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22 inches of Love - it feels just right

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
new front wheel build on the way, stoked. ECLAT hub, Velocity rim, Meghna 22" X 2.2" tire, Kenda 22"tube.

(pm me if interested in velocity rims, i have some more . . . )
 
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Gibby403

Chimp
Aug 27, 2011
39
0
Are those 36 or 48 spoke hubs? And where do u get your spokes from? So you think Liquid will make a 22" frame and fork?
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
Are those 36 or 48 spoke hubs? And where do u get your spokes from? So you think Liquid will make a 22" frame and fork?
the Velocity rims I have are 36hole. the stock wheels on the Zeitgeist were 48h, and the new rims that Faction has are 36h, but not quite available yet--although they do look rad. you can ask your local bike shop to call their distributors to get the spokes (and even if they're not available right off the shelf, spokes can be cut to whatever length you need). or... if you want custom built wheels, lemme know, because i have a connection for that. and PM me if you are serious about getting a 22 frame.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
I'm serious about 22's but I can not afford a custom frame/fork so I'm waiting.... Even buying not custom, it's going to cost nearly a grand, I'm guessing.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
CMC - Would you mind putting that 22 inch wheel in your Liquid? The back end MUST be shorter than that DK....
 
true, but the dropout/brake boss relationship is the same. plus our dropouts are much shorter in length than the DK, so you won't be able to grind out nearly enough metal to move the wheel as far forward...

sorry, we didn't mean to make such a dialed 24" frame around 24" wheels...




oh wait, yes we did...
 
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cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
I debated putting this out there before I got my ducks in a row, but, like Cru and Liquid, I'd like to hear yall's 'feedback'. also clearly need to download a CAD program.



First, 21.75"tt because it's right in between the two most popular sizes for 20" and 24" wheels trails frames (i.e. 21.5"tt on 20" wheels and 22"tt on 24" wheels). Then, 74 head angle (but possibly 74.25) because it'll be primarily a trails/big transition frame. So many classic bikes had this angle, I think it's worth sticking with (even though current trendy frames have twitchy 75 and 75.5 angles). On chainstay, it'll probably be 13.75" to 14.25" adjustment, with 14" right in the middle of the dropout. For bottom bracket, I wrote 12" in the drawing, but I'll probably do 12.25". Something high like 12.75" is clearly an option (1.75" above axle level), but from my experience with Liquid, that mid-level height just feels amazing. Even back in the 90's/early 00's, Hoffman was using 11 3/8" and 11.5" bb and they obviously worked really well for going big. Lastly, the seat tube height, I might drop a little bit down to 9". Most 20" frames range from 7.75" to 8.75" seat tube length, whereas 24" frames like the Model C have 9.75", so this will be a good medium length. .... And the name STACK Bikes, just one on a list of possibilities right now....
 
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bean22

Chimp
Jan 3, 2012
12
0
uk
been reading this thread with great interest as the 22" wheel concept is somthing i really like the idea of. im 6'5 tall so the prospect of being able to build a BIG bmx is awsome. currently i ride a custom standard trail boss with a 22" top tube,14.25 rear and some 9" rise bars and it rides awsome and gives enough room for my stupidly massive legs! but i cant help but think of what the 22" wheels would be like. i still suffer with my back every now and then so have considered 24s, but they aint a bmx! 22's on the other hand!?

22" wheels, 22.25 / 22.5 top tube with a 14.25 / 14.5 rear would be an absolute treat in my opinion.
CMC, i think your right with the bb height at 12.25ish, but not so keen on the lower stand over idea, deffinatly stay at least 9.5 imo, nice and stable. =)

anyways, stoked to see more people pushing this forward, it needs to happen!

ben.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
YES!

Those are pretty much the numbers I had in mind for a frame. My only thought is, lower BB.

This is something that I've talked about with other people that ride BIG trails and the general consensus is 'just because the tires are bigger, doesn't mean the BB has to be taller'. Some of them are saying to keep the BB at 11.5 and that with the shorter back end it will eliminate the 'land magnet' feel that is often talked about.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
CMC - Would you mind putting that 22 inch wheel in your Liquid? The back end MUST be shorter than that DK....
true, but the dropout/brake boss relationship is the same. plus our dropouts are much shorter in length than the DK, so you won't be able to grind out nearly enough metal to move the wheel as far forward...

sorry, we didn't mean to make such a dialed 24" frame around 24" wheels...




oh wait, yes we did...
well, just for the sake of getting a visual, here's my Liquid with 22"s on it. (although the front axle is not really bolted in right because it's 14mm and 3/8" slots). basically although it would be rideable, brakeless, it looks terrible--especially the front end. we just gotta focus on 22"-specific frames.... the only interesting thing is that the seat tube height (9.25"ish from center of bb to center of top tube) does look pretty good with 22" wheels.





to wipe the above mis-match-grossness from your mind, look again at this STANDARD 22". so rad.:
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
What's the top tube length on that Standard? Thing looks DIALED.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
CMC- you're saying 21.75 for your 22 and that the Liquid looks bad (sitting on 22's) but the top tube difference is only .5 of an inch. The only thing that looks really odd to me in that picture with your Liquid is that the bars look HUGE.

Asides from what the BB height would be with 22's, the rest of the angles/sizes pretty much are the same.
74, 71, 14, 9.5

(just kinda thinking outloud.....)
 

bean22

Chimp
Jan 3, 2012
12
0
uk
What's the top tube length on that Standard? Thing looks DIALED.
i asked that when the pics went up on the standard facebook, from memory it was only 21". the bike does look very nice but i just cant get my head around big wheels and small top tubes.

ive seen nothing but praise for the liquid frames and these are a good 1/2" longer than most. props to them!
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
CMC- you're saying 21.75 for your 22 and that the Liquid looks bad (sitting on 22's) but the top tube difference is only .5 of an inch. The only thing that looks really odd to me in that picture with your Liquid is that the bars look HUGE.

Asides from what the BB height would be with 22's, the rest of the angles/sizes pretty much are the same.
74, 71, 14, 9.5

(just kinda thinking outloud.....)
to clarify, i didn't mean the top tube. i meant that the fork gap, 22" wheel in a 24" fork, looks bad. also, on the rear end, the way that the Liquid's chainstays are very carefully shaped around the 24" wheel looks odd when it has the wrong size wheel. like a kid in his dad's suit. i guess it's not that different than mtb riders putting 24"s in a 26" frame. your eye gets used to it after a while. but even there, most agree that 24"-specific mtb's like the Fall Guy, Molly, Contraband, etc. look better designed...

i don't think there would be anything wrong with a 22" top tube frame with 22" wheels. it would just look like a Macneil Deuce Deuce except with the wheels being more proportional to a stretched out frame.

i asked that when the pics went up on the standard facebook, from memory it was only 21". the bike does look very nice but i just cant get my head around big wheels and small top tubes.

ive seen nothing but praise for the liquid frames and these are a good 1/2" longer than most. props to them!
i think 21" top tube would work fine too with 22"s. hell you could have 23"tt, it doesn't matter. when you think about it, you can have 20" wheels with anything from an 18.25"tt flatland frame up to a 22"tt Deuce Deuce.
 
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cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
right about now . . . this thread needs a video


Chris Mahoney on Amero 22" wheel trails bike at Rampworx skatepark
 

2whlrdr

Chimp
Jun 17, 2011
7
0
Marion ia
The Standard 22 above has a 21 tt.Found the Meghna tires couple months back and have held up well,but sure would be nice to have some better options for rims and tires.
 
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bean22

Chimp
Jan 3, 2012
12
0
uk
i think 21" top tube would work fine too with 22"s. hell you could have 23"tt, it doesn't matter. when you think about it, you can have 20" wheels with anything from an 18.25"tt flatland frame up to a 22"tt Deuce Deuce.[/QUOTE]

i totaly agree with what you say, but with tt that small running 22's it must be a bit cramped and tight if you wanted to x up and bar spin?? im just coming in from the tall guys perspective, bigger the better!
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
i totaly agree with what you say, but with tt that small running 22's it must be a bit cramped and tight if you wanted to x up and bar spin?? im just coming in from the tall guys perspective, bigger the better!
it would be, but not any more cramped than a 20"tt frame with 20" wheels. keep in mind the wheel is only 1" bigger in each direction. assuming your fork dropout has the same off-set, then an x-up or full-barspin with 22"s is only an inch closer to your foot/pedal.

i agree, though, 22tt X 22w would be a rad option.
i thought about slapping one with this logo, after RanchRoad 2222 in Austin, which is a twisty hilly road that motorcycles and cars like to race on.

 
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cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
The Standard 22 above has a 21 tt.Found the Meghna tires couple months back and have held up well,but sure would be nice to have some better options for rims and tires.



that's yours, right? can you tell us more about it? bb height, cs length? head angle?
 
Jan 4, 2012
13
0
I just got off the phone with Jessie from Standard and they have 22" specs saved in their database for anyone wondering about a custom 22". Price-range for a custom frame, only, was $475. No bells or whistles.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
i've been asked a few times for more pics of the 22" Velocity rims i have. here they are. they've been selling, but i still have some left. you can see they're double-wall, but it appears to be a pinned not welded seam.







. . . and some more random comparison shots ....other day i pulled my '95 Homeless Mack out of the closet. weird how the geo compares with mid-school. i definitely shoulda been riding 22"s in the 90's.





 
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Gibby403

Chimp
Aug 27, 2011
39
0
need more U.S mfg to grow some stones and make a 22" frame, fork & rim package.
Hoffman should step-up yet again and get it done. Peace.
 

bean22

Chimp
Jan 3, 2012
12
0
uk
to be honest im starting to loose faith in faction ever geting this stuff off the ground as well. would be nice to think one of the big companies would step in and sort rims and rubber but cant see it happening. the frame option is never going to be a problem with all the custom options available now, but i cant justify commiting all that money on a nice new frame and fork without having anything for it to roll on. custom standard frame and fork qoute with shipping to the uk came to nearly $1000. too much to gamble with the wheel issues.

on another note, the liquid frame comes up a lot on here. are these guys still making frames as i cant get a response from them. tried via facebook and the website just get no response :(
 

FullTwisting

Chimp
Dec 8, 2010
23
0
NC
and no info on the Amero? that thing is years past due....
They posted a comment on Facebook yesterday stating:

Faction via Facebook said:
The tires will be fatter with a higher psi, new tread pattern and lighter kevlar bead. The rims will be in chrome finish, the frame will have a slightly lower bb and a tad longer rear end. Mid bb and several other minor changes.
Sounds like they have been making a few changes, and a bit of progress.

Don't loose faith! Building a frame/fork for 22 is one thing, but getting the rims and tires made must be a pain in the butt. I still give 'em a big ole :thumb:
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
to be honest im starting to loose faith in faction ever geting this stuff off the ground as well. . . .
man, you're in the UK. just get on a train and go kick keith's ass. hah hah. surely they've got some of their sample rims/tires to sell to a local !?

do you have any connections with the Deluxe BMX guys? if anyone might be interested in 22w, it's them. i don't know if their frames are UK-made or Taiwan-made, but they sure are sweet.

as for tires, i know i posted these before, but seriously, buy a good stash of them before they no longer exist. they're not the highest quality, but they're decent. my buddy vernon's been riding one for a year. :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-22-x-2-20-Wide-Street-Freestyle-Bike-Bicycle-Tyre-RRP-12-/160699110257?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D150671186634%252B150671186634%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6049054843283361349
 

Gibby403

Chimp
Aug 27, 2011
39
0
Man I think I want a 22". Come on boys find some venture capitalist to get this going into production.
 

2whlrdr

Chimp
Jun 17, 2011
7
0
Marion ia
Some Odyssey Aitkens in 22s would be supreme:)The tire and rim situation is the turnoff for anybody wanting to get in the 22 game
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
There's a rumour going around that S&M are doing some stuff with 22's. I suggest emailing/harrasing them about it.... :)
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
BOOOM!!!







S&M prototype. They had the rims made custom. They have tires Fit and Revenge tires coming soon. sh1t just got real!

I threw slam bars and a redneck stem on it. Thing is SICK!

21.5
14.5
74.5
12.125
 
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bean22

Chimp
Jan 3, 2012
12
0
uk
holly cr4p! s&m getting involved, is that for real??!! that thing looks sweet, and damn good tyres as well.

the answer to our problems????