Jesus - Fact or Fiction

[The Toninator]

real?

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/world/1627195

[Jesus]

I vote fiction.

[Tweek]

The story doesn't debate whether Jesus is fact or fiction, but whether the ossuary is authentic. There are plenty of non-Christian sources that already verify that there was in fact a Jesus of Nazareth who existed on Earth in the 1st Century.

[Jesus]

I am a little confused. The story is about the authenticity of the ossuary. But the topic is Jesus fact or fiction. What is the topic?

I am not being sarcastic, just confused.

[Silver]

I think that Jesus should be able to figure that out for himself. Fraud!!!

[fourgivn1]

Fact. Even the most rabid atheists will not really argue whether or not Jesus existed because there is MUCH more evidence for his existence than pretty much for any other person in history. They just prefer to attack his divinity.

[TickTock]

Guy down my street named jesus died about a week ago. doesnt mean he was the son of god. Just a guy named jesus. who died.

just because there are sketchy records of some guy who lived 2000 years ago and shared the same name as probably thousands of people at the time doesnt mean I am going to start going to church or thanking him every time something mildly decent happens and praying to him every time something mildly bad happens.

If it makes people feel better to believe that there really was a jesus who was the son of god 2000 years ago, then whoop de do, im happy for them. As long as i can belive what I want without someone telling me I am going to hell for it, then its all good.

three hours spend in church praying or three hours spent on some sweet singletrack....which is enjoying the world (created by god or not) in a more proper way? dont ask me....





...but i rode this morning.

[fourgivn1]

25000 plus manuscripts written by people (Christian and non-Christian) who lived in his day about Him isn't what I'd call sketchy. And that's not all of it.

Like I said, the argument wasn't whether or not He lived. Almost no one will argue that He DIDN'T live. The furthest I've heard my atheist friends go is to say "It's 'more probable' that he lived." The argument is 'whether or not he was divine.'

As far as going to church or riding, I'd rather go to church on Sunday, but I'm not going to condemn those who don't. To each his own.

[TickTock]

Yeah I have no doubt that there was someone named jesus who lived at that time in that area. Odds are there certainly was.

I am sure we could find 25,000 manuscripts that claimed the world was flat, as well. Doesnt mean it is true. Thats what I meant by sketchy. I just meant as far as people's claims of divine actions and miracles, we are talking about some fairly uninformed (by today's standards) audiences whom witnessed it all.

no doubt back then david copperfield could have passed as the son of god by making things disappear and using some slight of hand, and every day i see people healed of horrible diseases on the television church shows.

The way I always have looked at it is this:

If the world's premier scientist came on the tv and said he saw some guy walk on water, I wouldn't belive him, so why should I believe the statements of people from 2000 years ago who had no knowledge whatsoever of science? Just because for 2000 years other people have believed it?

They all said the world was flat, as well.

imho,
Miracles=flat world=explaining difficult events by creating a non-supportable answer

science=galileo=explaining difficult ideas by the most likely answer

I dont know what that has to do with this discussion, and I dont want to offend anyone but my opinion is that jesus may have existed, but he was at best a charismatic leader with some tricks up his sleeve whose cult went mainstream.

That doesnt make christianity's tenets wrong or harmful at all, though. As long as people are good to one another and strive to live a life in which others follow by your example rather than preaching, then who really cares at the end who was right?

[fourgivn1]

No offense taken. Have you actually studied what non-Christians laughingly label as 'evidence' supporting it? I'll be the first to admit that loads of people who have no clue what it is based on, and a lot of shoddy/incomplete evidence, don't help the case. And I do not mean to offend. By study, I don't mean look over. I mean actually research, whether it's just gathering data on the internet or actually hardcore researching.

But there is a lot more than just those manuscripts, as I said. I will easily say that in the end, there WILL NEVER be 100% proof for Christianity. Maybe not even 50%. It is my belief that this is the way God wants it - after all, if there was 100% proof, there'd be no reason for faith, and it wouldn't be a personal decision...it would be more along the lines of 'the thing to do.' My only real point is that while there will never be 100% proof, there is A LOT more evidence than people realize, enough to get one to the point that they have to make a decision which way to lean. I just lean towards Christianity, is all.

As far as science goes, a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that science arose out of a desire to disprove religion/belief sets. Even atheistic scientists (a few of whom I actually chat with on another board) deny this...according to them, it is simply a desire to understand the world in which we live, and THEY are the ones who point out that if anything, if God exists (to them), He'd want them to understand how the world works to better grasp His magnificence.

[Tenchiro]

Here is the problem I have with Christianity.

If everything the christian bible says is true, why would you want to worship a "god" that created a place like hell, and caused the eternal torment of a countless amount of souls? That is what I don't understand. Especially when the general belief is that god is considered to be omniscient, and would have known before he created anything what would eventually happen and still chose to go ahead with his plans.

Sounds like a pretty f*cked up thing to do, to the people you created and care for...

[Skookum]

What i'd like to know is if any religous person can recite an answer to this question without pulling up text from a source and perhaps take a chance and give your own personal perspective, and not just expound on what has been written.

[Triphop]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Here is the problem I have with Christianity.

If everything the christian bible says is true, why would you want to worship a "god" that created a place like hell, and caused the eternal torment of a countless amount of souls? That is what I don't understand. Especially when the general belief is that god is considered to be omniscient, and would have known before he created anything what would eventually happen and still chose to go ahead with his plans.

Sounds like a pretty f*cked up thing to do, to the people you created and care for...

"If everything the christian bible says is true, why would you want to worship a "god" that created a place like hell..."
-He also created a place called heaven.

"...and caused the eternal torment of a countless amount of souls?"
-He didn't cause the eternal torment of anyone, people choose their own paths.

As for the omniscient comment...to what extent His omniscience extends is a highly debated topic...however, a simple answer is that He wanted to create a being that was capable of having a relationship with Him...a being that was capable of loving, and since love is a choice...he created humans as free thinking, loving beings...to truly love, one must choose to do so. With this comes the ability for us to choose not to love, and choose to do things which may cause others harm. So, the potential for hate is equal to the potential for love. Does that make sense? Would it be better for Him to have created us, and not have given us freedom to choose?

Personally, I don't think that God knows everything that will happen.

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Triphop


"If everything the christian bible says is true, why would you want to worship a "god" that created a place like hell..."
-He also created a place called heaven.

"...and caused the eternal torment of a countless amount of souls?"
-He didn't cause the eternal torment of anyone, people choose their own paths.

As for the omniscient comment...to what extent His omniscience extends is a highly debated topic...however, a simple answer is that He wanted to create a being that was capable of having a relationship with Him...a being that was capable of loving, and since love is a choice...he created humans as free thinking, loving beings...to truly love, one must choose to do so. With this comes the ability for us to choose not to love, and choose to do things which may cause others harm. So, the potential for hate is equal to the potential for love. Does that make sense? Would it be better for Him to have created us, and not have given us freedom to choose?

Personally, I don't think that God knows everything that will happen.

So then....God is not the all powerful being claimed in the bible?
All is possible through Christ except knowing the future becuase he doesnt know it himself?
The statement that a being can do "anything" is illogical. We've all heard the "can god create a rock too big for himself to lift thing"

I believe in a supreme being, although not the one portrayed specifically in the bible. I sort of view god as the personification of nature and time and emotion.

[Jesus]

The way I see it, once we realize that we are not significant. When we die, there is no place to go. We rot in the ground like every other animal on this planet. Our existance means nothing, just like the millions that died before us, then we can truely be happy.

I accepted this fact a long time ago. Along with this acceptance, I also made the choice to be happy. So guess what? I am happy. I have a wonderful life! A great wife, child, parents, brothers, sister, friends, etc...

All religion does is give people an excuse for everything. God blessed me...Satan is out to get me... Get the picture?

We are responsible for everything that happens in our lives. If something in your life sucks, then you only have you to blame and vice versa. There is no God to help us out. You help you out.

Life is wonderful. Why? Because I made it wonderul. Not some made-up God.