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2010 Marzocchi 888 Evo tuning thread

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Hacktastic, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. Hacktastic Active Member

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    As I suggested in the other thread, someone should start a separate thread dedicated just to tuning this fork. So here it is. This applies to springrates, shimstacks, oil viscosities/heights, and other voodoo to make a fork more better. In similar fashion to the Sunday thread, I'll update this original post with pertinent information, links, etc as it becomes available. It will be easy for everyone including new owners, and it will be good reference for me too. Let's keep the discussion strictly about tuning so there's not a ton of stuff to wade through.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here's the basic stock stuff:

    Springrate/numerical rate/rider weight range
    SOFT / 4.4 N/mm / --
    STOCK / 5.5 N/mm / <200# (30% sag, 67kg/147# rider)
    FIRM / 6.5 N/mm / --
    EXTRA FIRM / 7.7 N/mm / --
    (I do know that there are 4 available)

    Oil
    Stock oil should still be Spectro 7.5 (26.10 cSt @ 40C)
    300cc/mL in the damper side for the regular Evo
    320cc/mL in the damper side for the Evo Ti to compensate for the tapered stanchion volume
    80cc/mL in the spring side.

    Valving

    Base Valve stock setting(unconfirmed):
    All 8mm ID x .15mm thickness
    20mm
    19mm
    18mm
    17mm
    16mm

    Total stack height affects compression needle range
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
    #1
  2. EVRAC Member

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    Great thread.

    I had not heard about multiple spring weights. Where did you see this?

    Are there really no dealer service instructions or anything published for this fork?
    I doubt the oil heights will be the same as the internals are quite different.

    Found a little review here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=567359
    #2
  3. Hacktastic Active Member

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    The internals are different, but they are still open cartridge in the same chassis. I can't imagine the total volume of the damper changed noticeably, or the depth of that volume adjust piston. Will find out for sure though.

    Marzocchi typically has rebuild instructions available to dealers online. I'll try to get a copy and see what it specs, if it's available yet.

    I got the 4 spring weights info from their sales rep. They also say that the stock spring should be good for someone up to 200#. I gotta admit the range of spring preload adjustment on it is HUGE, but I'd still rather go with a stiffer spring and less preload if I had the option. Nice to have there as a band-aid fix if you should ever need it.

    The initial stroke on this fork is just insane though...it just makes little junk disappear.

    I noticed another thing when I had the lower crown off. The damper sides on both the forks we installed today want to suck down a little bit from full extension - inch and a half about. It looks like they closed off the damper side of the fork just short of being topped out. That could serve two purposes: one being a top out "cushion" of negative air pressure anticipating that riders will be running spring preload, and to make the initial stroke smoother. When bolted up in the crowns, it is not enough downforce to make the spring side compress at all.
    #3
  4. gemini2k Active Member

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    This weekend, on your birthday no less, when youre not looking, I'm going to open your damper top cap, and drop a duece in there. That'll teach you to be a parts whore.
    #4
  5. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Well this thread got fouled in no time. I suppose that's what I get for my lone legitimate posting on here. Only fair I guess...
    #5
  6. JohnnyC Member

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    I run the stock spring, there are 2 heavier ones and one softer

    stock -5.5N/mm- 30% sag- 67kg

    Stock oil is 7.5wt as always, 300ml in the damper, 80ml in the spring side

    Standard valving is from memory-

    20mm x1
    19mm x1
    18mm x1
    17mm x1
    16mm x1

    All 0.2mm thick, 8mm ID

    The 2 heavier springs are 6.5 and 7.7 N/mm, the softer is 4.4 n/mm


    So far the stock settings all feel pretty good for me but the rear end of my bike is a little stiff at the mo so if I change that it may change the balance of the bike a little bit.

    I hope everyone can handle my metric measurements :p
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  7. leprechaun New Member

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    If you're sure the shims are 0.2mm thick then there is the opportunity to put thinner shims in, and put a larger stack, and/or a 2 stage stack easily.

    Can you verify?
    #7
  8. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Info up top updated - thanks JohnnyC!

    Got a ride in on the fork today, as did my heavier friend with the preload cranked down. I'm 170# and he's 230#. Honestly, it feels DAMN good out of the box. Crazy smooth, opens up nicely at speed, and ZERO bushing bind if the bike is leaned over. Really odd feeling on flat corners where it still articulates perfect.

    For anyone wondering, the bushings are tight as hell on these. I'm hoping they stay that way.

    I ended up 6 clicks in on preload, 4 clicks in on compression, 0 in on progression, and was playing with the rebound a whole lot and will continue to do so. No point in recording it just yet.

    The guy who is 230# with the stock spring found a good setup with the preload full in, progression adjustment 6 clicks out from full-in, compression 6 clicks in, and rebound 13 clicks in.
    #8
  9. dilzy New Member

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    Is it easy to remove the rebound piston on these things?

    Oh and do they come with more than one spring, or can you specify the spring when ordering?
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  10. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Haven't heard anything about it coming with other springs. You could probably ask for another spring if you were ordering from Zoke or somewhere that had springs in stock.

    I would imagine the rebound piston/rod would come out the bottom of the cartridge once the whole top cap/air piston assembly was taken down.
    #10
  11. Hacktastic Active Member

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    I'd also like to find out if the total stack height of the shimstack is critical to the function of the adjuster needle.
    #11
  12. dilzy New Member

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    If the LS needle has enough extra thread, it will still bottom on the piston seat. Be nice if there was enough extra adjustment room for 2mm of stack.
    #12
  13. JohnnyC Member

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    Yeah it doesn't seem to cause any problems if you go a bit thicker, the needle will still bottom on the piston bolt but I'm not sure how far it can go. Going to a thinner stack is no problem, just add some 11mm spacer shims on the end
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  14. Hacktastic Active Member

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    So the total shimstack height DOES affect the compression adjusters range, correct?

    At some point that total stack height of shims/washers between the valve body, piston, and bolt in mm and total shims would be useful.
    #14
  15. JohnnyC Member

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    Yeah although I don't think it would have any practical effect on adjustment range, if you are adding shims to the stack but running the adjuster wide open then you didn't need the extra shims. As long as you maintain the same minimum thickness if you are making a "softer" shim stack then it will be fine.

    I'll have my own fork apart in the next few weeks, I'll remember to take more measurements then.
    #15
  16. dilzy New Member

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    Whats the word from Marzocchi as to whether they'll warrantee the consumer fiddling with the base valve? They seem a bit touchy about people working on their own forks, even if it's designed as such.
    #16
  17. JohnnyC Member

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    Well if an end user attempts to work on a fork and the fork fails, it is a fair assumption that the fork failed because of a mistake they made rather that a manufacturing fault so no warranty. Just use your common sense and it won't be a problem.


    I just thought I should point out that the Evo TI fork has more oil then the standard Evo, 320cc to be precise
    #17
  18. Hacktastic Active Member

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    More oil in the damper leg I assume? Does it come with some negative air set up in it as well?
    #18
  19. DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    How are the adjusters on this bad boy? Detented? How many clicks form full open to full closed ETC.... Would be very interested to know this.
    #19
  20. ucsbMTBmember New Member

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    finally a dedicated thread. my evo ti is on the way from taiwan and should be with zocchi in valencia in a month, cant wait
    #20
  21. Hacktastic Active Member

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    All are detented. I'll get a range count.

    I'm guessing you're Veselin's (aka Weasel Greasers) friend with the DHR?
    #21
  22. eater Member

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    my ebay dealer said to me yesterday that marzocchi USA rollout the 888 rc3 evo ti next week!
    #22
  23. JohnnyC Member

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    Yup the damper needs more oil since the bottom of the tapered legs displace less oil. Apart from the bottom end of the cartridge, the damper leg is pretty much the same as 09 (only other change is the alloy tube that is part of the progression adjustment has material machined out of it) so I think they are just assembled while compressed halfway.
    #23
  24. Hacktastic Active Member

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  25. dilzy New Member

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    Do they have that zero low speed damping feel off the top that zokes in 07 had?
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  26. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Basically, but even more magnified. The bushing smoothness is like nothing I've ever felt before. The harder you hit stuff the more they hold you up it seems (as long as you don't have your adjuster wound all the way out).
    #26
  27. dilzy New Member

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    I mean if you want can you have a good amount of lsc right off the top? I'm not a fan of that "slack" space that my 07's have after a long run.
    #27
  28. JohnnyC Member

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    Sure can. The adjuster has about 9 clicks and if you need to go any further then its time to change the shim stack
    #28
  29. gemini2k Active Member

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    eh, rode one of those new evo things this weekend, I'd still take an 08 or 08 888 rc3 over it. A bit smoother, and I prefer the damper feel a bit more. Better on the small and medium/square edge bumps.
    #29
  30. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Said the toolbag who basically dry-humped my Evo 888 and now owns one as of today...
    #30
  31. gemini2k Active Member

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    lies, all lies, and slander. Well actually libel in this case I suppose. There is evidence to support the fact that hacktastic is a sexual predator fyi. Don't trust what he says.
    #31
  32. Hacktastic Active Member

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    If I really wanted to I could furnish a receipt. Don't listen to this bag of ass.
    #32
  33. ucsbMTBmember New Member

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    you would be correct. however he knows two of us with dhr's. Our forks came today though. look amazing. my evo ti came without the gold compression knob though lol. calling zocchi tommorow. initial impressions are that zocchi is back on top of their game
    #33
  34. gemini2k Active Member

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    except the non-Ni stanchions are smoother :'(. What a crazy mixed up world. How'd mine look? I'm gonna go grab it from vessypoo tomorrow.
    #34
  35. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Something worth noting here I guess, and that is that the gold knob on the bottom actually just snaps off. No set screw or anything holding it on. Take a second look through the box.

    The other nice thing about this fork is that if you bash the adjuster cap, it's just the brass adjuster shaft that needs replacing in the base valve, and not an entire damper like previous 888's or 40's.
    #35
  36. ucsbMTBmember New Member

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    yeah i checked the box. there is nothing there. everything was there except for the knob. the oring and everything were there. i find it interesting that the knob isnt held on by a screw as the brass fitting at the bottom is threaded
    #36
  37. Hacktastic Active Member

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    It snaps on fairly tight. You gotta work a bit to remove it.
    #37
  38. ucsbMTBmember New Member

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    oh. yeah its not in the box. i figure it would take quite a bit for it to come off during shipping
    #38
  39. ucsbMTBmember New Member

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    yours is perfect just as vesselins was. im mounting mine up tonight.
    #39
  40. Jm_ Active Member

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    So does this actually have a real LSC adjuster? I know you are saying it's controlled by a needle valve, but it doesn't limit the total flow does it? Increasing the compression on my 888 RC3 would turn it into a jackhammer, as it affected the entire compression curve (so it was friggin useless). In contrast to the earlier posts asking about the "ultra-smooth" intial stroke, I'd like something I can dial in with LSC without turning it into a jackhammer when I open up during the high-speed stuff. Does the LSC work like before (where wasn't really LSC) or is it really what people are calling it?
    #40