and is very hard to bottom. Never had anyoverheating problems as some suggest but I've been riding on it for a very short time and still no longer trails.


BTW. My father runs an evolver in a banshee scream. They are harder to bottom

 

[earide]

Hi everyone
anybody knows if the roco air is compatible with the link on a 2014 demo 8 bike?