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2012 Eastern States Cup Schedule

Eastern States Cup

Turbo Monkey
Feb 29, 2008
2,465
2
East Coast
ESC #1 May 20 Mountain Creek, NJ Pro GRT Double Points NJ State Championship FINAL
ESC #2 May 27 Plattekill, NY Pro GRT Double Points
ESC #3 June 3 Attitash, NH
ESC #4 June 10 Pat’s Peak, NH Bike Festival
ESC #5 June 24 Mount Snow, VT
ESC #6 July 15 Windham, NY World Cup Course
ESC #7 July 29 Killington, VT
ESC #8 Aug 5 Mount Snow, VT
ESC #9 Aug 12 Plattekill, NY Steve Porraro Memorial
ESC #10 Aug 19 Killington, VT VT State Championship FINAL
ESC #11 Sept 2 Plattekill, NY NY State Championship FINAL
ESC #12 Sept 16 Attitash, NH NH State Championship FINAL
ESC #13 Sept 23 Jiminy Peak, MA MA State Championship FINAL
ESC Final Oct 7 Plattekill, NY Finals Double Points
 
Jun 28, 2009
39
0
The only reason I'm coming home from New Zealand is to race the ESC! Stoked to see NJ on the list there too, gonna be an awesome season.
 

MM_Freak

Chimp
Oct 28, 2008
96
0
Western Mass.
Really pumped to see a DH race here in MA. I've got a ruptured Achilles that needs to be operated on soon but I'm praying that I'll be able to rehab in time for that race. They tell me about 6 months before it'll be 100% so as long as there are no set backs I'll be there.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Ah, I was hoping for another Jiminy race just to spread the wealth, but it's great to see them on the schedule. Why no whiteface though? What are the rules going to be...ie how many races do you have to compete in? Seems like a packed schedule, so having fewer required races might make for a cheaper year.
 

PArider29

Monkey
Jan 20, 2010
131
0
back to NC
Is possible to have a series with too many races? Just stirring the proverbial pot here :D
Is it possible to please everyone...? NO

Will People complain No Matter what...? Yes

Does ESC and GES do the best they can to put together good venues in their respective series ...? Yes I believe they do.

I for one am happy to have the option to race....almost every weekend if I so choose.

We are lucky to have so much racing here in the east.

Thank you GES and ESC and PROGRT
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Gonna do anything about sandbaggers this year? I'm tired of the winner in cat 2 beating everybody in cat 1, or finishing in the top 3. I quit racing last year as I got tired of it, won't race this year until I see it's been sorted. I'd rather freeride than waste money racing people out of my league.
 

downhill mike

Turbo Monkey
Mar 23, 2005
1,286
4
We have been adding an Open DH category to try to avoid sand bagging at our races. The only drawback to that is, during a State Championship or Pro GRT event, the Open Downhill Category is not worth any USAC points. Maybe we should make sandbaggers race in the Open category?
 

PArider29

Monkey
Jan 20, 2010
131
0
back to NC
Gonna do anything about sandbaggers this year? I'm tired of the winner in cat 2 beating everybody in cat 1, or finishing in the top 3. I quit racing last year as I got tired of it, won't race this year until I see it's been sorted. I'd rather freeride than waste money racing people out of my league.
.


Sandbagging will and does occur at all races and all race series sometimes it is a innocent mistake by a new racer other times it is true sandbagging.

How exactly would you propose to sort this out? The MTBR Sea Otter forum has a lengthy thread on this issue but no real solution....I would propose that 2011 CAT 2 and 3 series winners must race up one Category for the 2012 Season.

my 2 cents
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
sandbagging, an issue as old as time.

don't you know that some people derive their self-worth from standing on a wooden box and wearing a medalion made from pot metal?

rule should be, 3 top 3s then mandatory upgrade.
that IS the rule. it's the enforcement from USAC that's lacking.

You can also move up with 5 top 5's I believe.
 
i know a few dudes that podiumed every race in cat3, to which i replied, you should move up. and then the rebuttal, i want to win the series. to which i reply, how many tires do you seriously need?

their FB status updates do get alot of 'likes' tho.

but maybe i'm just an envious cat 2 middling racer.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
i know a few dudes that podiumed every race in cat3, to which i replied, you should move up. and then the rebuttal, i want to win the series. to which i reply, how many tires do you seriously need?

their FB status updates do get alot of 'likes' tho.

but maybe i'm just an envious cat 2 middling racer.
next time they're on the podium, hand them a bag of sand.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Either of those sound fair. I think one 1st place in the cat 1 category is fair too. Last year at attitash the cat 2 guy beat all of cat 1 by almost 2 seconds. Every other race the cat 2 guys finished 2nd or 3rd in cat 1, same age group.

edit: I'm going to shut up now, as the guy at attitash moved up after that race. It just sucks to enter a race and have the top three guys in the category finishing in the top 5 or 10 of cat 1. If i wanted to race against cat 1 level guys, I'd race cat 1....but I don't want to drop down and race cat 3 guys either.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
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Either of those sound fair. I think one 1st place in the cat 1 category is fair too. Last year at attitash the cat 2 guy beat all of cat 1 by almost 2 seconds. Every other race the cat 2 guys finished 2nd or 3rd in cat 1, same age group.

edit: I'm going to shut up now, as the guy at attitash moved up after that race. It just sucks to enter a race and have the top three guys in the category finishing in the top 5 or 10 of cat 1. If i wanted to race against cat 1 level guys, I'd race cat 1....but I don't want to drop down and race cat 3 guys either.
a single race by only 2 seconds could just be a fluke. it could've been raining and everyone else crashed. if he won by say, like 5-10 seconds in good conditions different story. but that's the reason for requiring >1 top finish.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
it also seems people who have been placing well in the past few years in cat1 19-29 have not moved up and continue to sandbag the category.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
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it also seems people who have been placing well in the past few years in cat1 19-29 have not moved up and continue to sandbag the category.
cat 1 is a little different... the only group above that is pro, and per the rules there's no requirements mandating moving up to pro.
 

PArider29

Monkey
Jan 20, 2010
131
0
back to NC
The Best way to Solve Sandbagging in Cat 2 is for USAC to Allow the Purchase of ONE DAY Cat 1 licenses if the racer can prove he raced CAT in prior Season.

Some Cat 1 guys dont renew their license ..then show up to race and instead of buying a CAT 1 annual license they just race on a one day Cat 2 license.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
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The Best way to Solve Sandbagging in Cat 2 is for USAC to Allow the Purchase of ONE DAY Cat 1 licenses if the racer can prove he raced CAT in prior Season.

Some Cat 1 guys dont renew their license ..then show up to race and instead of buying a CAT 1 annual license they just race on a one day Cat 2 license.
This is a brilliant idea, so of course USAC will never adopt it.
 

intensified

Monkey
Mar 31, 2004
519
6
Canton,Ma
Plus the guys who were doing well in Cat 1 19-29 , don't always transition well to Pro

Agreed, that is a big jump from cat 1 to pro,,, after that age group 19-29 its even more rare to upgrade to pro... The riders behind the fast group cat 1 need to just step on it and do there best. Compare how the fast cat 1 times would rank in the pro class and they wouldnt make it to the pro class podium. (If they were a case could be made to move up, nobody wants to be yelled at as a "sandbagger" when they collect the free shwag and tires).
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
Agreed, that is a big jump from cat 1 to pro,,, after that age group 19-29 its even more rare to upgrade to pro... The riders behind the fast group cat 1 need to just step on it and do there best. Compare how the fast cat 1 times would rank in the pro class and they wouldnt make it to the pro class podium. (If they were a case could be made to move up, nobody wants to be yelled at as a "sandbagger" when they collect the free shwag and tires).
i suspect the lack of age groupings in the pro category is one of the reasons there's no mandate for cat1 riders to move up.
 

intensified

Monkey
Mar 31, 2004
519
6
Canton,Ma
True jK, I guess for another thread another time,,, the question of "if this new format of cat 1,2,3 is it the best?" Bumping that semi pro category gave a lot of great benefits away ; stepping stone for the pro class, rid the expert class of "sandbastards", and no need for a vet pro class (thats been debated if its needed).

i
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
True jK, I guess for another thread another time,,, the question of "if this new format of cat 1,2,3 is it the best?" Bumping that semi pro category gave a lot of great benefits; stepping stone for the pro class, rid the expert class of "sandbastards", and no need for a vet pro class (thats been debated if its needed).
the categories are fine. i think if they did away with the excessive age brackets would be an improvement.

jr: 18 and under
sr: 19-39
masters: 40+ (maybe 45+?)

or some variation of that.
 

intensified

Monkey
Mar 31, 2004
519
6
Canton,Ma
the categories are fine. i think if they did away with the excessive age brackets would be an improvement.

jr: 18 and under
sr: 19-39
masters: 40+ (maybe 45+?)

or some variation of that.
It would be nice to see larger fields racing against each other again!! The idea of racing a field of 25 to 30+ riders instead of 10 to 15 riders would make for better prizes as well as competition.
 

v-10dh

Chimp
Mar 15, 2009
19
0
Where does the winner of the 30-39 cat 1 class go? It's either sandbag cat 1 or get smoked in pro
 

PArider29

Monkey
Jan 20, 2010
131
0
back to NC
It would be nice to see larger fields racing against each other again!! The idea of racing a field of 25 to 30+ riders instead of 10 to 15 riders would make for better prizes as well as competition.

Then you get the guys complaining there are two many racers to get on the podium...Look at the GES they are adding a 50 Plus category because 3 old guys were pissed they could never get on the podium because of the fast 40 somethings....

you can't please everyone , you just need to do your best and hope the people who really care about riding their bikes and racing with friends show up.....remember in the words of a roadie friend of mine " we are all just softball players with expensive aluminum or (carbon) bats" in other words we can't take ourselves to seriously ...
 

intensified

Monkey
Mar 31, 2004
519
6
Canton,Ma
id like to hope no one complains that there are too many racers attending an event. i say the more, the merrier.
Agreed!!
WAAAAay more of a rush racing more people!!
What jK mentioned is the only way I see you could double the size of the fields (just dont do that 45+class).
It sure gets tricky with all the folks concerned about series points etc. etc. to try mixing it up occasionally.
 

schwaaa31

Turbo Monkey
Jul 30, 2002
1,431
1,018
Clinton Massachusetts
Great job on the schedule George. Lots of great venues. I'm pumped to see Jiminy on there. They've got great trails, and a great base area. I think people that have never been there will be pretty surprised. I'll probably end up divorced by the end of the season with all these good races, but I think it'll be worth it.
 

jnooth

Monkey
Sep 19, 2008
384
1
Vermont Country
in response to a bunch of posts about sandbagging. their are a ton of riders sandbagging cat 3 and cat 2. the cat 1 class is a bit different because of the larger jump from cat 1 to pro. I raced cat 1 last year and finished in the top 2 or 3 at most races but those same times in pro class are mid pack at best with a few acceptions. the guys placing in the top 2 or three in the lower classes would still be in the front end of the pack in the next class up.

I have always been one to move up when results start showing that I should. winning the class i currently ride in was never enough for me. I always saw it as "great i beat all these guys but still got smoked by all those guys"

I did make the move to Pro this year and for me, I know that I will struggle mid pack in the pro class but to me thats more satisfying than going for a podium in the next class down every race.