[Sandwich]

How sensitive are you to saddle position as an effect of seat angle?

I'm looking at a couple of frames and they seem to have crazy slack seat angles, which I hate. Is this something other people just get over?

 

[HAB]

I mean, you've got a fair bit of fore/aft adjustment in the seat to tweak that. I am picky about seat position, but it's not that hard to get a range of angles to fit with seatpost selection and seat adjustment.

73 degrees is about right for me to get a nicely centered seat rail position. What do you mean by "crazy slack"?

 

[djjohnr]

I can usually make it work on any trail/am bike, although I prefer fairly steep. One of my pet peeves is the seat angles on DH bikes; the thing that makes them suck to climb more then anything else is the slack seat angles. I don't get why they do that - you don't sit on the damn thing anyways, with a 150mm dropper you can get the seat plenty low enough and it's still easy to grab with your knees.

 

[4130biker]

I can usually make it work on any trail/am bike, although I prefer fairly steep. One of my pet peeves is the seat angles on DH bikes; the thing that makes them suck to climb more then anything else is the slack seat angles. I don't get why they do that .

It used to drive me nuts as well, but then I figured out that a lot of the designs (lower main pivots) with long travel, short rear end necessitate it to some extent for tire/saddle clearance.

 

[djjohnr]

Great, maybe they can use some of that extra space the fucking boost hub gets them

 

[4130biker]

How sensitive are you to saddle position as an effect of seat angle?

I'm looking at a couple of frames and they seem to have crazy slack seat angles, which I hate. Is this something other people just get over?

I think slack seat angles suck on AM bikes, and make the bikes look stupid when set up properly (or climb bad if that's not possible). I guess looks are secondary to:
a.) if it can indeed be set up properly for you
b.) if all the other cool shit about the bike negates a whacked out seat angle

PS- what are the frames in question and are you talking actual or effective seat angle?

 

[jstuhlman]

for you, good sir, i'd recommend one of these:

the nut-muncher

the bed-o-nailz

the rusty trombone

the sharknado

or the ass-grater3000

 

[Sandwich]

PS- what are the frames in question and are you talking actual or effective seat angle?

I really like that sharknado saddle- it gives me another reason to strap on my fanny pack and go ride my super-ghey 29er.

 

[4130biker]

Get teh Evil!

 

[4130biker]

I think this was already mentioned, but going with a zero offset head post should give you roughly effectively a degree of steepness vs an offset. I usually think of 73-75 within the "normal" range these days. Any chance to test ride it and see?

 

[StiHacka]

Get teh Evil!

 

[cecil]

I really like that sharknado saddle- it gives me another reason to strap on my fanny pack and go ride my super-ghey 29er.

I think you mean transgender 29er

 

[rollertoaster]

I'm very sensitive to saddle angle. I don't use a chamois, I hate feeling like I'm wearing a diaper. The slack seat tube angles are a bummer especially at 6'2" but I haven't been able to not get it adjusted to my needs yet. Even my mutz with the 70 degree St I can still get it comfortable.
I also run the wtb volt saddles exclusively, and love them

 

[Kanye West]

Said it for years, slack seat angles suck unless you like straining your lower back by pedaling while folding yourself in half, or unless you like descending with the seat behind your ass instead of being behind the seat. This stupid design characteristic needs to die. Of all the retarded things to evolve out of the ever changing world of bike designs, I'm shocked that's still around.

 

[marshalolson]

On a full suspension bike, my happy place is at least a 74deg ST, and the saddle at least 3/4 the way forward on its rails.

Really helps me pedal efficiently. Not anywhere near as sensitive to saddle positioning on the hard tail for some reason.

 

[Udi]

I'm with Hacktastic and Sandwich on this one, slack seat angles are so stupid, and in fact even the "steeper" seat-angled AM bikes are still too slack in my experience. No one does it right from what I've ridden so far, but some are certainly worse than others.

One of the key issues is that the "ST angle" that almost every manufacturer provides is a virtual measurement, not the actual angle of the seat tube itself. To me that is the most retarded thing ever and it misleads most people entirely (including those in this thread who are quoting ST angle values - compare those measurements to the actual angle of the tube and see). Look at a Mondraker geometry chart if you want to see the angle of the seat tube itself (like a head tube angle) and how it compares to the regular seat tube measurement, as they provide both.

Obviously the actual angle is the most important thing, because the leverage once extended acts as a multiplier based on the angle of the tube itself, the starting position of the seat tube opening (within reason) doesn't actually matter a whole lot, and that's all most geometry charts really indicate.

It's yet another component of mtb geometry charts that needs to be corrected so it's actually useful. I think the primary measurement provided should be the physical angle of that tube, perhaps complemented by another number which indicates the offset of the opening from the vertical BB centerline.

 

[Gary]

Noooooo..... !!!

I'm with you on virtual measurements being retarded ALL OF THEM though.

But if the industry comes up with any new ways to list geometry numbers they'll only fuck it up like they did adding yet MOAR fucking virtual measurements like they did with reach and stack when all we really needed was all manufacturers to list actual downtube measurements.

Luckily most bike shops still have telephones and measuring tapes

 

[jonKranked]

VPP - Virtual Prostate Pinchpoint

 

[Lelandjt]

On my enduro bike I regularly move my seat up and down 7 1/2 inches, 6 with the Reverb and 1 1/2 with a quick release. I think what I'd like is a 80-90° seat angle so it doesn't move forward when I lower it. Since that doesn't exist yet I am much happier with my Nomad's angle than the 1st gen Scott Genius LT I was on.

 

[Gary]

Well why not? #Enduro is the new time trialing after all

 

[imp]

does anybody ever use offset seatposts flipped around backwards? I'm having a similar... eh I wouldn't call it a problem but the frame I'm on now has the seat a little further back than I'm used to, though reach is perfect...

 

[HAB]

does anybody ever use offset seatposts flipped around backwards? I'm having a similar... eh I wouldn't call it a problem but the frame I'm on now has the seat a little further back than I'm used to, though reach is perfect...

You'll probably have a hard time getting the seat level. The adjustment range is such that it'll end up nose up.

 

[StiHacka]

If you are a sensitive man, don't look there -> !! https://instagram.com/p/5DdGwIS0Nx/

 

[Lelandjt]

does anybody ever use offset seatposts flipped around backwards? I'm having a similar... eh I wouldn't call it a problem but the frame I'm on now has the seat a little further back than I'm used to, though reach is perfect...

When I was using my V10 for trail rides I got a Specialized Command Post Blacklite cuz it could be run offset forward. It made that bike have a reasonable seated climbing position.

 

[Sandwich]

whoa really? like just reverse the post then adjust the angle?

 

[4130biker]

whoa really? like just reverse the post then adjust the angle?

That's probably one of few benefits of that shitty round clamping head on the older command post: lots of adjustability.
I don't think the IR version would have that benefit with the new head

 

[Lelandjt]

^Correct. That post, a 34t chainring, and a toe strap to lower the fork on climbs and that V10 did some big trail rides. It was fun to get it "out there" but now my Nomad is just as fun on downhills and even better on climbs and flats.

 

[xy9ine]

when all we really needed was all manufacturers to list actual downtube measurements.

yes! been saying this for ever as well; a proper front center measurement that can be easily compared with a tape in hand.

and yes, slack sta's are dumb.

 

[xy9ine]

When I was using my V10 for trail rides I got a Specialized Command Post Blacklite cuz it could be run offset forward. It made that bike have a reasonable seated climbing position.

like this:

 

[Bikael Molton]

eww wtf

 

[tomasis7]

looks like a bad enduro bike

 

[blindboxx2334]

if you havent read the team brobot post on that bike, read it.

 

[Lelandjt]

looks like a bad enduro bike

The baddest enduro bike. I raced it to 9th in pro in two different NAET rounds. Here it is in offseason (or enduro) trim.

 

[Muddy]

if you havent read the team brobot post on that bike, read it.

"If you ever see a downhill bike with 8" rise ape hangers and a saddle bag, buy that thing immediately."

Now, they're gone.

 

[tomasis7]

The baddest enduro bike. I raced it to 9th in pro in two different NAET rounds. Here it is in offseason (or enduro) trim.

cool, but wait.. i checked the v10 geometry it says 57-58 degree Seat angle? it is not slack?

Imagine a bike with my high inseam, I would need minus 50mm stem

 

[StiHacka]

The baddest enduro bike. I raced it to 9th in pro in two different NAET rounds. Here it is in offseason (or enduro) trim.

Wiide rims, carbon rotors, wowzy! What is the effective SA when dropper fully extended?

 

[Sandwich]

the seat angle looks better than the evil.

 

[jonKranked]

i suspect we're seeing more and more crazy slack seat angles as a result of needing the space in the lower portion of the front triangle for suspension links, etc. the space there seems necessary to keep the bike compact, ie to keep the chainstay and overall wheelbase lengths reasonable.

 

[Sandwich]

I guess I understand on tight frame designs like the salsa, but with the advent of dropper seatpost and carbon structures, I guess I don't see the need for wacked out angles. Take the evil for example, there's no reason you couldn't run a steeper post. In fact, it would be better for seattube-tire clearance. Then just run a widely available layback post if you need more leg extension.

 

[Lelandjt]

Wiide rims, carbon rotors, wowzy! What is the effective SA when dropper fully extended?

I don't know the number but the forward offset head definitely helped it. Stil it felt pretty rearward compared to any of my trail bikes. Like any of the slack seat angled bikes we're discussing saddle rail position was a compromise between keeping it reasonably in front of the rear axle when raised, but not so far forward when lowered that you couldn't sit on it. The post wasn't long enough for full roadbike leg extention so it didn't get too far back there. This is really my DH bike and usually has a short Thompson post and 38t ring. I got a 34t ring and used Command Post one fall after the lifts closed so I could keep riding the bike another month. It worked well enough that the next spring I used it in the two most rugged enduros (Keystone & Angelfire) on my schedule cuz my Scott Genius LT and its DT shock were getting the hell beaten out of them at those venues. With my Nomad and its lovely seat tube and head tube angles (and Vivid Air) I don't feel the urge to trail ride the V10 so my girlfriend is using that post.

Oh, and those rims are only 27mm internal. I was sponsored by the carbon rotor company but now that I'm out of their pads I'm back on Formula rotors.